[jillianleab]

inthebox:

Because we (taxpayers) pay for things we don't like/approve of/support/condone/agree with all the time. What makes this different?

[Synnen]

Why are people with no kids funding education?

Why are people who aren't old and may never grow old funding Medicare?

Why are people who have no kids, have jobs, and have contributed to society funding Welfare?

Why do non-drug addicts pay for clinics that help rehabilitate drug users?

Why do we pay for homes for women who have been battered, when it was THEIR choice to have a relationship with an abusive person?

Because it's for the greater good of society.

Seriously... you're barking up the wrong tree with the whole Planned Parenthood thing. Planned Parenthood has also done more to PREVENT abortions (by providing counseling and contraceptives, as well as gynecological exams) than any other agency.

[Kattalover]

I am absolutely pro choice. It's between a woman and her conscience to make that decision.

[J_9]

Sorry got to spread the love Synn.

[inthebox]

Why should criminals pay police, district attorneys, etc with their taxes?

Why should anti-war taxpayers fund wars?

Why should atheist taxpayers fund faith based initiatives?


You don't get a direct say in where your tax money goes (with the exception of that little box on your return that authorizes your money to go into the election fund to be used as federal matching dollars) on ANY issue. Why would your pet issue be any different from anybody else's?

1] Compared to law abiding citizens , what % of "Criminals' actually pay taxes?

2] War? - The military ensures your freedom.



Those who are pro choice/death don't want the government to make it illegal because "its my body" then want that same government to pay for or fund abortions?


The there are others who say that if a child is not going to be '"healthy" then its understandable or justifiable to kill them. Are you implying that children with Down's syndrome or cystic fibrosis or a family history of huntingtons don't deserve a chance to live ?




Grace and Peace

[nauticalstar420]

1] Compared to law abiding citizens , what % of "Criminals' actually pay taxes?

2] War? - The military ensures your freedom.



Those who are pro choice/death don't want the government to make it illegal because "its my body" then want that same government to pay for or fund abortions?


The there are others who say that if a child is not going to be '"healthy" then its understandable or justifiable to kill them. Are you implying that children with Down's syndrome or cystic fibrosis or a family history of huntingtons don't deserve a chance to live ?




Grace and Peace

Could you go through 9 months of pregnancy, labor, and delivery (that is, if you are a female) knowing that your child has something wrong with him and may not even live an hour outside the womb? Could you get so attatched to that child only for him to possibly die having little time to spend with him?

Like J_9 said, if you were in the shoes of someone who has gone through this, you would change your tune.

[inthebox]

Biologically no, I'm male.

To paraphrase excon, public forum, public opinion.

My wife had 2 children at 18 and was divorced and poor when she found out she was pregnant.
She stuck it out, and he is now 8 and 1/2 yo boy that brings such joy into our lives.



I will back off on this topic - it is a very tough issue.

I mean no disrespect to those who have a different opinion. My apologies.





Grace and Peace

[nauticalstar420]

Biologically no, I'm male.

To paraphrase excon, public forum, public opinion.

My wife had 2 children at 18 and was divorced and poor when she found out she was pregnant.
She stuck it out, and he is now 8 and 1/2 yo boy that brings such joy into our lives.



I will back off on this topic - it is a very tough issue.

I mean no disrespect to those who have a different opinion. My apologies.





Grace and Peace

Opinions are always welcome here. That is a lot of what is on this site.

But, not being able to take care of a child financially, and having a child that is unhealthy and could die, are two different things.

[Nosnosna]

You don't get to pick and say that the things *YOU* don't like shouldn't get funded, and then turn around and say that the things *I* don't like should. If you get to choose where your taxes go, then I get to choose where mine go. That's a double standard, and is at the heart of every argument you've put forth here. You get offended that we don't follow your beliefs and outlaw abortion, but simply by putting forth that argument, you're telling me that my beliefs are wrong. And frankly, I find that offensive. You are offending me by saying that I have to follow your beliefs. Every single time you make the argument, you offend me. And yet you'll whine and cry saying that it's unfair that others aren't following yours.

[inthebox]

Nosnosna:

I'm not offended. You don't have to follow my beliefs.
I' m just posing some questions.
Sorry if I offended you.



Grace and Peace

[J_9]

I'm not offended. You don't have to follow my beliefs.

But some of us may be offended by your beliefs. Have you ever read up on anencephaly? Do you know what it is? Do you care?

Well if not, here you go...

Infants born with anencephaly are usually blind, deaf, unconscious, and unable to feel pain. Although some individuals with anencephaly may be born with a rudimentary brainstem, which controls autonomic and regulatory function, the lack of a functioning cerebrum permanently rules out the possibility of ever gaining consciousness. Reflex actions such as breathing and responses to sound or touch may occur. The disorder is one of the most common disorders of the fetal central nervous system.

There is no cure or standard treatment for anencephaly and the prognosis for affected individuals is poor. Most anencephalic babies do not survive birth, accounting for 55% of non-aborted cases. If the infant is not stillborn, then he or she will usually die within a few hours or days after birth from cardiorespiratory arrest.

In almost all cases anencephalic infants are not aggressively resuscitated since there is no chance of the infant ever achieving a conscious existence. Instead, the usual clinical practice is to offer hydration, nutrition and comfort measures and to "let nature take its course". Artificial ventilation, surgery (to fix any co-existing congenital defects), and drug therapy (such as antibiotics) are usually regarded as futile efforts. Some clinicians and medical ethicists even view the provision of nutrition and hydration as medically futile, arguing that euthanasia is morally and clinically appropriate in such cases.

So, Inthebox, this ever happened to you?

I ask again. What would you do?

[nauticalstar420]

But some of us may be offended by your beliefs. Have you ever read up on anencephaly? Do you know what it is? Do you care?

Well if not, here ya go...

Infants born with anencephaly are usually blind, deaf, unconscious, and unable to feel pain. Although some individuals with anencephaly may be born with a rudimentary brainstem, which controls autonomic and regulatory function, the lack of a functioning cerebrum permanently rules out the possibility of ever gaining consciousness. Reflex actions such as breathing and responses to sound or touch may occur. The disorder is one of the most common disorders of the fetal central nervous system.

There is no cure or standard treatment for anencephaly and the prognosis for affected individuals is poor. Most anencephalic babies do not survive birth, accounting for 55% of non-aborted cases. If the infant is not stillborn, then he or she will usually die within a few hours or days after birth from cardiorespiratory arrest.

In almost all cases anencephalic infants are not aggressively resuscitated since there is no chance of the infant ever achieving a conscious existence. Instead, the usual clinical practice is to offer hydration, nutrition and comfort measures and to "let nature take its course". Artificial ventilation, surgery (to fix any co-existing congenital defects), and drug therapy (such as antibiotics) are usually regarded as futile efforts. Some clinicians and medical ethicists even view the provision of nutrition and hydration as medically futile, arguing that euthanasia is morally and clinically appropriate in such cases.

So, Inthebox, this ever happened to you?

I ask again. What would you do?

Wow. You just gave me chills. That is so scary, and so terrible.

[J_9]

inthebox agrees: using the argument that back alley abortions will cause death ? What is abortion but death?

Death to the mother, due to infection. Did you read my post about my brother-in-law who was supposed to be a back alley abortion? I didn't think so.

You have never been in this position, you have no right to judge what decisions those of us who may have been there.

Back alley abortions killed more than regulated medically induced abortions.

[J_9]

Wow. You just gave me chills. That is so scary, and so terrible.

And so real. It does happen.

[nauticalstar420]

And so real. It does happen.

I might have skipped over it in your description, but is there a cause? Something the mother does that could cause this?

[J_9]

The cause of anencephaly is unknown. Neural tube defects do not follow direct patterns of heredity. Studies show that a woman who has had one child with a neural tube defect such as anencephaly, has about a 3% risk to have another child with a neural tube defect. This risk can be reduced to about 1% if the woman takes high dose (4mg/day) of folic acid before and during pregnancy.

It is known that women taking certain medication for epilepsy and women with insulin dependent diabetes have a higher chance of having a child with a neural tube defect. Genetic counseling is usually offered to women at a higher risk of having a child with a neural tube defect to discuss available testing.

Recent studies have shown that the addition of folic acid to the diet of women of child-bearing age may significantly reduce, although not eliminate, the incidence of neural tube defects. Therefore, it is recommended that all women of child-bearing age consume 0.4 mg of folic acid daily, especially those attempting to conceive or who may possibly conceive. It is not advisable to wait until pregnancy has begun, since by the time a woman knows she is pregnant, the critical time for the formation of a neural tube defect has usually already passed. A physician may prescribe even higher dosages of folic acid (4 mg/day) for women who have had a previous pregnancy with a neural tube defect.

[Williams925]

I have a 4 year old daughter whose father raped me.. she looks just like him too. And once someone asked me if I think of him when I look at her. And the answer was no. I see her as MY daughter, my angel... and I see her as herself no matter who she looks like. To me rape isn't an excuse for abortion. But I don't judge people who have had abortions.

[Big10]

Yes abortion is murder, and a growing industry with millions of dollars of backing. I do beleive over time we will see futher restrictions in its use.

I will agree with J9, as to your issues of posting

Fr_Chuck. I always thought abortion was murder. But then lately I've been thinking differently. You say that abortion is murder and a growing industry with millions of dollars of backing.

Well then I guess going to War is murder, with millions of dollars backing it? Actually wait, much more than millions!

What I'm trying to get at here is that... is it fair to say that abortion is murder? If it is, then I guess it's fair to say that our soldiers who are fighting the War on Terror are muderers? NOWAY! NO NO! They aren't murderers. So... your choice of "wording" is very politically interesting here.

Our soldiers do not have the intention to cold-bloodingly murder people... this is playing with words! An interesting choice in words! So to say "murder" is very unfair. I don't think these moms who are getting abortions are thinking of cold-blooded murder. You never know... similar to that soldier who is ending another's life to protect Americans (and many times soldiers kill innocent people), a mother could be preventing the life of her child (yes innocent child) because of various reasons JUST like the soldier (like for example... the mom could be a twelve year old rape victim who really can't go through having a child... and it's unfair to ask her to do this... and it's unfair to tell her she is a murderer in this case).

[FrOsT_bItE]

I totally agree with you. Abortion should be illegal and if someone conceived a child, they should at least let someone adopt it instead of killing it. People should at least think whose life their destroying. Their life or the child's? Anyway, if people can't look after a child... THEN HAVE SAFE SEX! OR EVEN BETTER, DON'T HAVE SEX AT ALL!

[nauticalstar420]

i totally agree with you. Abortion should be illegal and if someone conceived a child, they should at least let someone adopt it instead of killing it. People should at least think whose life their destroying. Their life or the child's? Anyway, if people can't look after a child...... THEN HAVE SAFE SEX! OR EVEN BETTER, DON'T HAVE SEX AT ALL!

Did you miss those couple of posts about unhealthy children? The ones that are projected to live maybe an hour after being born? What should women do in those situations? Have the baby, get attatched to it for maybe an hour, and watch it die?