[inthebox]

Thank you for your replies.



If there is no "provable" God,

It is easy to accept joy, pleasure , happiness but how so

Sadness, pain, suffering?

Is it "that's just the facts." and go on?








Grace and Peace

[excon]

Hello again, in:

If I started considering the reasons I don't believe in Santa Clause, I'd crack myself up.

It's not difficult to understand how we feel. Sit down. Get yourself in a real serious frame of mine. Begin to consider the reasons you don't believe in the tooth fairy. Tell me you're not smiling. Death and destruction in the world have NOTHING to do with your belief in the tooth fairy, does it??

I know you think God is on a higher plain than the tooth fairy, but I don't.

excon

[jillianleab]

How do atheists adress or deal with the issue of why there is [so much] pain and suffering?

Grace and Peace

Certainly it would be easy to say, "Look at the pain and suffering in the world! There's PROOF there is no god! A loving god would NEVER let that happen!" But alas, that's a little petty (to me). That's like saying your "proof" for god is the goodness in the world - nothing else, just the goodness. It's not as simple as that.

I address pain and suffering the same way I address joy and happiness - it's part of life. People do horrible things to each other, but they also can be quite nice. Nature can do horrible things to people, but it too, can be quite nice. So to me, pain and suffering and joy and happiness in the world or in my life have no bearing on my lack of belief at all. Doesn't even come into the equation. The atheists I know all credit people to their actions, so if you are an alcoholic and you turn your life around, it's not "god" who saved you, you did it yourself. If you run into a time in your life where bad things happen to you, it's not "god" punishing you, it's the way things go, or it's because of the choices you made. Personal responsibility and accountability is big to me; I try not to blame someone for my wrongdoings and I certainly don't credit someone else for my accomplishments!

What you must remember for many atheists is that we have the feeling of "completeness" and fulfillment in our lives without a god. I know that's a tough thing for devout believers to fully understand, but it's true. I don't feel a void, but I understand many people would if they didn't have faith. Some people need religion and faith to make themselves feel whole; atheists, in general, do not. That's not to say one is better or right over the other, but simply different. I think I've written something similar to that pages and pages ago! :)

[albear]

Thank you for your replies.

If there is no "provable" God,

it is easy to accept joy, pleasure , happiness but how so

sadness, pain, suffering?

Is it "that's just the facts." and go on?

Grace and Peace

For me it is

[taurusss]

A true religion isn't pretending... Just look for the right one! Invest before you can ever talk like that in general... religion isn't something simple and it needs a lot of investment before you can ever be happy believing in something and never forget: what you believe is always real (this goes for excon)

[Synnen]

a true religion isn't pretending... Just look for the right one! invest before you can ever talk like that in general... religion isn't something simple and it needs a lot of investment before you can ever be happy believing in something and never forget: what you believe is always real (this goes for excon)

Maybe I'm reading this wrong--but what makes you think that believing nothing is any less real than believing in some god? Atheism takes a lot of investment too--think of how hard it is to stand by your belief of no god when there are so many people pushing you to believe in one!

As long as you're happy, and don't harm others--what does it matter what people do and don't believe in anyway?

[inthebox]

Ok, on a lighter note,


When an atheist hits their thumb with a hammer by accident or stubs their toe do they say
"science dam.t"
Or "darwin dam.t" ?


Or in reaction to something incredible or so fear inducing do you say'

"OH!"
"Oh my darwin!"
Or "Oh my science?" ;)




Grace and Peace

[startover22]

I think I would say Oh Chit!
Sorry.. I know this is a serious thread. But dang you guys, are you asking because you want to know or asking cause you want to start drama??
EDIT:::::
Never mind, I am going to stay out of this one...

[inthebox]

No


No drama - I'll stop with the lighter stuff






Grace and Peace

[Unforgettable]

As a believer in The Creator of the worlds, I have always wondered how an atheist comes to the conclusion that God is non existent ?
Please do not think that I am going to argue your points,just curious!!!:confused:

Thanks in advance.

I personally don't believe in God or a greater power. We didn't evolve from Adam and Eve.We acually evolved from neanderthals. I believe reincarnation. I belive that when people die they turn into something beautiful that we see everyday. I'm not gonna believe in something I've never seen.

[jillianleab]

Ok, on a lighter note,


When an atheist hits thier thumb with a hammer by accident or stubs thier toe do they say
"science dam.t"
or "darwin dam.t" ?


Or in reaction to something incredible or so fear inducing do you say'

"OH!"
"Oh my darwin!"
or "Oh my science?" ;)

Grace and Peace

I'll play nice! :)

I have a friend who used to say, "Me Dam.t!!!" That was pretty funny. :)

And I've got to say, depending on how bad I hurt myself, I might let a whole string of curses loose... Some include cursing god, though I suppose I could start saying, "Santa dam.t!". Nah, doesn't "feel" right... :)

[Capuchin]

I thought that Goddamnit came from the concept that God punishes with eternal damnation, and so you are asking God to damn whatever caused you to use the profanity, like that door you just stubbed your toe on or whatever, it should be damned forever for stubbing your toe!

Science, Santa and the tooth fairy are much more benevolent inventions, and have no need to punish with damnation.

[retsoksirhc]

Well haven't posted here in awhile but I have a question. First I will say yes I am a Christian and no I won't judge you if you aren't. Okay so heres the question:

If you are an atheist, claiming that there is no God or anything, why do you believe that? Aside from science and everything else why do YOU personal believe that there is no God? I'm just asking why do you believe what you do. What is your personal view and outloook. Way back in this forum someone had said that no one was asking what atheists believe. So now its your turn, why? I'm just really curious to hear.

If you think of all the questions to which a christian might answer "Because it's part of the divine plan", for instance, Why does god allow bad things to happen to good people, most of them will be a reason I choose not to believe in the biblical god.

Examples:
Suffering
Starvation
Racial Superiority (Not realistically, but in stereotyopes)
So called "Luck"
Greed
Vengefulness
War


But most of all, it's because of the people who DO go to church. Not all of them, probably not most of them in general, but most of them where I'm from don't practice what they preach. A prime example would be when I actually did attend services still, at my parent's church. We had a closed circuit TV connection to the nursing home next door. Every week, one family was supposed to help out getting all the old folks who wanted to go into the room, help with the music, bibles, and whatnot. Of course, rarely ever did they go. I started going there every week to help the guy from the church who organized it. I did this every Sunday, for about a year and a half. My sister kept having people tell her that I should really be in church, and that I wasn't a very good Christian for not going. One day when I actually went into the church rather than go to the nursing home, I got so many comments from people, including the pastor's wife, about how glad they were that I decided to come back to worship with them. I consider it pretty rude for them to be happy that I'm not helping anyone, and having people talk down on you, just because you're not in church, even though they should know you've been working at the nursing home because they're supposed to help out there too... well, it kindof makes you lose faith in people.

I'm fine with there being a god. It explains why in a closed system (IE Universe) the level of entropy decreases, and evolution happens. By god, I just mean an influential force, be it divine, alien, characterized through beliefs and feelings. Whatever the case, I believe there is something. Just not the same something that Christians believe is there.

[startover22]

I have to admit, I don't say Gods name in vane... ever... I even write OMGosh instead of OMG... There are guilt factors weighing in from when I was a kid... so I stick with OH CHIT!!

[albear]

Ok, on a lighter note,


When an atheist hits thier thumb with a hammer by accident or stubs thier toe do they say
"science dam.t"
or "darwin dam.t" ?


Or in reaction to something incredible or so fear inducing do you say'

"OH!"
"Oh my darwin!"
or "Oh my science?" ;)


Grace and Peace

Why would we its not blasphemy when atheists say 'god damm it'

[beatlejuice]

There is no such thing as an athiests, so called atheists are agnostic. They just know if there is a God.

[NeedKarma]

There is no such thing as an athiests, so called atheists are agnostic. They just know if there is a God.

This reasoning method has been tried before and failed. I suggest not going down that route. ;)

[beatlejuice]

If you think of all the questions to which a christian might answer "Because it's part of the divine plan", for instance, Why does god allow bad things to happen to good people, most of them will be a reason I choose not to believe in the biblical god.

Examples:
Suffering
Starvation
Racial Superiority (Not realistically, but in stereotyopes)
So called "Luck"
Greed
Vengefulness
War


But most of all, it's because of the people who DO go to church. Not all of them, probably not most of them in general, but most of them where I'm from don't practice what they preach. A prime example would be when I actually did attend services still, at my parent's church. We had a closed circuit TV connection to the nursing home next door. Every week, one family was supposed to help out getting all the old folks who wanted to go into the room, help with the music, bibles, and whatnot. Of course, rarely ever did they go. I started going there every week to help the guy from the church who organized it. I did this every sunday, for about a year and a half. My sister kept having people tell her that I should really be in church, and that I wasn't a very good Christian for not going. One day when I actually went into the church rather than go to the nursing home, I got so many comments from people, including the pastor's wife, about how glad they were that I decided to come back to worship with them. I consider it pretty rude for them to be happy that I'm not helping anyone, and having people talk down on you, just because you're not in church, even though they should know you've been working at the nursing home because they're supposed to help out there too...well, it kindof makes you lose faith in people.

I'm fine with there being a god. It explains why in a closed system (IE Universe) the level of entropy decreases, and evolution happens. By god, I just mean an influential force, be it divine, alien, characterized through beliefs and feelings. Whatever the case, I believe there is somthing. Just not the same somthing that Christians believe is there.

The reason why God allows suffering is because God can not go against his word. It is impossible for him to lie or go against His word. In the Bible when God created man he said " Let us create them in our likeness and let us give them dominion over the earth" Because of this statement God Has only given man/physical beings the ability to make an effect on the earth. That means that no spiritual beings God, angels, demons etc can do anything on earth unless a Human is envolved. That is why through out the bible what ever God did he did through a man. That is why when Demons want to do any evil on earth they possess a man inorder to do so. That is why God has called us Christians to feed the poor and clothe the naked in His name because God can not just stick His hands out of the sky and hand out clothes and feed hungry people. He does Good through his people because he has given US dominion over the earth and God is a God of principle. He said His word is greater than He is and therefore he can not make a declariation and later go against it. So we as human have created the mess on this earth and it is up to us to change it and help the suffering.

[NeedKarma]

That is why throught out the bible what ever God did he did through a man.

What about the burning bush? The snake that talks?

[ordinaryguy]

If there is no "provable" God,

it is easy to accept joy, pleasure , happiness but how so

sadness, pain, suffering?

Is it "that's just the facts." and go on?

I'm sure it's harder to accept sadness, pain, and suffering than to accept joy and pleasure no matter what you believe about supernatural beings. But trying to reconcile a belief in a personal and all-powerful God with the fact of our own suffering just adds a conceptual dimension to the problem.

In my own times of loss and disappointment, I haven't found a belief in (that kind of) God to be very helpful in reaching a state of acceptance. Seeing life from a perspective where joy and sorrow are equally necessary and useful in learning wisdom and compassion, has helped at times, when I could attain that view.