[spiffyness101]

It's fine. No worries. End of the day is never the best time to think to deeply. :)

[Thesecretsociety]

Why let me first say I just created this account off seeing this site and this question alone. So by this I mean to say to not count me out on any debates because of my low thread count. Well everyone my comment is on the person who stated the wikipedia page about the bibles inconsistencies along with anyone who mentions them. Let me first state my side on them. The inconsistencies arnt true in the sense on how we take them. The bible was written in its original form and the way it was translated has caused many errors. Many terms in hebrew are different then what they are stated in english. These problems cause enough damage on their own, but another problem is the way we all think. Currently the way we think also will damage the way we interpret. When sin entered the world it also brought change into the world, and what greater way for sin to infect us was our mind. Almost all knowledge we have currently comes from the greeks, so now how can we have perfect knowledge? Our minds, they alone are also flawed and any knowledge we get from God also will be hard to understand. Let me say that I'm not saying what we know is wrong, but flawed. And the worst part is in the coming ages they state to us that the debate is basically science VS Christianity, and knowledge vs Christianity, but that is far from the truth. God created the world, God created all knowledge, so this is science. But I'm sorry this is all leaving room for another debate.

The main question was about Atheists and not believeing. One of the true answers is it is more convenient to not believe. Another is the as much as the mind is set to believe something, they chose that something to be science. The raise of atheists is caused by the raised of separation of Science from Christianity. This idea was started back in the early american days when they started to separate Church from state. We had it backwards then and still do. The person who thought the idea meant it as, we need to take the state out of the church. AS Church being the Primary (Masculine if you will) and state being the secondary. Atheists do not believe because in this day and age everything is against the Christians. This keeps proving all Christians wrong because they try to prove everything with only Christianity. This is why we cannot fully debate. The world was created as a whole, so you cannot take a half and attack the other. The reason Atheists believe is either , A) Ignorace, B) Laziness and C) They are too smart for their own good. They believe all that we have learned and the flaws that we teach as true. But by that I sound as if I am insulting them, but no , even in christianity A and B are true, for 66.6% of people that believe in anything will fall under that. The C is caused by the fact of they believe in science, which what they don't realise , is science makes no sense without a start. And the bible states the start. And what most Christians don't realise is the bible doesn't make sense if you don't include Science, for nothing even in Gods power just happens. People won't understand what I mean by that and mis interpret it. By that I mean, to bake a cake God could just create it. But something's , they are done , but they don't just happen. To cleanse someone of a disease, you can't just instantly get rid of it. There are micorganisms that go one by one. Even if they instantly disappear, micro-organisms are still SCIENCE. So sorry if this is a crazy overkill or confusing answer. I wanted to state my few cents on this topic. :)

[spiffyness101]

Well first I do understand what you're saying and where you are coming from. A lot of it makes complete sense and very well thought out I must add.

I completely agree that it is more convenient to not believe than to believe;that's true. Everything has a beginning, I'm a big believer in that; that nothing just happened randomly or just "poofed". Though I like very much how you have stated things and helped me put certain thoughts I have into actual, understandable words. You have pretty much said it all. :)

[ordinaryguy]

I also think if you read the entire Quran, there are certain different things which might make you think more on certain subjects.

I hope so, and I'm looking forward to it.

About the end of the world, are you not a Christian?
If so I always assumed that we shared similar views on the world ending some day and that Jesus (alaihi salaam)will descend near the end times etc.
Do you not believe in an end of the world and a life after death?
I ask out of curiosity and not as a challenge.

No, I'm not a Christian, at least not in the sense of being an adherent of any particular creed or doctrinal interpretation of the Bible. As to what the future holds, I simply don't know. Religious doctrines that deal with the future and the past don't interest me at all. As far as I can tell, the life of the spirit takes place entirely in the present, and if I can be attentive and mindful enough to get that right, I have faith that whatever the future brings will be fine.

Are you saying that you believe in receieving direct revelations from the Almighty in this day and age?

Sure, why not?

Or are you saying that some are specially chosen to revive religious doctrines?

I don't think it has much to do with religious doctrines, but yes, everybody has the capacity to receive directly whatever information or guidance they need to fulfill their life's purpose and be harmoniously related to the greater whole. But we do have to ask with sincerity, and be prepared to act on what we're given.

[Synnen]

It's more convenient to not believe than to believe? Are you KIDDING?

With all the pressure (especially in the US) to conform to Christian standards in EVERYTHING ("In God We Trust", anyone?), how can you POSSIBLY think it's more convenient to NOT believe?

It's more convenient to say you're Christian, do what you want anyway, and pray for forgiveness before dying so that you don't go to hell. And who on their deathbed isn't truly repenting?

It's HARD to have a faith other than Christianity in this country, and it's even harder to not believe at all. If there is no OTHER reason, there's always the fact that as soon as someone finds out you don't believe, they try to convert you!

[talaniman]

The reason Atheists believe is either , A) Ignorace, B) Laziness and C) They are too smart for their own good.

That is pretty presumptuous of you, since you haven't really asked anyone how they feel, and of the answers present in this thread your assumptions are not among them, and just because science is the basis of their thinking doesn't make them wrong, they just don't share your faith system. Different does not equate to inferior as you allude. Welcome to the forum.

[spiffyness101]

It's more convenient to not believe than to believe? Are you KIDDING?

With all the pressure (especially in the US) to conform to Christian standards in EVERYTHING ("In God We Trust", anyone?), how can you POSSIBLY think it's more convenient to NOT believe?

It's more convenient to say you're Christian, do what you want anyway, and pray for forgiveness before dying so that you don't go to hell. And who on their deathbed isn't truly repenting?

It's HARD to have a faith other than Christianity in this country, and it's even harder to not believe at all. If there is no OTHER reason, there's always the fact that as soon as someone finds out you don't believe, they try to convert you!

Its more convenient, easier, to not believe in something than to believe in something; yes. It's eaasier to deny existence than accept it. It's just as hard to be a Christian a lot of times as well because people look upon you as this "perfect, always does right" person... People will ask "are you a christian?" and I'll answer "Yes" and their look, attitude and everything else completely changes. If you make one mistake they then say "You're a christian, you're not supposed to make mistakes." That's from experience right there. Then there's the fact that people judge; believers too, heck I'll admit it; I'm not perfect.

There's the right way and wrong way to try and share the gospel. A lot of times it's those telling you that if you don't repent now you'll end up in hell trying to force it down your throat. That's the wrong way;sadly. It truly does depend on the person and how others present it. I'm sorry if that is something you have personally experienced. : /

[Thesecretsociety]

It's more convenient to not believe than to believe? Are you KIDDING?

With all the pressure (especially in the US) to conform to Christian standards in EVERYTHING ("In God We Trust", anyone?), how can you POSSIBLY think it's more convenient to NOT believe?

It's more convenient to say you're Christian, do what you want anyway, and pray for forgiveness before dying so that you don't go to hell. And who on their deathbed isn't truly repenting?

It's HARD to have a faith other than Christianity in this country, and it's even harder to not believe at all. If there is no OTHER reason, there's always the fact that as soon as someone finds out you don't believe, they try to convert you!

Its more convenient for the hypocrites to be christians, just as it is for the Athiests who just don't care. Conveniences goes both ways, I forgot to say that. Don't bring America into this because America isn't forcing anyone to be Christian, America itself is fighting to become anti Christian. That's why people are trying to get "Under God" taken away, and "In god we trust" taken away. Convenience goes both ways, but Christianity isn't the major part of the world. If we look into things you'll notice that convenience doesn't make someone change a side, convenience makes them conform. But People also out of convenience sometimes chose Christianity and that causes people to be the hypocritical christians that you can't really even call Christians. B/c anyone that is a Christian, but doesn't do as a Christian is instructed to do is nothing. Chrisitianity doesn't say "Call to God when in need and he will help" It says nothing like that , and people who think it is like that arnt real Christians.

[Thesecretsociety]

That is pretty presumptuous of you, since you haven't really asked anyone how they feel, and of the answers present in this thread your assumptions are not among them, and just because science is the basis of their thinking doesn't make them wrong, they just don't share your faith system. Different does not equate to inferior as you allude. Welcome to the forum.

I never said that they were inferior and I never meant to make it seem that way. What I was stating is that the Atheistic increase started from a separation of Science from Christianity. Though I didn't finish my whole statement there so I'm sorry if I make it seem as if those are the only options, those are really the main things. If you ask most Atheists why they don't believe, they either will A) Shrug you off, B) I don't have faith in someone I can't see (which doesn't make sense cause a good bit of Atheists believe in Evolution which takes just as much faith) or C) They have a scientific reason. There are other means to which people believe but Science if you look deep down is the actual basis for everyone's stance. Christians and Atheists alike have their issues. But I didn't say believing in science is wrong , I said the believe that science stands alone is wrong, also the belief that God isn't the lead of science. Science has a bunch of loop holes if you look at it. Believing in that takes just as much faith. What people don't realise is that at this current point, science cannot tell you everything, because science at this current point is still looking back to the greeks for our knowledge. But that's totally off topic. But I did not mean to allude to anyone being inferior, no one is inferior for we all are humans. And though we have our differences, we all are equal.

[talaniman]

I agree science has holes in it only because our knowledge is limited.

[ordinaryguy]

Then how can something be believable and true if their are contradictions and such? It wouldn't be true then if their were...That would mean you only half believe of what it says. Just doesn't seem to make to much sense...

For me, it has very little to do with belief. I just try to absorb and meditate on the parts that speak to my needs at a particular time, and lay the rest aside for another time. Also, paradoxes and conundrums serve a useful purpose by giving the logical mind something to keep it occupied while the real work goes on elsewhere. Kind of like giving a puppy a chew toy so he doesn't tear up the furniture. Trying to plumb the depths of ineffable mysteries with nothing but the logical mind creates all kinds of mischief, both within and between people.

[ordinaryguy]

The main question was about Atheists and not believeing. One of the true answers is it is more convenient to not believe. Another is the as much as the mind is set to believe something, they chose that something to be science.

Wouldn't it be better to just let the atheists answer the question of why they don't believe? The reasons you gave weren't mentioned by any of the atheists who have responded to the question so far. Do you suppose that you have greater insight into the reasons they don't believe than they have themselves?

[jillianleab]

Boy I get a kick out of people who say it takes as much faith to believe in science as it does to believe in a god. Makes me smirk and roll my eyes every time I read it...

What individuals who say that don't seem to realize it that scientific theories aren't guesses (that would be a hypothesis), and science is always working to improve itself and prove/disprove itself. That means if tomorrow scientists make the remarkable discovery that theory XYZ as we know it is wrong, and here is the proof - millions of people who hold the theory of XYZ as a truth will change their minds. Can the same be said for religion? Hmmm, perhaps for some, but probably not for most.

[ordinaryguy]

There are other means to which people believe but Science if you look deep down is the actual basis for everyone's stance. Christians and Atheists alike have their issues. But I didn't say believing in science is wrong , I said the believe that science stands alone is wrong, also the belief that God isn't the lead of science. Science has a bunch of loop holes if you look at it. Believing in that takes just as much faith.

You seem to have a basic misconception about what "science" is. It's not a creed or a set of facts or conclusions to be believed or rejected, it's just a method of investigation, a technique for continually improving on explanations for phenomena and our observations of them. It doesn't require "faith", except in the mundane sense of trusting our ability to observe and measure things to a known degree of accuracy, and to reason logically in interpreting what we observe and measure. Of course, like any tool, it has its limitations, but it works very well for the kinds of questions it was designed to answer, such as, "How does this thing work?" It isn't so well suited for questions like "Why is there something rather than nothing?" or "What existed before the beginning?" or "Does God exist?"

And though we have our differences, we all are equal.

I will gladly say "Amen" to that.

[Capuchin]

science is always working to improve itself and prove/disprove itself.

That's the amazing thing about science that people don't realise and I think it needs saying again. It's set up to prove itself wrong. There's always things that scientists can say "if we observed this, then this theory is wrong". And scientists actively search for that piece of evidence that would prove a theory wrong. That's what the difference between science and religion is.

[spiffyness101]

It doesn't require "faith", except in the mundane sense of trusting our ability to observe and measure things to a known degree of accuracy, and to reason logically in interpreting what we observe and measure. Of course, like any tool, it has its limitations, but it works very well for the kinds of questions it was designed to answer, such as, "How does this thing work?".

Science is harder to believe or "trust" in because it changes daily and rapidly before our eyes. So say you trust in some new discovery and you soon find out that it's not true and so they come up with other ideas and such. Trying to trust or believe in something that constantly changes is more difficult to put your trust in unlike God, Christ, whom never changes; He is immutable and unchanging. Isn't that easier to trust and believe in..

[Synnen]

Honestly... I'd say that a god that never changes is scarier than science that changes all the time. Things that never change are unnatural. There is nothing in this world that over time has not changed - today's mountain is tomorrow's riverbed.

I think this is a matter of perspective. To some, God and Jesus are comforting and science is hard to trust. To others, Science is comforting with its logic, and God and Jesus are hard to trust.

[rockerchick_682]

What I don't understand, is why you believe god exists. Ok... God created everything in the world, but who created God? What proof do we have? And if God loves us so much, then why are all these terrible things still happening? I think religion is a good thing, keeps your morals and values straight, but I've never had and never will have faith.

[ordinaryguy]

Science is harder to believe or "trust" in because it changes daily and rapidly before our eyes. So say you trust in some new discovery and you soon find out that it's not true and so they come up with other ideas and such. Trying to trust or believe in something that constantly changes is more difficult to put your trust in unlike God, Christ, whom never changes; He is immutable and unchanging. Isn't that easier to trust and believe in..

Well, yes, as several have said, science is all about challenging current explanations for observable phenomena, so if rigid inflexibility is what you're looking for, religious dogma is a much better fit. Enjoy!

[spiffyness101]

What I don't understand, is why you believe god exists. Ok....God created everything in the world, but who created God? What proof do we have? And if God loves us so much, then why are all these terrible things still happening? I think religion is a good thing, keeps your morals and values straight, but I've never had and never will have faith.

I've always wondered that myself,"Who created God?" but that is just where faith comes into play. I underdstand a lot of people need proof and logic to comprehend it. But we do have proof that there is a God or a higher being if you will. C.S. Lewis once said that "Pain and death is God's microphone to deaf world." Bad things happen for many reasons, reasons we may not even see or understand half the time, to teach us, build us up, let Him be known and seen... But it doesn't mean that the bad is going unnoticed.