[stanfortyman]

Here is some very good reading on this, with some good links as well.

Stray Voltage in North Carolina Part 2 of 3

[stanfortyman]

And more...

The Utility is not Always at Fault

[NCPat]

Good morning... I did a search and found this thread. We noticed yesterday (although I think it may have been happening for a few weeks) some electrical voltage in our pool. It is not in all places. It is most noticeable on the metal handrail at the steps leading out of the pool. It is also noticeable completely on the other side of the pool on the "rim" of the pool. This is noticeable whether you touch it while in the pool or out of the pool. (Our pool is a vinyl liner pool... 40,000 gallons). It is also noticeable when reaching your hand/arm into the skimmer to remove leaves, etc... feels like your hand is "going to sleep." It is NOT noticeable on the metal legs of the diving board or on the metal ladder in the deep end of the pool. I thought I was CRAZY over the past few weeks but it became more noticeable yetesday when we had several people in the pool. The pool is 15 years old and we have never had this issue before. However, last summer we did install a new pump and filter. (Pentair Intellifo and Titon II filter). It is a chlorine pool... not saltwater.

We have turned off ALL breakers to the pool... no power to the pump or pool light whatsoever and it STILL does the same thing.

We live in Wilmington, NC. Could you tell me, please, the best way to go about tracing this and getting it fixed? I'm afraid to let others swim in the pool because of potential liability. So I call the pool equipment store? An electrical? Who?

Thanks so much for your help!
Pat

[KISS]

If the stray voltage is there, then presumably you can measure it.

This flow chart should be followed from one of the links.

http://www.mikeholt.com/documents/st...ForUtility.pdf

If you can turn off the main breaker and the shock still happens, get the utility involved. If you can measure it, that may hel get someone out.

It would be nice if you could say, "I have a stray voltage problem with my pool, I have turned off the main breaker to the house and I measure 5 volts AC between a wet me in the pool and the metal part of the strainer and various other places.

[NCPat]

Thanks very much. I do have a voltage meter... just don't know how to use it for A/C power. I used to use it for 12v on a large sailboat. But I will download the directions and figure it out. Our pool is 220, not 110, by the way. I assume that doesn't make a difference?

Thanks again.
Pat

[stanfortyman]

You mean you pump is 240v, maybe some other equipment. The POOL cannot be 240v.

Even if you turn your main off and still get voltage, it may not be the POCO. See the link above.

You will NOT feel 5v. You may measure 5v from the water to a metal object, but measuring the water itself like that is almost useless. The water is not the good of a conductor.
If you get 5v from the water to an object chances are there is more there than that.

[NCPat]

Yes... sorry... the pool pump is 240V as is the Hot Tub pump next to it (completely separate) But they are connected to the same breaker box (separate breakers) outside on the side of the house... plus there are additional breakers in the main breaker box in the house. When ALL are off, we still get the voltage feeling in certain areas in the pool... and not necessarily just around metal (although our pool is vinyl liner so I assume it is surrounded by a metal mesh).

I will read the link in the previous answer and see if I understand. I am not the least bit knowledgeable about this type of thing... only minor experience with 12v systems on a liveaboard sailboat.

Thanks for your response.
Pat

[MJ1]

We have the same problem since we put on a salt system. Problem may have always been there, and the salt water (more conductive), made it more noticeable.
I have shut off all our breakers, and we still notice 1.5 Volts. I can only conclude we are getting stray voltage from the power company line. We have a small leak in the pool (can't find), so I am concluding that in this extremely dry weather, the electricity is looking for a ground, and possibly it is seeking out our leak. I am assuming the short in the motor issue, could not hold true, if we still get voltage, even if the breakers are all shut down. Frustrated, we are waiting for an engineer from the power company to come out to shut power off at the transformer. Any suggestions out there? Pool has been checked, and bonding is OK.

[stanfortyman]

1.5volts you would NEVER feel. It is obviously more, but there is no accurate way to test it.
Sticking the probe in the water and into the earth (or touching concrete is NOT an equivalent test to a touch test.

[MJ1]

Is there a way to accurately test for it? The power company came out yesterday, and saw our reading, and felt it. They did not read anything when they probed the water, and touched the ladder bolt that is grounded.

[MJ1]

One other thing the power company did shut off power from the transformer to our house, and the neighbors, and there was still voltage. Today they plan on coming back to check the neutral? They would have done it yesterday , but they needed 2 guys to do it.

[Stratmando]

Do you have any Solar Panels?
I ran into a problem with customer getting shocked in bath tub, turned out to be Phone Line pinched behind tub? Maybe disconnect Cable, and phone in addition to Electric to see if problem persist.

[MJ1]

No solar panels. Just spoke with phone company, and they are coming out this afternoon to verify their line is not the problem. Power company said "stray voltage" could be coming from anywhere.

[Mikeysal]

NCpat, I also live in Wilmington, NC and just bought a house that has the same problem as you. I was just wondering if you were able to solve the problem.

[jenniferousley]

I live in Eastern Kentucky. We recently installed an inground pool and are experiencing the same problem. Pool installation company, certified electricians, and an engineer from the power company have all been involved in solving this problem, but still no solutions yet. The current is noticeable to touch and reads between 2 and 3 volts on the meter. It seems to get worse after we have been in the pool and is worse in certain areas of the pool. The engineer believes the problem is the build up of static electricity due to the vinyl liner. The current can only be felt when standing on wet concrete and reaching into the pool. What do I do?

[stanfortyman]

Seems lot of folks have the same problem. I suggest you read this whole thread and see the links posted.

Jennifer, if you recently had this pool installed there is no reason you should feel anything. The bonding should have been done to the latest standards.

[MJ1]

Do you have a salt pool? We only started noticing it after we put the salt system on our pool. Prior to that we just used chlorine. Water by itself is not a great conductor, but salt water is a better conductor. We are thinking it could be stray voltage, but we can't find out from where. We've had our power shut off from the pole, and had the phone line shut off, but there is still a small voltage reading. Power company says you will notice stray voltage more, when conditions are very dry, as the electricity is looking for a ground. I did hear of one owner who had stray voltage in the neutral wire, had to get a code variance from the county to remove the grounding from the neutral wire from their house to the sub panel at the pool. We are still trying to figure out what is going on.

[KISS]

Where is the utilities transformer, relative to your main fuse box, relative to the swimming pool. Take the closest straight line distance.

e.g. transformer to main is 100'
Pool located at about 50' along that 100' and 20' perpendicular to that line.

Describe your soil. Clay, rock, dry, wet, sand etc.

[MJ1]

Transformer is about 100' away from fuse box.
Edge of pool is 20' from power line for about 25' of the 100'.
Clay

[KISS]

If you take a look at this link:

Household Electric Circuits

What's probably happening because of the distance, there is a gradient of voltage because of the ground resistance over such a large distance. I'll bet that the magnitude of the potential increases with the neutral current.

Normally 240 volt loads put no net neutral current. The neutral carries the difference in the 120 V loads on the two hot legs. This usually translates to the loads on every other breaker space.

Note that there is a code variation discussed that may, in fact, fix your problem. What would be required is the separation of the ground and neutral busses at the breaker box.

This would truly give one ground point.

Moving the utility transformer closer to the service might also help.

So could removing the neutral bond at the transformer.

The CATV utility could be the utility most affected by removing the ground bond at the main panel.

If these were done, I would make surge supression a SEPARATE electrode. Surge supression would then be provided for telephone and the main panel.

Again, cable TV creates a glitch because of the grounded shield. Something like Jensen Transformers VRD 1FF 1 Ch Digital CATV Isolator | Full Compass might have to be used on the CATV signal.

The problem is basically that there are multiple grounds and CATV is a single-ended utility.

Going through this analysis, it seems like there are two options:
1) Remove ground to neutral bond at the transformer
2) Move transformer closer to the main panel.

IF the ground-neutral bond is removed, then whole house surge supression should be provided through a separate ground rod.

My $0.02