[xx pretty girl xx]

I agree but disagree at the same time I don't believe being gay is a choice but they do have the choice whether to show their affections & their actions

[michealb]

The question of gay being natural is an interesting question. Many animals show gay behavior but also some animals as high up as reptiles, when faced with a single sex environment can change their gender to reproduce. So maybe gay behavior is something ancient in our DNA. Gene therapy has been used on rams that show gay behavior to make them straight. So assuming that genetherapy would work in humans should we do it at birth if they show the gene exists? Given the fact that animals show the same behavior and that there at one point in time there probably was an advantage in doing so. I would have to conclude that some people being gay is a natural part of life. Whether we should use medical knowledge to get change gay people I don't think that is something I can decide maybe when a child grows up he or she can make the choice for themselves but it would be a hard choice for anyone to make I'm sure.

[macksmom]

The gay person/s are never to be treated cruely because they choose to be gay. I personally am a Christian and would never be gay. Why? Because I believe it to be wrong and a sin against the gay persons own body and their sexual partner but most important against God.

Number one... you would never be gay? It's not a choice. I suppose acting on your feelings would be a choice, but suppressing your natural feelings will cause more damage than good.

You response doesn't really address the question... the question was "is being gay a choice" not was it right in "gods" eyes, not what it says in the bible... the only point in your response that touched on the question was stating that god created homosexuals as well as heterosexuals.

As my original response showed... there have been overwhelming research showing that there is a genetic cause for homosexuality.

I agree that homosexuals should be harmed, or treated cruely, but the fact is that they are... and its from the ignorance that people think they choose to be gay, when it fact they were just born that way.

[macksmom]

Queers are being promoted on television, because the people that control television want to destroy society. When you create a queer person then one person from the opposite sex has lost a mate and this will create more queers for that sex. In America and western European countries it seems have the females are lesbians, but in Eastern European countries it's not so bad. The television has influenced our society and is wrecking havoc on it. Fifty years ago you never heard of queers. You might know of someone who acted strnage and you stayed away from them. But today it is promoted by the communist who control the media.

This is a completely uneducated answer!

"Fifty years ago you never heard of queers"??

Have you ever read works by Plato, Socrates, Sappho etc.? Homosexuality have been practiced in ancient times. There are many historical painting, artwork, etc that depict two men together. The word "lesbian" comes from ancient Greece, the island of Lesbos, where many women travelled to and lived and had homosexual realationships.

You can simply 'google' homosexuality and see how obviously uninformed you are.

[Hope12]

Number one....you would never be gay? It's not a choice. I suppose acting on your feelings would be a choice, but supressing your natural feelings will cause more damage than good.

You response doesn't really address the question....the question was "is being gay a choice" not was it right in "gods" eyes, not what it says in the bible....the only point in your response that touched on the question was stating that god created homosexuals as well as heterosexuals.

As my original response showed...there have been overwhelming research showing that there is a genetic cause for homosexuality.

I agree that homosexuals should be harmed, or treated cruely, but the fact is that they are...and its from the ignorance that people think they choose to be gay, when it fact they were just born that way.

Hello Macksmom,

In today’s modern world there at those who claim homosexuals are that they can not change. What though are the facts?

So here is my answer to the posted question: “"is being gay a choice?” Yes is certainly is. When giving your answers you left out the completed comments from those studies this one was taken from:
“Sex and the Brain” Discover, March 1994, Vol. 15, No. 3, p. 64
“Born or Bred?” Newsweek, February 24, 1992, Vol. 119, no. 8, p. 46.

I quote what study you gave in your original post with the study: “IN 1991 neuroscientist Simon LeVay studied brain cadavers. The hypothalamus which governs sexual behavior showed marking similarities in women and gay men, while heterosexual mens hypothalamus was 3 times bigger. The acutal makeup of the hypothalamus supported the results. Oregan Health Sciences Univeristy replicated the study and found the same results.”


You forgot to give the coments LeVay gave after he completed his work:
LeVay said, upon completing his work:
“It’s important to stress what I didn’t find. I did not prove that homosexuality is genetic, or find a genetic cause for being gay. I didn’t show that gay men are born that way, the most common mistake people make in interpreting my work.”

Some of LeVay’s peers questioned his research, noting that changes in brain structure could be the result of homosexual behavior, rather than the cause. Dr. Kenneth Klivington stated: “There is a body of evidence that shows the brain’s neural networks reconfigure themselves in response to certain experiences. Therefore, the difference in homosexual brain structure may be a result of behavior and environmental conditions.”

You quoted in your original post: “In 1993 Dean Hamer, a geneticist at the National Cancer Institution linked instances of homosexuality to a small stretch of DNA on the X chromosome. His results implied that the trait travel down the maternal side. Hamer scored the linkage with a technical measure that translates to a 99.5% certainity that there is a gene or genes on that particular stretch of the X chromosome that determines homosexuality...there are still more that 100 unidentified genes on that section that are still unidentified so there may be more that one causing gene.”

My understanding was not as yours was and what I found in Dean Hammer’s report and his concluding words different then what you quote:

Here is what I found taken from: Scientific American, November 1995.
“The Personality Genes,” Time, April 27, 1998, Vol.151, no. 16, p. 60.
“Research Points Toward a Gay Gene,” The Wall Street Journal, July 16, 1993, p. B1.
Dr. Hamer, upon completing his study, wrote: “These genes do not cause people to become homosexuals…the biology of personality is much more complicated than that.”
My findings seem to show different facts than yours did. Like the Simon LeVay study, it is hard to determine whether the changes in brain structure were the result of homosexual behavior, or the cause.

George Ebers of the University of Western Ontario attempted to replicate Hamers study. He examined fifty-two pairs of gay brothers and found no connection between the pattern of the Xq28 and the homosexuality of his subjects.11

What I find the most interesting about this particular study is that even after Hamer’s comments to the contrary, a few media outlets ran stories with headlines suggesting that a gay-gene had been unmistakably discovered. The Wall Street Journal’s headline read Research Points Toward a Gay Gene,13 and the Associated Press wrote Study Finds Genetic Link to Homosexuality.1

I quote you again in from your original post: “Studies on twins, brain anatomy, and DNA have uncovered remarkable results supporting the genetic cause of homosexuality. Studies on the genetic theory started in the 1800's. In 1952 German geneticist Franz Kallman studied gay twins, followed by support in 1991 by psychologist Michael Bailey and psychiarist Richard Pilliard who studied twins as well. The results showed the gentic link commonality between gay twins and siblings.”

Now here is the reports on those studies that you quote above as I have read them taken from “Born or Bred?” Newsweek, February 24, 1992, Vol. 119, no. 8, p. 46.
J. Michael-Bailey and Richard Pillard published a study in the Archives of General Psychiatry in December of 1991 on the prevalence of homosexuality among twins.

They studied 56 pairs of identical twins, where at least one brother was homosexual, and found that 29 of them (52 percent) were both homosexual. They also found that 12 of 54 pairs of fraternal twins (22 percent) were both homosexual and 6 out of 57 pairs of adopted brothers (11 percent) were both homosexual. Bailey and Pillard, therefore, concluded that homosexuality has a genetic cause.

As we mentioned above, environmental factors can can impact sexual development. Therefore it would be impossible for Dr. Bailey and Dr. Pillard to determine whether it was genetics or environment that caused the twins’ homosexuality unless the twins were separated. In fact, biologist Anne Fausto-Stirling of Brown University stated: “In order for such a study to be at all meaningful, you’d have to look at twins raised apart.”8
Furthermore, if it was, in fact, genes and not environment which caused the twins homosexuality, one would expect 100% of identical twins to both be homosexual, instead of 52%.

Dr. Bailey seemed to agree, he wrote:

There must be something in the environment to yield the discordant twins.9
The most powerful refutation of this study, however, is the researcher’s inability to replicate his own work. In a study released in March of 2000, Dr. Bailey and a group of his colleagues used an Australian population of twins to conduct a similar twin study with even lower concordance numbers. The researchers studied the largest carefully ascertained twin sample ever assembled for such a study. They found that, for women, only 24% were both homosexual and, of the men they studied, only 20% were both homosexual.

Upon completing this study the researchers said, “Consistent with several studies of siblings, we found that sexual orientation is familial. In contrast to most prior twin studies of sexual orientation, however, ours did not provide statistically significant support for the importance of genetic factors for that trait. This does not mean that our results support heritability estimates of zero, though our results do not exclude them either.”

Dr. Warren Throckmorton, an associate professor of psychology at Grove City College who has done research on homosexuality, was taken aback by Bailey’s own admission that genetics may have no impact on sexual orientation at all. He said, “Heritability near zero? This is a pretty amazing statement! And one that no one has heard in the popular media.”

In conclusion here is what the American Psychological Association asserts that: “There are numerous theories about the origins of a person's sexual orientation; most scientists today agree that sexual orientation is most likely the result of a complex interaction of environmental, family and psychological events at a young age.”

And the American Psychiatric Association wrote:
“Currently there is a renewed interest in searching for biological etiologies for homosexuality. However, to date there are no replicated scientific studies supporting any specific biological etiology for homosexuality.
Whatever the case, we know from the personal testimonies of thousands that homosexuality is a changeable condition. Stanton Jones, who is Chair of Psychology at Wheaton College states: “Every secular study of change has shown some success rate...”

The above state quotes were taken from:
The APA's booklet, "Answers to Your Questions About Sexual Orientation and Homosexuality."
American Psychiatric Association Fact Sheet, May 2000.
“The Loving Opposition: Speaking the truth in a climate of hate,” Christianity Today, July 19, 1993, Vol. 37, no. 8, p. 18.

“My definite answer after reading all the facts to the question posted; “Is being gay a choice?” without any doubt yes!
Take care,
Hope12

[goldilox]

I don't know where the gay problem roots from but I personally don't believe that God would actually create someone to be gay... it is not a Godly thing... and I hope some day I can understand what causes it or how it happens... but one thing I would like to know... can a gay guy go straight? Does anyone know of any situations where this has happened... and if so, do you know what made it possible?

[macksmom]

I don't have my intensive research I did on the subject with me but this is from Wikipedia...

"There is evidence of a correlation between sexual orientation and traits that are determined in utero. Williams et al. (2000) found that finger length ratio, a characteristic controlled by prenatal hormones, is different in people of distinct sexual orientations.[1] Another study by McFadden in 1998 found that auditory systems in the brain, another physical trait influenced by prenatal hormones is different in those of differing orientations, likewise the suprachiasmatic nucleus of homosexual men was found by Swaab and Hopffman to be larger in homosexual men than in heterosexual men, [2], the suprachiasmatic nucleus is also known to be larger in men than in women [3]. Gay men have more older brothers on average, a phenomenon known as the fraternal birth order effect. It has been suggested that the greater the number of older male siblings the higher the level of androgen fetuses are exposed to ."

"In a 1991 study, Simon LeVay demonstrated that a tiny clump of neurons of the anterior hypothalamus—which is believed to control sexual behavior and linked to prenatal hormones—was on average more than twice the size in heterosexual men when contrasted to homosexual men. Initially he could not rule out that this may be due to AIDS since all of his homosexual male subjects had died from it before the autopsies were performed. However in 2003 scientists at Oregon State University announced that it replicated his findings in sheep."

Supporting the difference in brain matter/size, among other things between homosexuals and heterosexuals.

"Another issue is the recent finding that even monozygotic twins can be different and here is a mechanism which might account for monozygotic twins being discordant for homosexuality. Gringas and Chen (2001) describe a number of mechanisms which can lead to differences between monozygotic twins, the most relevant here being chorionicity and amniocity.[7] Dichorionic twins potentially have different hormonal environments and receive maternal blood from separate placenta. Monoamniotic twins share a hormonal environment, but can suffer from the 'twin to twin transfusion syndrome' in which one twin is "relatively stuffed with blood and the other exsanguinated".[8] If one twin receives less testosterone and the other more, this could result in different levels of brain masculinisation."

Which helps support why identical twins, although they share 100% of the same genes may have different results.

As far as your statement made by Dr. Throckmorton "Heritability near zero?..." when in fact the quote from that study did not state that... it stated "This does not mean that our results support heritability estimates of zero, though our results do not exclude them either"

"Blanchard and Klassen (1997) reported that each older brother increases the odds of being gay by 33%.[20][21] This is now "one of the most reliable epidemiological variables ever identified in the study of sexual orientation."[22] To explain this finding, it has been proposed that male foetuses provoke a maternal immune reaction that becomes stronger with each successive male foetus. Male foetuses produce HY antigens which are "almost certainly involved in the sexual differentiation of vertebrates." It is this antigen which maternal H-Y antibodies are proposed to both react to and 'remember'. Successive male foetuses are then attacked by H-Y antibodies which somehow decrease the ability of H-Y antigens to perform their usual function in brain masculinisation."

"Bocklandt, Horvath, Vilain and Hamer (2006) reported that some mothers of gay babies have extreme skewing of X chromosome inactivation. Using a sample of 97 mothers of homosexual men and 103 mothers of heterosexual men, the pattern of X inactivation was ascertained from blood assays. 4% of the mothers of straight men showed extreme skewing compared to 13% of the mothers of gay men. Mothers of two or more gay babies had extreme skewing of X inactivation of 23%. This extreme skewing may influence male sexual orientation through the fraternal birth order effect."

"The species is commonly known as the fruit fly, and is one of the most commonly used model organisms in biology, including studies in genetics, physiology and life history evolution."
"The fruitless gene is a Drosophila gene that encodes several transcription factor proteins. It has several promoters, each encoding proteins with a BTB domain and zinc finger motif. Fruitless transcription factors are required for proper development of several body structures, including neurons and cells necessary for fly sexual behavior. Flies with mutations in the fruitless gene display altered sexual behavior, including, most prominently, redirection of normal male courtship behavior towards other males. Recent research has also revealed that males with the mutated version of fruitless fight each other as if they were females"



We can go back and forth here quoting all day long, but the bottomline here is that there is and abundant amount of evidence showing that there is some genetic factor that plays in determining homosexuality. If there wasn't there wouldn't be continuous grants for millions of dollars to find exactly what that is.

I am not saying, however, that life experiences do not play a role... it has been overwhelming stated that there is a combonation of genetic and environmental causes. But if the genetic cause isn't present then the environmental cause would have no effect... and vice versa... simple life experiences do not cause homosexuality alone. It is not a conscience choice of the individual.

"One prominent evangelical leader, Rev. Rob Schenck, who used to advocate reparative therapy, came to believe that homosexuality is not a choice after speaking with scientists, and that conservative Christians need to drop the choice argument in order to continue opposing homosexual sex. He was quoted in the Boston Globe as saying "if it's inevitable that this scientific evidence is coming, we have to be prepared with a loving response. If we don't have one, we won't have any credibility."

[Tuscany]

The bible states that God will love everyone... does that not include gay people?


In my opinion yes it does :)

[rankrank55]

I fully agree Tus!

[Tuscany]

It makes me sad when people hide behind the bible. God loves everyone and the bible is a piece of literary work that can be intepreted differently by anyone who reads it. Lets hope that those that judge so harshly now do not face such harsh words or actionswhen they stand face to face to God.

[sGt HarDKorE]

To me god loves everyone

No matter who you are or what you are.

I think he allows people into heaven whether you believe in him or not. Just because you go to church does not make you a better person. I think it should be based on what you do with your life. Like if you help the poor and such

God forgives everyone.

He doesn't hate you for a sin that you commit

That is what I think god

[gayboy]

To me god loves everyone

No matter who you are or what you are.

I think he allows people into heaven whether you believe in him or not. Just because you go to church does not make you a better person. I think it should be based on what you do with your life. Like if you help the poor and such

God forgives everyone.

He doesnt hate you for a sin that you comit

That is what i think god

I think that you have put it better than anyone else.

[RebelWithACause]

Ok i already know the answer to this one becuase i am gay. I just want to see what others think. There is no way that being gay is a choice. I would have never chosen this for myself. I would have wanted to fit in and be like everyone else. That is what all kids want. I am 18 now and have known i was gay since a very early age (like 10). There is no way this is a choice because at this age i knew nothing about sex.....i just knew that i was attracted to boys.

it's not a choice. I had my first encounter with a girl in the second grade and it just felt right. Just as now it feels right. I'm 19 years old, about to be 20 and it hasn't changed how I feel when I'm with another female. To all the church going people that believe that it is a sin to be anything but straight, tell me why are you making the most high a bias judge? Are we not all made in his image?

[gayboy]

That is exactly how I see it. I had my first encounter with a boy many many years ago. And I have never really been interested in girls. I just could never make myself date one.

[think_pink]

I know a lot of people who are bisexual or gay and there happy
Are you happy with what you are?
If you are , who cares what other people think? Its your personal life
And I agree you can't choose if you want to be gay or straight or bisexual

[gayboy]

You bring up a good point. I am extremely happy with being who I am. If anyone else doesn't like it then that is there proble.

It would just be nice if everyone could accept you for who you are and not for who they don't want you to be.

If that makes any sense.

[think_pink]

you bring up a good point. i am extremely happy with being who i am. if anyone else doesn't like it then that is there proble.

It would just be nice if everyone could accept you for who you are and not for who they don't want you to be.

if that makes any sense.

Yeah it would be nice if people accepted everyone for what they are but some do some don't but who cares about them its your life not theirs :)

[keep_fallin]

Ummm yes being gay is a choice and its kind of weird knowing that your gay at age 10 so I hope you find your answer

[sGt HarDKorE]

Do you have any proof that being gay is a choice? Have you ever been gay and then went straight?

Have you ever heard of a gay guy going straight honestly?

Most people I know that are gay have known as early as 7ish. They may have not known they were gay but they may have had different feelings towards boys.

[Hope12]

Hello Everyone,

No one here is judging nor are they saying God does not love homosexuals. God’s mercy covers over our errors and sins, but does God’s mercy covers over all our sins and is God’s mercy limitless?

Some have been taught that God is all compassionate and loving and that he extends his open arms to everyone, no matter what they do in their life or how they live it. Many churches will say: “that homosexuals are persons made in God’s image and because Jesus died, God’s mercy will cover over that sin.” Does God’s mercy cover someone who persists in practicing such things as homosexuality?

Other churches will say: “If God does not abhor, but rather loves, the homosexual with the nature he was created with us can do no less. And this means that we must accept the homosexual as he is.” Now though, we need to ask ourselves, “Does God accept homosexuals as they are?”

If we are not familiar with what the Bible says or we are a careless reader of the Bible, it might cause some to agree with the above clergy statements. They may even think about Jesus reclining at a table and eating with tax collectors and sinners. But, do you remember what the Pharisees said to Jesus? ‘Why is it that your teacher eats with tax collectors and sinners?’ Hearing them, he said: ‘Persons in health do not need a physician, but the ailing does. Go, then, and learn what this means, “I want mercy, and not sacrifice.” For I came to call, not righteous people, but sinners.’” Matt. 9:10-13.

If we tend to read the Bible casually it would appear that Jesus was approving of the sinners because he associated with them. This also could be misunderstood and that he was counseling the Pharisees for objecting what Jesus was doing. But is this what is really happening hear? Take note, of Jesus’ introductory statement: “Persons in health do not need a physician, but the ailing do.” A discerning person would reason that Jesus was not condoning their sins but he was associating with them so as to cure them of their sins.

In the Sermon on the Mount, Jesus even admonished others by what he said: “Happy are the merciful, since they will be shown mercy.” Matt. 5:7 The fact that Jesus showed mercy, does it means he condoned sin? No, instead Jesus showed that we need to have compassion for the spiritually ill person/s as we would the physically ill. On one occasion a leper caught sight of Jesus and he fell upon his face and begged him, saying: “Lord, if you just want to, you can make me clean.” And so Jesus stretched out his hand and touched him, saying: “I want to. Be made clean.” Immediately the man’s leprosy vanished from him. Sometimes he told the one who was ill simply to pick up his bed and walk. But in other instances he said instead: “Your sins are forgiven you.” Luke 5:12, 13, 20.

The Bible says: “Do not be misled: God is not one to be mocked. For whatever a man is sowing, this he will also reap; because he who is sowing with a view to his flesh will reap corruption from his flesh, but he who is sowing with a view to the spirit will reap everlasting life from the spirit.” Gal. 6:7, 8 There is no doubt that God forgive the sins of all people and he looks with mercy upon all of us, because we are the children of Adam and we were born in sin. Ps.51:5

God tell us at Ezekiel 33:11: “I take delight, not in the death of the wicked one, but in that someone wicked turns back from his way and actually keeps living.” We who sin everyday sometimes take advantage of God’s patience and do not take to heart his warnings. Many millions have used the time God has given man to set matters right as an opportunity to practice all kinds of sinful acts that are contrary to what God has warned us against. God does love all people, but he does not love our sins! 2 Cor. 6:1,9 ; Rom. 1:28-32

I personally do not believe any on this site hate homosexual persons, many though do hate the act of homosexuality. Why? Because God hates it! 2 Cor. 6:9-11.

Sometime we humans take God’s mercy for granted to do what we want to do. That is being independent from God. When we only listen to God’s laws when we agree with them, that doesn’t obligate God to show compassion and mercy forever. The time of God’s forbearance is nearing an end. When it concludes, God’s angelic hosts will enter into their assigned work of execution, and God’s mercy will not cover those who are found still engaged in their lawless acts, who have not turned around and received the mark of true disciples of Jesus Christ. Ezek. 9:5, 6 When that time arrives, will God’s mercy cover all your sins?

Mercifully, Jesus healed both the physically ill and the spiritually sick, though not condoning their sin. When he warned them he did so with love and compassion, not to condone their sin but to help them to reach repentance and turn around to doing things God’s way and not their way.

I have seen gay men and women turn their life around. I know a young man who had feeling for other men and he had mentioned it started when he was very young. He soon learned that this type of lifestyle is disapproved by God and his desire to please God in all things, made him make changes to bring his life style in harmony with God’s ways. He is now happily married to a young women and they have children and he is an elder in our congregation.

I also have a friend who was gay. She was very much attracted to women; in fact she only dated other women. She came to learn about God and what He requires from each one of us, changed her life and married and is now a minister of God. She told me when she was gay; men repulsed her, now she is married to one. Was she truly gay?
Yes, she told me it started when she was about 5 years old. When we talk, I ask her all the time, “What do you think made you gay? Her reply after thinking about it was, “I don’t know, I just never liked boys.” “I then asked if she thought it was a learned lifestyle.” She then looked at me and smiled; “yes, because now I am happy, married to a wonderful man. I could not have done that if I didn’t have the ability to choose to change.” Most of all, she wanted to be pleasing to her creator and that is what helped her.

My closing comment is this: I do not hate homosexuals, some have ended up as my close friends, and I dearly love them. The two mentioned above are two very special people to me. I have deep respect and love for these two people and others who were homosexual and have chosen to change their lifestyle to please their creator. They did not use any excuses to make others except homosexuality as normal or approved by God. They did not use the excuse that people hate them because they are homosexuals.

Most God loving people, do not hate homosexuals but hate their acts of homosexuality. I say it is a choice because people I know who had homosexual tendencies since a very young age, have changed. If it wasn’t a choice, they would not be able to change. When we are born with something it usually stays with us the rest of our life. I have Cerebral Palsy, I don’t like it, but I can’t change it, I was born with it. Some Homosexuals have changed, if it was not a choice, it could never change. How do you explain this?