[firmbeliever]

No, I'm not trying to box and label you, I'm trying to find out whether you believe that the Almighty intervenes in the physical world in a way that supersedes or suspends the working of natural laws, for the express PURPOSE of inflicting punishment and teaching lessons. I'm not interested in whether you think He COULD do it. I want to know if you think He DOES do it, regularly and routinely.

What are jinns?

So are you saying that the command of the Almighty sometimes (often?) supersedes the normal working of physical processes to CAUSE disasters that would not happen (at that particular time and place) otherwise?

So how could we tell if or when the Almighty's guidance of natural processes suspends or supersedes the normal operation of natural laws? Or are you saying that although it definitely does happen, we have no way to tell whether any particular disaster is an example of it?

OK, so if the final judgment on the day of resurrection is for the purpose of meting out Divine justice, what's the point of these earthly punishments in the form of Divinely inflicted disasters?

I think I might be coming to understand your point of view and to comprehend what you are trying to say. If I do understand you correctly, it is the difference in our beliefs about the nature of the Almighty's character that makes it difficult for me to adopt your point of view as my own.

Here are some examples which is confirmed in the Quran were punishments from the Almighty,but it was "natural disasters".
Quran 51: 38 to 46
"And in Mûsa (Moses) (too, there is a sign). When We sent him to Fir'aun (Pharaoh) with a manifest authority. But [Fir'aun (Pharaoh)] turned away (from Belief in might) along with his hosts, and said: "A sorcerer, or a madman." So We took him and his hosts, and dumped them into the sea, while he was to be blamed.
And in 'Ad (there is also a sign) when We sent against them the barren wind;
It spared nothing that it reached, but blew it into broken spreads of rotten ruins.
And in Thamûd (there is also a sign), when they were told: "Enjoy yourselves for a while!"
But they insolently defied the Command of their Lord, so the Sâ'iqah overtook them while they were looking. Then they were unable to rise up, nor could they help themselves.
(So were) the people of Nûh (Noah) before them. Verily, they were a people who were Fâsiqûn (rebellious, disobedient to Allâh)."
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Regarding Jinns
https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/parano...tml#post586324
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I cannot tell you whether the natural process is superceded by the Almighty, I only know that all natural occurrings happen under His command and He knows what will happen in the future.So it is not like suddenly today He decides OK I am going to destroy such and such people,
The Almighty is "all wise" and "all aware", hence everything we see as future is all known to Him.And I believe each group of people has their appointed time and it cannot be delayed or hastened how much ever we wish,each persons time of death is known to the Almighty.
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About earthly punishments, these sometimes work as an expiation, I believe that if I fall ill, it is part of the Almighty's mercy and He maybe cancelling many of my sins and on the Day of Resurrection I maybe rewarded for my patience and prayer and faith in the Almighty even during hard times.(Does not mean I will not see a doctor or take medication for it):)

The Sun is hidden during the night and we are in darkness, that to me is a sign.
During eclipses when the planets align as such we are left with a spectacular view and a sign from the Almighty.
When the waves of the sea rise in a Tsunami and crashes inland yet only few die, in that is a sign for me as a believer. A whirlwind rages through a town which may kill some while sparing others, in that is a sign.
All these processes involve the Almighty and nothing even moves against His law except as I said free will of humans and jinns.
Each is a punishment for some and a sign for others,
Some who die may have been suffering before the calamity struck and they may have been spared any more heartaches,while those living learn lessons from loss and bereavement.

So if you are asking me to answer "Why" and "When" the Almighty deems it fit for a person to meet His death,then I do not know the answer to that.

----------------------------
Regarding our differences and the difficulty to understand my point, you may be right in that I do not see the Almighty as human with human qualities.
He does not possess characteristics like humans or any other of His creations,He is unique in His characteristics.
Another thing I believe is that He deserves to be worshipped as One without setting up partners from among His created beings.
He is not revengeful as He gains nothing when we are in peril nor does He lose anything when we do wrong and turn to sin, it is us who are the losers.
And it is out of His mercy that He keeps sending warnings and showing signs that we may look and understand and not turn a blind eye or deaf ear and ignore all these things.:)

[NeedKarma]

Well firm, your last post was disappointing. You're basically saying "because god says so/makes it happen". You are firmly entrenched in the dogma of your religion, why even bother asking questions about science? Can't we answer all your questions with "because god makes it happen"?

I mean, c'mon, "the sun is hidden during the night" and that is a sign that your god is causing these things?
" When the waves of the sea rise in a Tsunami and crashes inland yet only few die" - 300,000 deaths is only a few?

[firmbeliever]

Well firm, your last post was disappointing. You're basically saying "because god says so/makes it happen". You are firmly entrenched in the dogma of your religion, why even bother asking questions about science? Can't we answer all your questions with "because god makes it happen"?

I mean, c'mon, "the sun is hidden during the night" and that is a sign that your god is causing these things?
" When the waves of the sea rise in a Tsunami and crashes inland yet only few die" - 300,000 deaths is only a few?

NK,sorry to disappoint you, but you see my belief in the Creator does not diminish even if I keep asking and getting answers in science.

And about the signs I talked about are not scientific explanations, it is just to make a point that it does not take a disaster for me to realise God exists,I knew that a long time ago,but a natural disaster strenghthens my faith.
And just because I believe the Almighty controls things that exist in this universe does not mean that I should not learn how each natural process works.It is my duty to learn about nature which does not mean that I question the existence of a Creator.

And about the Tsunami, a tsunami I mentioned is not the Tsunami of 2004, it could be any of the waves that hit Japan every year.

And do not try to make it seem like I do not care or are belittling the suffering of so many human beings.I was a witness right in the middle of the Tsunami.I saw the people suffer their losses of property and family and who are still struggling to get their life in order.

I personally know a little girl who lost her mother in the wave and she is getting on with life with the help of my family and hers.This does not mean that I ask the Almighty "Why", I believe in His wisdom.

I am also really sad to see that you as a fair person is judging me and expecting me to have answers to all questions posed regarding belief.
I am a beleiver which does not mean I know what plans the Almighty has in store for you and me, in reference to natural disasters or even personal tragedies.
And I do not have to justify the way the whole world works in order to prove my faith.

And also sorry to see that you have me on a pedestal of sorts expecting me to be able to give satisfactory answers for all questions posed(especially regarding beliefs).I am human as you are and I have my strenghths and weaknesses.

[ordinaryguy]

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Regarding Jinns
https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/parano...tml#post586324

So they are invisible, but can transform themselves into (visible?) humans? Is there any reliable way to tell if a person you meet is actually a jinn in disguise? I can see that believing in them would add spice to ones life.
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I cannot tell you whether the natural process is superceded by the Almighty, I only know that all natural occurrings happen under His command

Well, if we have no way to tell whether the command of the Almighty ever deviates from or supersedes the usual operation of physical laws, I'd rather just interpret them all the same way.

About earthly punishments, these sometimes work as an expiation, I believe that if I fall ill, it is part of the Almighty's mercy and He maybe cancelling many of my sins and on the Day of Resurrection I maybe rewarded for my patience and prayer and faith in the Almighty even during hard times.(Does not mean I will not see a doctor or take medication for it):)

Fascinating.

The Sun is hidden during the night and we are in darkness, that to me is a sign.
During eclipses when the planets align as such we are left with a spectacular view and a sign from the Almighty.
When the waves of the sea rise in a Tsunami and crashes inland yet only few die, in that is a sign for me as a believer. A whirlwind rages through a town which may kill some while sparing others, in that is a sign.

I guess I really don't understand what you mean by "sign". If you simply mean taking physical events and processes as a reminder of some spiritual truth or belief, I can dig it. Much beyond that, I'm dubious.

And it is out of His mercy that He keeps sending warnings and showing signs that we may look and understand and not turn a blind eye or deaf ear and ignore all these things.:)

Signs and warnings are where you see them, I guess. I don't see the intentional infliction of disaster and tragedy as consistent with the character of a kind and loving Father, and I don't worship or believe in a God who does such things.

[firmbeliever]

.................. as consistent with the character of a kind and loving Father, and I don't worship or believe in a God who does such things.

Therein lies our difference... :)

[spiffyness101]

Well haven't posted here in awhile but I have a question. First I will say yes I am a Christian and no I won't judge you if you aren't. Okay so here's the question:

If you are an atheist, claiming that there is no God or anything, why do you believe that? Aside from science and everything else why do YOU personal believe that there is no God? I'm just asking why do you believe what you do. What is your personal view and outloook. Way back in this forum someone had said that no one was asking what atheists believe. So now its your turn, why? I'm just really curious to hear.

[excon]

If you are an atheist, claiming that there is no God or anything, why do you believe that? ......What is your personal view and outloook.

Hello spiffy:

I don't believe there is a God for the same reasons I don't believe there is a tooth fairy. I'm not making light of the entity YOU have a great deal of belief in. I'm just answering your question.

My personal views on life or how I conduct myself, has NOTHING to do with the above belief.

It's no more difficult than that.

excon

[albear]

They just don't...they see things in a more logical sense or whats logical to them perhaps. Some people just don't feel the need to believe in god...once we die we die and that's that.

Precicesly, on the head

[macksmom]

I agree with excon...

It's really pretty simple... just as easily as you believe in a god... I do not.

As much as I could try and give "reasons" it won't prevent people telling me my reasons are wrong and trying to back up why I should undoubtly believe in a god.

I just don't.

[albear]

Well haven't posted here in awhile but I have a question. First I will say yes I am a Christian and no I won't judge you if you aren't. Okay so heres the question:

If you are an atheist, claiming that there is no God or anything, why do you believe that? Aside from science and everything else why do YOU personal believe that there is no God? I'm just asking why do you believe what you do. What is your personal view and outloook. Way back in this forum someone had said that no one was asking what atheists believe. So now its your turn, why? I'm just really curious to hear.

I see no reason for me to believe

[NeedKarma]

Well haven't posted here in awhile but I have a question. First I will say yes I am a Christian and no I won't judge you if you aren't. Okay so heres the question:

If you are an atheist, claiming that there is no God or anything, why do you believe that? Aside from science and everything else why do YOU personal believe that there is no God? I'm just asking why do you believe what you do. What is your personal view and outloook. Way back in this forum someone had said that no one was asking what atheists believe. So now its your turn, why? I'm just really curious to hear.

Well for starters you could actually read all the posts in this thread.

[firmbeliever]

Well for starters you could actually read all the posts in this thread.

I did want to suggest that...

[N0help4u]

I agree it seems to me impossible for there not to be a God.
There has to be a mastermind behind the order of nature.
DNA and everything has a coded number and the universe works in harmony
I say the 'Big Bang' was God saying, "LET there BE....!"
People laugh at the thought of God saying he made man from dirt but now they say that everything can be broke down to ALL DNA being the same it is just how it is structured.
In other words the same DNA makes dirt, bananas, monkeys, trees, grass, man, etc... BUT each thing, species has its own pattern.
There is sooooo much science in the Bible that man said different until they were proven wrong.
The Bible says the ocean has currents
Maury 'discovered' this
EagleSpeak: Sunday Ship History: "The Pathfinder of the Sea"

More science and the Bible
Science and the Bible

[inthebox]

How do atheists address or deal with the issue of why there is [so much] pain and suffering?




Grace and Peace

[NeedKarma]

silentrascal disagrees: The sarcasm was uncalled for.

There is not one other person non this board that give out reddies (Disagrees) more than you. Whatever cult you are involved with it apparently involves arguing with everyone.

[ordinaryguy]

How do atheists adress or deal with the issue of why there is [so much] pain and suffering?

I'm an apatheist, not an atheist, but I just accept it--pain and suffering are facts of material life, not an "issue". What makes it an issue is believing that God could prevent it if he wanted to, or worse yet, causes it deliberately.

[inthebox]

So is it because there is pain and suffering that atheists / agnostics don't believe in God, or at least a "good" one that is omnipotent?

Because how can an all powerful benevolent God allow this?

How does one know that a malevolent god is not the cause of pain and suffering?





Grace and Peace

[NeedKarma]

So is it because there is pain and suffering that atheists / agnostics don't believe in God

Nah, that's the sole reason by a long shot (and remember it's not just your God but any god). I can only speak for myself of course but my reasons have mainly to do with having travelled extensively and met great people regardless of faiths and met some very misguided people because of their faith (intolerance, preaching, hypocritical). Plus my education doesn't add with the fables of the bible. I chose to live my life on my own and am having a great time doing so.

[albear]

So is it because there is pain and suffering that atheists / agnostics don't believe in God, or at least a "good" one that is omnipotent?

Because how can an all powerful benevolent God allow this?

How does one know that a malevolent god is not the cause of pain and suffering?





Grace and Peace

Not 'just' because', I mean I see no real reason to believe there is one, OK the constant pain and suffering thing is kind of fuel for our fire not to believe, but still igo by what I can see.

[macksmom]

So is it because there is pain and suffering that atheists / agnostics don't believe in God, or at least a "good" one that is omnipotent?

Because how can an all powerful benevolent God allow this?

How does one know that a malevolent god is not the cause of pain and suffering?





Grace and Peace

There is not just "one" reason why we don't believe... just like there is not "one" sole reason why you do believe.