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Donal Trump is against the War with a passion?
This video shows how Donal Trump is against the war
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a30rJQbDDno Is he spreading lies? |
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No idea, since I can't see the video.
When it comes to real estate or running a business, I would listen to what the guy has to say. But when it comes to politics, I think we need to take a step back and see who we are talking about. This is the same guy who got into a pissin' contest with that fathead Rosie O'Donnel. The guy who publicly ripped Martha Stewart's version of his show. This is the same guy who did a wrestling pay-per-view with Vince McMahon. Why would listen to anything that Trump has to say about anything outside his business and real-estate expertise? Elliot |
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 Originally Posted by ETWolverine
I asked if he was spreading lies, but then you decided to attack his character (refering to the times he called rosie fat). You say he's the same guy who did a wrestle-pay-per view with Vince McMahon. I'm not so sure if what you're saying actually makes someone a liar. Well I guess it does make sense because this is America, and we're always presented with these types of arguments, like the one you put forth. |
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Chris, it is obvious what you are doing. So let me make this clear for anyone you direct to this string.
Donald Trump has absolutely no expertise in matters of war. He has no expertise in international politics or diplomacy. And he has a reputation as a hothead who picks public fights and pulls promotional stunts for popularity. Therefore, considering these facts, Donald Trump is not someone that we should be paying attention to in matters of war and international relations. I have no idea whether Trump is lying or not about the facts of the war, since I haven't been able to see the video. I said that in the first sentence of my first post in this string. But whether he is lying or not about facts does not change the fact that his OPINIONS regarding the war are suspect. Therfore, the fact that "Trump is against the war with a passion" does not hold much water with me. Now... please explain to all those reading this string why you put so much weight in Donald Trump's opinions on the war? What is it about Donald Trump that makes his opinion regarding the war more valuable than, say, General David Patreus' opinion? And if you do not believe that Donald Trump's opinions are of greater value than General Patreus' opinions, why not? In other words, on what basis are you discounting one person's opinions over another's? And how does it differ from our reasons for discounting Trump's opinions? Just wondering. Ball's in your court, Chris. Let's see if you can step up. Elliot |
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Originally Posted by ETWolverine
You want to make it seem this way so you can have an excuse to make what is a very weak argument from you, Wolver, to seem as if it is, or was in the first place, strong. Actually, in areas where you had never presented any argument, you try greatly to form one, all so you can get your own "feelings" across. I will show everyone how. For example, this is what you have done: It is as if you, Wolver (for example) have been saying, "Chris, since you have just said that Donald owns Disney, and he is the Minister of Finance from Canada, can you prove this? Why or Why not?" You are careful to put the “why” or “why not” because you need to give the illusion that you are not making assumptions, and therefore not being “illogical” again. Yet, Wolver, it does not matter if you put a “why” or “why not” against things I have never even said in the first place! The “why” or “why not” is only a tactic to further manipulate me, as well as others, to play into what you want. Getting back to the example I had just provided to show others what you are doing, I have to say this is a little “crazy” because I have not said anything about Donald, for example, owning 'Disney' or anything about the 'Minister of Finance from Canada'. And if I never said these things, then what could the purpose of you pretending that I 'have' said them, be? The purpose is because you feel a 'threat'. There was no way of discarding anything I had said in my post so far, yet, because you feel as though I had made it clear to discard what you have said in your post, you need to do the same to me. Because, Wolver, when in response to me asking above, "Is Donald Trump spreading lies in regards to the War", you chose to give the argument that "no, do not listen to Donald Trump's views about the War because, why would you want to listen to someone who wrestled on pay-per-view, called Rosie a fathead, and criticized Martha Stewart". I chose to give you a “green point” and to “agree” and write “This is a great example why people like Donald Trump should be discredited for his views of the War their own country is leading”. This upset you. You realized that, indeed, this was not a great example of what a true argument for “not listening to someone's views on War” should have been. It was though, by my standards, a great example of how many arguments are formed these days, but it is not an example of a rational argument. After all this, you now search for a way to make your argument appear rational, when in the first place it was not rational at all. This is why you start to pretend and manipulate me (as well as manipulate everyone else who is reading this) into thinking that I, Chris, had said “Donald's views discredit others” or “Donald's views should be given more weight against so-and-so”. I'm sorry, but this is not the way that we re-build our weak position. There is nothing wrong with admitting that your first conclusion, Wolver, was not backed up by adequate evidence or support. But to come here and try to give an illusion of having had adequate support, after you realized that you hadn't, or to come here and try to manipulate me into helping you appear as if you had initially built a strong argument, is…well you get the point. Nice doing business with you. |
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Originally Posted by _Chris_
Bobby |
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Originally Posted by _Chris_
YOU are the one who brought up Donald Trump, and asked if he was spreading lies. Thus, the basis for your entire post was that Donald Trump MIGHT be someone worth listening to, assuming he isn't spreading lies. Which means that YOU put weight on what he says, at least to some degree. These aren't assumptions, they are the very basis of your original post. My first response was: 1) I don't know if he is spreading lies, since I cannot view the video in question. 2) It doesn't matter whether he is spreading lies because he has no expertise in international relations, diplomacy or war, and is therefore his opinion is of no real consequence whatsoever. 3) In addition, he has a history of PR stunts that include wrestling PPVs, picking fights with public figures, etc. Why should we believe that this video is anything but another PR stunt? To date, you have not answered a single one of these points. You have discounted them as "unworthy" and "weak" arguments, without once stating WHY they are unworthy or weak. The additional point in my third post was that you must give at least some credence to Donald Trump, otherwise you would have never made the original post in the first place. So, how much credence do you actually give him? Is it more than you give to David Patreus? If so, why? If not, why? If you do, then why do you discount David Patreus' opinions, when he has the greater experience on the issue of Iraq and put a greater premium on Trump's opinions, when he lacks such expertise? If you do not give trump more credence than Patreus, then why do you discount Trump and put a premium on Patreus' opinion? And if you value them EXACTLY THE SAME, the question becomes, why do you give Trump, who lacks any foreign policy experience whatsoever and is known for his PR stunts, any credence at all, much less a similar level of credence as that of the experts in the field of Mid-East foreign relations and military issues? In other words, what is the basis for you original post, which makes clear that you DO give Trump some credence? Why do you do so? You still have not answered that question. And on what basis do you claim that those who have good historical reason to discount anything Trump has to say are putting forward "weak" arguments? Are you saying that he isn't a PR hound who will say anything and do anything to get his face on screen? Are you arguing that he does have a level of political/diplomatic/military expereince that he has managed to hide from the public for all these years? Please explain why my argument is "weak". Elliot |
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Trump makes his first major point that Saddam did not support terrorists .The is a falsehood on 4 points.
1. He paid cash to families of homicide bombers in Palestine . 2. Saddam gave sanctuary to such notable terrorists as Abu Nidal . 3. He allowed terrorists to set up training camps inside Iraq . Salman Pak facilities had a plane fuselage that was used for training hijackers... hmmmm . No connection ? 4.Abu Musab al-Zarqawi was in Iraq before the invasion as a leader of Ansar al-Islam ,a Saddam supported group that committed acts of terrorism against the Kurds . He had been wounded in Afghanistan and received medical treatment in Baghdad before he was assigned by Saddam to the group. So Trumps basic contention that the war was not justified because Saddam never supported terrorist and in fact killed them when they entered Iraq is if not an outright lie ,then an ill informed falsehood. I don't know what his biggest beef is but I suspect he lets it out in his concern that the rest of the world in his words hates us. Besides this being a ridiculous overstatement ;he reveals that his bigger concern is that it's effect on his business negotiations. He would place US national interest secondary to his business interests . Fine ;that is a legit position to take . But let's not make him out as a patriot... he is in this case more of a selfish business man. Then on one hand he says that we should just declare victory and leave and a couple of sentences later he spells out what a catastrophe it would be for us to leave. Overall he sounds hopelessly naïve . I'm amazed that Wolfe Blitzer would consider him a credible source worthy of an interview on the subject. Like I said his position and understanding of reality mirrors Natalie Maine's |
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