[Choux]

firmbeliever,

The truth is that Islam as practiced CAUSED the social and cultural deterioration over the last several hundred years. There is *no* hope for most Islamic countries to provide even the minimal needs of its vast populations... jobs, education, social equality, hope, justice... the negative fruits of the dying Islamic cultures and societies are the reason for malcontent, psychopathic Jihadist bombers creating havoc in western countries.

Islamic culture peaked several hundred years ago, and has been dying slowly ever since.
That's just the way it is.

[firmbeliever]

firmbeliever,

The truth is that Islam as practiced CAUSED the social and cultural deterioration over the last several hundred years. There is *no* hope for most Islamic countries to provide even the minimal needs of its vast populations...jobs, education, social equality, hope, justice.....the negative fruits of the dying Islamic cultures and societies are the reason for malcontent, psychopathic Jihadist bombers creating havoc in western countries.

Islamic culture peaked several hundred years ago, and has been dying slowly ever since.
That's just the way it is.

An excerpt from the following book-
"Crisis in the Muslim Mind", AbdulHamid A. AbuSulayman
Translation byYusuf Talal DeLorenzo
The International Institute of Islamic Thought ,Herndon, Virginia USA
--------------------------------------
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/humanrel..._mind/ch6.html
...
If the future of the Ummah of Islam is to depend upon the degree of success it achieves in reforming its methodology, thought, education, and organization, as well as laying the foundations for new Islamic social sciences, then the future of all bewildered and threatened humanity rests on the degree of success achieved by Muslims in presenting a living example of Islamic teachings.

Islam provides humankind with a reason for living, and with an ethical code by which to live. It affords humankind with insight into the fitrah and the dimensions of its universal relationships; with the seen and the unseen, the individual, society, and the universe. Islam provides humankind with the foundations for a stable society, progress, security, and world peace.

Islam protects the institution of the family, upholds the principles of justice, self-sufficiency, personal and collective responsibility, freedom of belief and thought, shura, and the oneness of all humankind in terms of their origins, interests, and destiny. It is this perfect Islamic vision which is capable of treating the ills of modern materialistic society and the dangers it has produced. Certainly, the moral bankruptcy of modern society is no secret to anyone. Under the shadow of materialism, the world is divided into north and south, white and black, rich and poor, overfed and underfed, colonizer and colonized, master and slave. To people today, peace is nothing more than the suppression of their fears about the unleashing of the forces of mass destruction by one or another of the nations, classes, or camps competing for supremacy.

In view of the serious flaws in their societies, the developed nations of the world have never had greater need of Islam. This is because Islam embodies concepts capable of mending those flaws.

These concepts may be summarized in two points:
Islam's Society of Unity

Islamic society stands on the foundations of unity and the concept of brotherhood. As such, it focuses on answering the basic needs of the individual and the interests he/she shares with others in terms of the family, the neighborhood, the nation, and humankind in general. If the materialist powers of the contemporary world stand on the philosophy of confrontation, then the philosophy of Islam, collective security, is the philosophy of tomorrow. Allah says:
O people! Heed your Lord Who created you from a single life and then created from it its mate. Then He scattered from them countless men and women (4:1)
O people! We have created you from male and female and made you peoples and nations in order to know one another. Verily the best among you in the sight of Allah are those who heed Him (49:13)
Among His signs is the creation of the heavens and earth, and the differences in your tongues and coloring (30:22)
People were no other than a single community, but then they fell to differing (10:19)
Do good to parents, kinsfolk, orphans, the needy, neighbors who are near and who are not so near, the companion by your side, the wayfarer (4:36)
On that account We prescribed for Bani Isra'il that whoever slays another, for other than the crimes of murder or depravity, will be as one who has slain all of humankind (5:32)
Never forget generosity between yourselves (2:237)
Address people with kindness (2:83)
Allah does not forbid you, with regard to those who neither war against you nor drive you from your homes, from dealing kindly with them and justly (60:8)
If you do retaliate, then retaliate in a manner no worse than the way you were attacked. But if you are patient, things will be best for those who are patient (16:126)
Fight in the cause of Allah against those who fight against you; but do not transgress (2:190)
If they cease, then let there be no hostility except against oppressors (2:193)
Let not your dislike for a people cause you to deal unjustly. Deal justly, for that is closer to taqwa (5:8)
When you speak, speak justly, even if a near relative is concerned (6:152)
When you make a decision between people, decide fairly (4:58)
Assist one another in goodness and taqwa, but not in wrongdoing and aggression (5:2)
If two parties among the believers fall to fighting among themselves, then make peace between them. But if one should then break the truce against the other, fight the one breaking the truce until it compiles with Allah's ruling. Then if it complies, make peace between them with justice, and be fair; for Allah loves those who are fair. Certainly, the believers are brothers. So make peace between your two brothers and heed Allah so that you may be shown mercy (49:9-10).
Islam's Cultivation of Knowledge

This point is related to the meaning of knowledge and the ways in which academic research is carried out. Materialist thought is essentially based on rational, empirical, and inductive methods so that it proceeds from experience and knowledge of the real world and extracts from these theories about the laws that govern life and the universe. There is no connection between this thought, however, and revelation. The main reason for this has to do with the Western lack of confidence in any of the major religions. This state of affairs arose when it became common knowledge that the texts of Christianity in particular had been tampered with, and filled with a great deal of unreasonable, contradictory, and incredible material.

When we understand the amazing complexity of the social nature of human beings and the number of factors which may come together at any given time to influence human behavior, we realize how badly the social sciences and the unceasing progression of social theories have floundered.

Moreover, as the consequences of mistakes made in these fields are imperceptible over the short run, and as they are nearly impossible to rectify once they have begun to take effect, we may come to have an even greater appreciation for the distinguishing factor in Islamic knowledge. Islamic knowledge agrees with rationalist, materialist knowledge in relation to the fitrah and natural laws of the universe. Rather than stop at the point of gathering that knowledge, however, Islamic knowledge passes on to cultivate and refine it, and to prevent its shortcomings from having any sort of negative effects on society.

Thus, the Muslim has access to any number of approaches and convictions revealed through divine wahy and dealing with the basic issues of social behavior. It is for this reason that even if a Muslim develops incorrect notions on the subject, wahy is there to correct them. So, at one and the same time, Islamic knowledge puts both empirical and inductive knowledge together with the sources of wahy so that Muslims may deal and transact as they please, so long as their dealings and transactions leave no ill effects on society. Muslims may thus earn their livings and order their family affairs in accordance with their particular circumstances. So the teachings of Islam should not be understood as shackles and chains, but as beacons and landmarks along the way of life.
Allah commands justice, the doing of good, and liberality to kin, and He forbids all shameful deeds, injustice, and rebellion (16:90).

These two points, Islam's society of unity and its cultivation of knowledge shall, if the Muslims understand them well, be very important in the world of tomorrow. Human society will no longer be able, in the future, to pay tomorrow for the mistakes it made today. In the decisive battles of history the numbers of dead rarely exceeded a few hundred persons, and nearby nations remained relatively unaffected when their neighbors fell to fighting. Nowadays, however, the whole world is in danger of becoming a battlefield.

When humankind realizes its capacity to destroy itself and the planet on which it lives, then it will realize its need for decisive regulations as prescribed by wahy in the teachings of the Qur'an and the Sunnah. Only by understanding this will humankind save itself from falling into the depths of destruction. Nor will its way out be anything other than unity and the search for common interests.

In order to achieve their goals, Muslims need to understand the mission with which they have been entrusted.
Thus have We made you a middlemost nation to be a witness unto humankind (2:143).
--------------------------------------------
Please check the link for the rest of the book.:)
-------------------
http://home.swipnet.se/islam/article...pt-freedom.htm
A link for your reading... :)

[Choux]

firmbeliever,

With all respect, you are in your head and not seeing the reality of the world.
Frankly, I can hardly blame you. I'm sick of all the ignorance, cruelty, greed, murder, war, psychotic violence we are faced with. A fantasy world is a comfortable place some of the time.

[firmbeliever]

firmbeliever,

With all respect, you are in your head and not seeing the reality of the world.
Frankly, I can hardly blame you. I'm sick of all the ignorance, cruelty, greed, murder, war, psychotic violence we are faced with. A fantasy world is a comfortable place some of the time.

Dear choux,
With all my respect,
I believe what I believe to be the truth,and I do not mind you believing otherwise.:)

It may seem to you like a fantasy world that I live in,but I know that it is not.

To you be your beliefs and to me be mine.:)

[carbonite]

Choux
You do not see the wars or the terrorist attacks coming from most of Islam. The most populist Islamic countries are in Asia not the Middle east.

You will also find that these countries are also into science and education rather than keeping folks not knowing anything.

Stay in peace

[paraclete]

I see Muslims as deceived and following a false religion. My reasons for this are; there is no reason to believe the Jewish and Christian Scriptures have been corrupted as Muslims believe. Jesus confirmed the Jewish Scriptures saying they spoke of him, how then can Muslims believe Jesus yet deny the Scriptures he believed in and confirmed? Are they in two minds? The Muslims say Jesus will come again Just as the Christians do, but will Mohammed come again? Not likely! Mohammed was a leader who did not practice what he preached, how can you follow such person? Who was even confused as to where the "revelations" came from. The Quoran contradicts itsself and therefore cannot be reliable as a spiritual quide. There is absolutely no point in following a regime of salvation by works as the Muslims follow, without the attoning sacrifice of Jesus all you have is, as he describled, a righteousness of filthy rags. If Christianity required reform, then it needed to be reformed, but the Muslims threw away the meat and bones and kept the skin and decended into a system of works just like the Jews. There is no freedom in this.

[carbonite]

I see Muslims as deceived and following a false religion. My reasons for this are; there is no reason to believe the Jewish and Christian Scriptures have been corrupted as Muslims believe. Jesus confirmed the Jewish Scriptures saying they spoke of him, how then can Muslims believe Jesus yet deny the Scriptures he believed in and confirmed? Are they in two minds? The Muslims say Jesus will come again Just asthe Christians do, but will Mohammed come again? Not likely! Mohammed was a leader who did not practice what he preached, how can you follow such person? who was even confused as to where the "revelations" came from. The Quoran contradicts itsself and therefore cannot be reliable as a spiritual quide. There is absolutely no point in following a regime of salvation by works as the Muslims follow, without the attoning sacrifice of Jesus all you have is, as he describled, a righteousness of filthy rags. If Christianity required reform, then it needed to be reformed, but the Muslims threw away the meat and bones and kept the skin and decended into a system of works just like the Jews. There is no freedom in this.

Ok maybe I missed something where do the followers of Islam deny the what Jesus (pbuh) teach? Some of them do but not all where the difference is Islam does not believe that Jesus is God. I have never found in my reading of the Bible where Jesus said he was God maybe you can help me out here.

Stay in peace

[Stringer]

Firmbeliever, you may not receive a lot of answers immediately. Wrong as it may be, after 9/11 many Americans (non-Muslim or Islamic) may have generalized a lot of things in their minds and possibly feel resentment.

[NeedKarma]

Choux
You do not see the wars or the terrorist attacks coming from most of Islam. The most populist Islamic countries are in Asia not the Middle east.

You will also find that these countries are also into science and education rather than keeping folks not knowing anything.

Stay in peace

Check this out:
Reporters without borders: The internet's "Black holes" | Ads of the World
Looks like when you have an islamic theocracy the internet gets shut down.

[firmbeliever]

Firmbeliever, you may not receive a lot of answers immediately. Wrong as it may be, after 9/11 many Americans (non-Muslim or Islamic) may have generalized a lot of things in their minds and possibly feel resentment.

Stringer,
That is the very reason I put up this thread,because there are many more muslims around the world who do not wish innocents to die especially when these acts are committed in the name of Islam.
And I wished to clarify as much as I can what Islam is really about and that what the media talks about is only a fraction of muslims (and some do not even follow the correct Islamic principles in the first place).

NK,
About the internet filter thing, we too used to have certain sites blocked, but not because of unislamic content but because of the political opposition.

If you look at Thailand, I have read about a site being banned becaues their king was portrayed in some manner that they did not think was appropriate..?

[firmbeliever]

Firmbeliever, you may not receive a lot of answers immediately. Wrong as it may be, after 9/11 many Americans (non-Muslim or Islamic) may have generalized a lot of things in their minds and possibly feel resentment.

Stringer,
That is the very reason I put up this thread,because there are many more muslims around the world who do not wish innocents to die especially when these acts are committed in the name of Islam.
And I wished to clarify as much as I can what Islam is really about and that what the media talks about is only a fraction of muslims (and some do not even follow the correct Islamic principles in the first place).

NK,
About the internet filter thing, we too used to have certain sites blocked, but not because of unislamic content but because of the political opposition.

If you look at some non Islamic countries, I have read about a site being banned because their king was portrayed in some manner that they did not think was appropriate..?

[Treeny]

My Nephew is now krishna. Is this somewhat like Islam?
Do you believe that we reincarnate and even into animals?
Do you believe that it is a sin to eat any meat?

[firmbeliever]

My Nephew is now krishna. Is this somewhat like Islam?
Do you believe that we reincarnate and even into animals?
Do you believe that it is a sin to eat any meat?

I think we are not similar at all.
Krishna(is actually one of the Gods of Hinduism) and Hindu's believe in many Gods and Goddesses and reincarnation of the Gods among humans.

Muslims believe in only One Almighty,omnipotent God and no incarnations of God whatsoever.We also do not believe in the Almighty having sons or daughters.

About life after death,
We believe that our souls do not die, but all will be resurrected on the Day of Judgement and each will be given his/her due according to their deeds in this world.
We do not believe that our souls or the dead come back into this world we live in,but exist in another place until we are resurrected for judgement.
We do not believe in humans being reborn into this world as animals or otherwise.

We eat meat except for pork(which is prohibited for muslims)
And we also do not eat animals killed in the name of other Gods and Goddesses except Allah.

Hope that was helpful:)

[weasmox]

Hey:)
Honestly I'm living now in an environment that includes muslments and christians. I'm in a country called Lebanon presisly.( some people say it's a arabic country but I duno know about that really) anyway, I deal with muslims all the time. They have different ideas, traditions, way of life... but here muslims and christians are acctually living together and if it weren't for the politics no boday would have ever askd about the other person's religionand we would have all lived in peace!

In this country we believe that everyone has the right to believe everything they would ever want! It's normal to search about religions but it's different when your dealing with them.
A lot of christians wouldn't feel comftorble talking or wtv with a muslim cz they dn't really know what to tell them or just the way to express what they want. But believe me muslims face the same problems: they also duno what to tell u! They wouldn't want to hurt you or pick a fight with you since they duno u!

About the muslims religion, well it's much different from the Christian but they both believe in God and practice but the thing is that they are more attached to they'r religion than the christians ( don't take it wrong o.k?) I really duno why they are that attched, actually I'm still trying to know y!:p

If you think that the muslim religion is good well I don't desagree but you should read more about it before really saying that cz I don't think you know all about it. Neither do I but whatevr... :) I hope I helped you in some way to imagine living in a world with 2 different religions struggling for power:)

Leila

[bushg]

Since krishna was mentioned I was in a store the other day and there was a young man. He was looking through books beside of me. He kept chanting something. I was not sure what, but krishna was one of the words that he kept saying over and over. Is this something that these members do. Lol I did not know if I should be frightened and move or just continue to try and look trhough the books. Also he was a little loud about it an said the chant very fast.

[firmbeliever]

hey:)
honestly i m living now in an enviroment that includes muslments and christians. I m in a country called Lebanon presisly.( some ppl say it's a arabic country but i duno know abt that really) anyways, i deal with muslims all the time. They have diffrent ideas, traditions, way of life... but here muslims and christians are acctually living together and if it werent for the politics no boday would have ever askd about the other person's religionand we would have all lived in peace!!

in this country we believe that everyone has the right to believe everything they would ever want! it's normal to search about religions but it's diffrent when ur dealing with them.
Alot of christians wouldn't feel comftorble talkin or wtv with a muslim cz they dn't really know what to tell them or just the way to express what they want. But believe me muslims face the same problems: they also duno what to tell u! they wouldn't want to hurt u or pick a fight with u since they duno u!

about the muslims religion, well it's much diffrent from the Christian but they both believe in God and practice but the thing is that they are more attached to they'r religion than the christians ( don't take it wrong o.k?) i really duno y they r that attched, actually i m still tryin to know y!:p

if u think that the muslim religion is good well i dnt desagree but u should read more about it b4 really saying that cz i don't think u know all about it. neither do i but whatevr...:) i hope i helped u in some way to imagine living in a world with 2 diffrent religions struggling for power:)

Leila

Salaam Leila,

Thank you for sharing your experience.

I am a muslim, so I know the muslim side,but its nice to hear from a Lebanese especially since many hear only what is said on the media about Lebanon.

Keep sharing...

[firmbeliever]

Since krishna was mentioned I was in a store the other day and there was a young man. He was looking through books beside of me. He kept chanting something. I was not sure what, but krishna was one of the words that he kept saying over and over. Is this something that these members do. lol I did not know if I should be frightened and move or just continue to try and look trhough the books. Also he was a little loud about it an said the chant very fast.

I think he might be saying "Haarey Ram, Haarey Krishna"(that is not the right spelling but it makes it easier to pronounce.
I think that is like saying "Hail" God as Ram and Krishna are both Gods of Hinduism and he must be sort of meditating on the names.

[bushg]

Oh, I thought it was harry, I feel so silly I thought it was a cult, like that jones man and he was worshipping a real live human person. I was feeling really sorry for this young man.

[firmbeliever]

oh, I thought it was harry, I feel so silly I thought it was a cult, like that jones man and he was worshipping a real live human person. I was feeling really sorry for this young man.

I think that Ram and Krishna are believed to have been in this world as human incarnations by Hindu followers.
So you are not far off in thinking they worship a human.

[NeedKarma]

carbonite agrees: True, but this also happens in some areas when Christians run things

I can't think of one to be honest. But christians or muslims shouldn't be 'running things'. The governing of a nation should not involve religion. That way I can vote for the political party/candidate of my choice I like and my neighbour and I are free to practice different religions.