[speechlesstx]

In case you hadn't heard...

A San Diego public school has become part of a national debate over religion in schools ever since a substitute teacher publicly condemned an Arabic language program that gives Muslim students time for prayer during school hours.

Carver Elementary in Oak Park added Arabic to its curriculum in September when it suddenly absorbed more than 100 students from a defunct charter school that had served mostly Somali Muslims.

After subbing at Carver, the teacher claimed that religious indoctrination was taking place and said that a school aide had led Muslim students in prayer.

An investigation by the San Diego Unified School District failed to substantiate the allegations. But critics continue to assail Carver for providing a 15-minute break in the classroom each afternoon to accommodate Muslim students who wish to pray. (Those who don't pray can read or write during that non-instructional time.)

Some say the arrangement at Carver constitutes special treatment for a specific religion that is not extended to other faiths. Others believe it crosses the line into endorsement of religion.

Supporters of Carver say such an accommodation is legal, if not mandatory, under the law. They note the district and others have been sued for not accommodating religious needs on the same level as non-religious needs, such as a medical appointment.

Islam requires its adherents to pray at prescribed times, one of which falls during the school day.

Of course the San Diego Unified School District "failed to substantiate the allegations," they really have no choice but to fail to substantiate the allegations.

As I heard it from Roger Hedgecock (not just a conservative talk radio host but former mayor of San Diego), this substitute was handed a lesson plan which included one hour to pray. She asked if it was a typo, if they meant one hour to play, but she was told no it means pray. At the appointed time an aide came in, closed the blinds in this class of strictly Muslim girls and led them in prayer.

A CAIR spokesmen of course brushed it off as no different then other "student led" and initiated religious activities in school. That's the kicker folks, Islam in America does not acknowledge the double standard and is demanding more and more accommodation, from taxi drivers refusing to carry passengers suspected of having alcohol, to taxpayer funded foot basins in public restrooms - and universities. The University of Michigan-Dearborn plans to spend $25,000 for foot-washing stations. Meanwhile, William and Mary is removing crosses from their chapel.

I think you'd better wake up folks... how do you feel about it?

[ETWolverine]

Well, it seems to me that if the public schools system is going to allow Muslim prayer, then they have no right to claim that Christian prayer isn't allowed in public schools. What's good for the goose ought to be good enough for the gander.

I don't have a problem with voluntary school prayer. In fact, I endorse it wholeheartedly. But for ALL groups, not just the one that is politically correct at this moment. Or if we are going to ban it, then it should be banned for all groups equally.

This would seem to be a no-brainer to me. But apparently I lack the necessary subtlety of understanding of the difference between Muslim school prayer and Christian school prayer to be politically correct. :rolleyes:

Elliot

[speechlesstx]

I don't have a problem with voluntary school prayer. In fact, I endorse it wholeheartedly. But for ALL groups, not just the one that is politically correct at this moment. Or if we are going to ban it, then it should be banned for all groups equally.

Thanks, Elliot. Precisely, but not only 'voluntary,' but student-led, student initiated, without preferring one religion over another, and without taxpayer funding. Wasn't that the accepted formula? Apparently, unless you're a Muslim - then you can get a segregated room and taxpayer funded wash basins.

[Wondergirl]

It's fine with me. And why aren't the Christian students gathering during this time to pray, if Christians are so het up about the Muslims praying? Buddhists can meditate, Scientologists can pair up with an e-meter, etc.

[speechlesstx]

Scientologists can pair up with an e-meter, etc.

Lol...

I'm sure many a Christian does gather to pray at school, but it isn't part of the lesson plan.

[iAMfromHuntersBar]

I don't see a problem with this... like wondergirl said, so long as others are allowed to spend this time praying it's all good!

In both my Roman Catholic Primary and Secondary schools (in the UK) we would say the Lord's Prayer every morning... and sing hymns in assembly!

At the start of every French lesson we would recite a Hail Mary... in French! (Brilliant fun - honest! Lol!)

We learned about all sorts of different religions in R.E. (Religious Education) lessons which I feel has given me a better outlook on other cultures.

My only concern is that news stories like this will spread hatred as people see this as 'special treatment' another case of 'us and them' and yet further alienates these two sections of society!

[ETWolverine]

At the start of every French lesson we would recite a Hail Mary ... in French! (Brilliant fun - honest! lol!)

You think that's cool, try this.

"Avinu Shebashamayim, yivarechecha et shimecha. Malchutcha yavo, retzonecha na'aseh, ba'aretz k'mo shebashamayim. Tain lanu lachmenu shel yomayim, u'mechal et chatenu, k'mo she'anachnu mochlim kol sh'chatah lanu. Al tanig otanu l'ta'avah, v'shuv otanu me'rah, ki shelcha ha'malchut, v'hakoach, vhakavod, ad olam."

That would be the Lord's Prayer translated into Hebrew.

Not really my thing, as I am Jewish, but a friend of mine translated it for the fun of it. Enjoy.

Elliot

[speechlesstx]

This "prayer time" is a short release period, not part of the lesson plan.

That's yet to be determined for sure. Did you read the original post? The assertion from the substitute was she was handed a lesson plan (or schedule) which included one hour to pray, at which time a school aide came in and led them in prayer. If that report is true then we've got trouble...

[Wondergirl]

I would find out what REALLY is happening. I'll even visit the school and observe, if tomder floats me a loan to fly there and stay at a nice hotel. (I'll pay for my own meals.)

No one can make a "decision" here based on what "the teacher said" and "allegations" and "assertions from the sub", etc. It's like four people each on a corner of the intersection watching a car accident take place. POV is extremely subjective -- can vary depending on where you are and what your experiences have been and even how hungry you are.

[tomder55]

I'll even visit the school and observe, if tomder floats me a loan to fly there and stay at a nice hotel. (I'll pay for my own meals.)

Tomder inc does on occasion hire independent sourse to go on fact finding missions but we have had serious questions of the utility of such missions since Joe Wilson returned from Niger. Do you drink mint tea by the pool side ?

[speechlesstx]

I would find out what REALLY is happening. I'll even visit the school and observe, if tomder floats me a loan to fly there and stay at a nice hotel. (I'll pay for my own meals.)

No one can make a "decision" here based on what "the teacher said" and "allegations" and "assertions from the sub", etc. It's like four people each on a corner of the intersection watching a car accident take place. POV is extremely subjective -- can vary depending on where you are and what your experiences have been and even how hungry you are.

Now wait a minute, if anyone is going to get funded to to investigate in San Diego it's going to be me. Get me there for some some fish tacos and Corona and then I'll personally look into this matter.

[Wondergirl]

Sorry, speechless. My request was on the table first. I heard that tomder was planning to send you somewhere else. I hope you have lots of warm clothes.

[speechlesstx]

Sorry, speechless. My request was on the table first. I heard that tomder was planning to send you somewhere else. I hope you have lots of warm clothes.

Nah, Tomder, inc. wouldn't do that to me, would you tom? :D

[Wondergirl]

Of course he wouldn't, speechless.

*packing my bikini*

*reserving a room at an oceanside hotel*

*calling SoCal friends to plan parties*

[tomder55]

Lets put it this way... I wouldn't ask someone to do anything that I wouldn't do myself.

Fyi . I am taking some vacation time in Alaska soon !