[GV70]

I had a comment by someone who noted that termination cannot cut out CS. It can. I've done it. Check the state and work with your attorney general. The US has what we call "common law" but each state has its own set of adopted statutory law. Check your state law and your order --signed by a judge.
Mary, J.D.

Would you like to explain us in which states it is lawful and also would you like to cite the law or statutes which permit termination of parental rights to cut child support out IMMEDIATELY/without adoption or cases about paternity fraud... and maybe mutual agreement?/
Thank you.

[GV70]

I will be satisfied if you can give one example where the court states that because the parent has neglected/abused/abandoned his/her child/ren/ the court will free him/her of the child support obligation... without eventually adoption.:) :) :)
The courts will allow rights to be ended in cases of adoption; which generally falls under 3 categories:
1. New family adoptions
2. Native American tribes
3. Step-parent married to 1 existing parent 1+ years.

Otherwise, why should either a guy or gal get "off the hook"? The courts can just as easily limit their physical custody, and keep them financially responsible with the same result at less cost to the taxpayers.

[kkross2016]

Hi,
I am gathering all serious hospitalizations for serious health issues do to the lack of me going earlier to court. That and that was the only reason I have not been in court. I have called the Jamaica, Queens family court and I can modify the child support myself. I have contacted th csca and they are mailinng me a detailed amount of monies I have paid. I also am getting documentation from ssd when I first was on it. I called back when to my previous lawyer and he told me that when the Judge sees that I was not permitted to see my sons that the judge will automatically reward me custody. I have called verizon and the judge preferrs this that #s are supplied to the judge he/she can subpena verizon. They prefer it because in nyc/state at that time it cost the family courts $500 for every case it probably went up. I am going to jamaica supreme court to the records room(Which I have many times) I am making copies of all my papers since 1990. Only the last order I will go upstairs and have it certified.
Again Thank You for the reply this is a great site.
Kathy

[ScottGem]

Kathy,

I'm going to pop in here with some possibilities. If as you say, your support agreement states you pay until 21 or emancipated, then at the point your son became a Marine (out of training), the courts would be likely to consider that emancipated. Therefore, your ex, in continuing to accept support from you, might be considered to have committed fraud.

So I would definitely file for the support for him to end immediately and I would file for a return of payments made since his emancipation. You may not get them, but its worth trying. And yes, citing your medical history would be applicable if asked why you waited so long.

Good luck

[ScottGem]

I had a comment by someone who noted that termination cannot cut out CS. It can. I've done it. Check the state and work with your attorney general. The US has what we call "common law" but each state has its own set of adopted statutory law. Check your state law and your order --signed by a judge.
Mary, J.D.

This issue has been discussed before. It has been established that a person cannot be relieved of child support obligations solely by relinquishing parental rights. Usually that relinquishment was accompanied by the adoption of the child and it was the adoption that resulted in termination of the support obligation.

There are a huge number of parents who would be very happy to relinquish their rights to get out of child support. Allowing that would throw the welfare system into chaos.

You say you've done it. I suspect that something else happened along with the relinquishment that was the real reason for endind CS. Like GV70, I would like to see any statute from any US state or any other govt that would allow a parent to get out of child support by relinquishing parental rights.

[Mary Surette]

Great Kathy, God Bless you.
Mary

[Mary Surette]

Termination need not be followed by adoption, but adoption need be preceded by terminaton. Texas Family Code: (in Texas, however. One would need to check appropriate state jurisdiction.): Section 161.005 (best interest argument); Section 161.103 Affidavit need not be contain "suit to terminate joined with a petition for adoption;"
Section 161.206 Order to terminate with except as 161.2061, (post-termination contact by biological parent), divests legal duties. Case by case basis, use your case law, burden of proof. Not good public policy but possible.

[ScottGem]

You need to read the code more carefully. My perusal of the code, especially the sections you cite, deal with termination or rights, not child support. There is a recurring theme in the code that termination of rights is an extreme and not to be granted lightly. Except for the one section where it refers to terminating duties, nowhere else was parental obligations mentioned. I believe the word duties in that section refers to the child's dutiy to the parent, not the reverse, at least that's my interpretation based on the rest of the code.

[Mary Surette]

Your interpretation of termination of parental rights is too emotional. I never stated that it was something that should not be taken lightly. I understand your public policy argument, but once again, the law is stated in Texas, it has been done and a public policy argument is a variable, just as the facts are, just as your own attorney arguing your case.

You do not seem to have any empathy for a parent who may have a legitimate reason for terminating-- voluntarily. It is a very personal decision and reasons vary.

Once again, the section 161.206, DOES Divest duties -- duties are inclusive with child support. I disagee with your continuous notation that it CANNOT happen. I've done it.

[kkross2016]

To Mary, and Scott.
Thank you both for your help, and consideration. May God Bless both of you. (I, am still figuring out this site LOL) Yes, Scott from what I know as of today 08/11/2007 it can be fraud. I had wrote a written letter (Again) to the csca) and also again told my story, any time I have called the csca in the past they were very symtometic. They even gave me a 1-800 for any legal advice in NYC/State. But, I'm in Pa and on that call they would not receive any out of state calls for help.
Mary, Hi,
The way I lost custody of my 2 sons at that time was horrible. I pray everyday,especially for my sons. My marriage was OK, but, my divorce was a nightmare as previouly stated. I, have many good friends all over the country. (as, well as I have been a cosmotoligist for 30 years) now, back in 2000 when I lost custody-(the case started in 1999) I, had gotten sick. I then had moved into my Mothers home with her permission. (She passed since then God rest her soul), when I had gotten better, I, had contacted a good friend that I, have known since I, was 17. So, both my sons and I, took the trip. She showed me the area, and then I, saw a beautiful townhouse I wanted to rent for my 2 sons. I, went back called my lawyer and he told me that I, would have to get a legal permission letter for my move. My, Mother had a neighbor a lawyer so I, had her do it for $250. I, bit my tongue and called my ex. He was off having the time of his life so, I, figured and I told him that this was the best interest for my sons and I, and that if whenever he wanted to see my sons that I, would even drive them up. Ok, He said yes. But, his new wife is a,, She's a lot older then me and even 9 yrs older then him He had a mothers complex so I, was not surprised at all. I was his mother/wife. OK, I was speaking with him every time he picked up the kids. But, of course she didn't like it. Her problem. I have even at that time moved on. So, months passed I, was driving back and forth gettting employment,etc. Visiting my sister in Lodi/nj. She's an exc. For ING in NYC. Them 1 night while I was with my sons and at my sisters the police showed up asking to see if my 2 sons were OK. (My ex husband was a Highway 3 policeofficer and a crooked 1. My Mother told me to just give it up to God for I had to sons to rasise. )Ok, I immediately called my 2nd lawyer Robert Ross, who now is a JUdge in Family Court. I pray for his future the best lawyer I, ever seen.) Ok, long story shorter. Custody pappers were survived to me. All of a sudden he wants to be a good father. (He never wanted them) I retained my 3rd lawyer. Lost thousands of dollars because of the move. And my Mothers house was cramped. Investigators came out sat down with me I, told them this was a temporary stay because I, am only here and now all my monies are going for a custody case. I, Got another job not with hair but, to try to work around my sons. I, prayed hard. I, just wanted the best for my sons so .I, gave up custody and let my ex/wife have them. They lived in a very expensive area, I, went to school their and worked in FH NY and won best hairstylist for NY 1997 at supercuts/Regis.
That day I, lost custody was the hardest day of my life. I, sat with them. Told them I, loved them and I, taught them how to pray you are never alone. I, had my brother take a picture and I, prayed gave up my tears. And felt that was God, Jesus and the Holy spirit wanted. After that. I, got a haircutting job near their apartment,got an apartment in the area. And the first time I, wanted to see them I had a fight. I'm strong. They wanted to work around there terms I, disaggreed and won. I, took my sons to breakfast, We, walked around the Globe at the old worlds fair in Flushing NY. I, wanted to see where there heads were at. WE, slept. The next day we spoke I, had to go back to work. As, we were laeving I, demanded him pick them up. My, older son was OK. But, my younger son was crying. I, told him he can call me anytime 25/8 days a week. I, then got sick. Went into the hospital and my friends came and picked me up. First I, stopped at my Moms to say goodbe and that I, Loved her. And came here to pa. The first thing I. did was call there to set up a scdule and my ex husbands wife said "No, I am their mother now". I, call as much as I, can. Even when my mom passed and she worked in the court system in Queens Ny and won awards there. And gave my husband at that time $15,000 cash, And I, didn't want him to I, didn't want any part of that and I. told my Mom at that time NO. She knew how hard I, we worked and she just wanted to see us have a house.
But, getting back to the point I, have to go.
Thank You
Mary,
And Scott.
I'm pretty talented in many things maybe someday I can you you both advice,,
Have a great Night.
Kathy

[Mary Surette]

Dearest Kathy,

You will be fine.

Why don't you try to establish you visitation for the son who is not in the military? Surely you have visitation rights even if you are not the primary conservator. If you have supervised visitation, I'm not sure, maybe your ex imposed them and the judge agreed, you can still see your other son. What about future summer visitations?
You still have rights as a parent to see the younger son, even telephonic communication.


As far as your other son in military schooling or training, yes, check to see if his age and or his status affects your child support payments -- some or all of it. You can even argue that your circumstances have changed -- given your health issues. Fraud, in my opinion, would be too difficult to prove -- with intent. After all, if he just turned 21 recently, the court may see that as the break off point. Maybe, it wouldn't be worth the time or the money arguing fraud for about a year's time passed.

I would go to court and get an order modifying what it is that you do pay on the son who is 21 or in military school, file another motion for visitation rights for your other son so that you don't waste any time going to court. All this is assuming the other younger son's jurisdiction is in the same court as the older son.

Did I make any sense? You will be fine. Relax and don't work so hard.

You can accomplish anything you put your mind to.

God bless you and let me know what happens.

Mary

[kkross2016]

Mary,
Thank You, the only thing that I'm concerned about is that my ex/wife rufused to let me even speak to either of my sons. They had do deal with this like a death almost. Divorce is hard but, even harder on kids. Well, I am awaiting all my papers to come hopefully the mail will be quick. I, will let you and Scott know
Thank You Again,
Kathy

[Mary Surette]

You are welcome. God Bless you.
Mary

[tawnynkids]

You say you've done it. I suspect that something else happened along with the relinquishment that was the real reason for endind CS. Like GV70, I would like to see any statute from any US state or any other govt that would allow a parent to get out of child support by relinquishing parental rights.

::EDIT:: For staying more to the point (and responding to yours in particular) I am editing this to the following:
Under the Kansas Code for Care of Children, K.S.A. 38-1501 et seq. both parents may agree that one parent's rights should be terminated if the noncustodial parent has no contact with and fails to support the child. The custodial parent will then have grounds to file a child in need of care petition and seek to terminate the noncustodial parent's rights. Even though the child is being well cared for by the custodial parent, a court may find that the noncustodial parent has abandoned the child and thus find that the child is a child in need of care and proceed to terminate the noncustodial parent's rights. In this way the custodial parent can be assured that the other parent can never try to challenge his or her custody and will never have custody of the child even if the custodial parent dies. Conversely, the noncustodial parent is assured that he or she will never have to provide support for the child, either directly or through reimbursement to SRS under K.S.A. 1996 Supp. 39-709 and K.S.A. 1996 Supp. 39-755. While this result appears directly contrary to the established rule of law that a parent may not simply divest himself or herself of the duty to support his or her child, Kansas statutes are clear that such action is permitted as long as both parents are willing and the court finds it is in the best interests of the child.

Because termination was suggested as a possible resolution (in post #2) to this situation, I am offering that since it seems possible to do in at least 2 states and without knowing for a fact otherwise, I guess it could be possible in NY. The advice of a lawyer would be needed to know for sure. You could request a modification of current support, whether it is lowered or not is another issue. However, it does not seem to be possible to affect the arrears due and receive any "refund" of those monies.

[ScottGem]

See my response here:

https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/adopti...-113814-2.html

[kkross2016]

To Mary, Scott, and tawnynkids,
Mary first hi I, hope everything is great with you. I, did try to contact my son. First in State College at the Marine recruiters. They then said I. would get better results if I, went to the Red Cross. I, did. I, set up an appointment with 1 woman their who had "clout" she was extremely helpful. Phone calls emails- to the Marine HQ in Va. Everything seemed like it was working. Then, she called me that the Marine HQ would not allow even me his Mother and I, have his ssi #. To get in touch with him they had a 2 yr break point. She, thought it was HORRIBLE that even a mother who lost contact with could not get in touch with my son. After 2 yrs sorry. Well, she was going to Washington DC for a meeting with the Pres. To propose a new law. She must have done something because I, was able to send a letter to Va. She asked me if it was OK to use me as an example I, said YES. I, then immediately sent a letter to the marine address. They sent me a letter back they sent it. Then, I, receive a letter from marine VA. That they sent it to the wrong address. My sons ssi # was in it, and mine. (My ex has a very common name) So, I, will try again. I, have to build a repour again.
Kathy

Hi Scott you have given me excellent advice, Thank you. I, will keep you updated.
kathy

tawnynkids,
Hello,
the most important thing to me is to see my 2 sons. Like previous I, had wrote I, had serious illnesses. Yes, I, have to go and modify cs. I, have exhausted the Queens Ny family court. I, cannot tell you,, well we both had 3 lawyers. I, filed stood in front up/down in/out,, going to family court in Queens ny is a nightmare. It takes everything you have to go their. From the poorest of poors to the richest of riches crambed in a building without proper ventilization. And all emotions fly . I, find myself praying. But, anyway. The thought of seeing my ex/wife turns my stomach they were made for each other lol. I, will modify. I, will ask questions. And I, am going I, pray with 1,, % proof of everything I, need. I, mean I, live 6hrs away if I, drive back or 7 by amtrack and stay with family or friends. I, am also going to try and see if the judge can understand and let me file, mail him the supbena, and get a quick court date.
So, nice meeting you,
Kathy
PS: To you 3 lol I, was searching for a pro bono lawyer. If you know 1 let me know LOL
+-^

[GV70]

::EDIT:: Under the Kansas Code for Care of Children, K.S.A. 38-1501 et seq., both parents may agree that one parent's rights should be terminated if the noncustodial parent has no contact with and fails to support the child.

K.S.A.38-1501 WAS REPEALED

Conversely, the noncustodial parent is assured that he or she will never have to provide support for the child, either directly or through reimbursement to SRS under K.S.A. 1996 Supp. 39-709 and K.S.A. 1996 Supp. 39-755.

39-709MENTALLY ILL, INCAPACITATED AND DEPENDENT PERSONS; SOCIAL WELFARE


39-755. Actions by secretary to establish parentage and to enforce support rights; necessary parties to proceedings; counsel; orders; application of section.
:confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:

[kkross2016]

To Tawnynkids,
1 of my serious illnesses is Bi-Polar. I, have been hospitalized 7x.
Kathy