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Staceytucker122406 · Jul 5, 2007, 06:10 AM

Ok... long story as short as possible. Our lease agreement with the tenants that are renting home is up on July 31st. They decided that they are not paying July's rent because believe that we are behind on our mortgage. Regardless, we gave them a 3 day notice to vacate the premises and 24 notice to inspect the premises. Well... not to any surprise, they tried to say we couldn't come and blah blah, we went anyway, they were not there but they had her parents there and we did the walk through and went outside to finish taking pictures and my husband went back up to the house to try the key to make sure the locks hadn't been changed and the girls mother wouldn't let him try it, so I called the police and she decided to admit that they had the locks changed. WHAT ARE OUR RIGHTS?? I know they are not allowed to change the locks, but I don't know exactly what we can do?? HELP!

ScottGem · Jul 5, 2007, 06:18 AM

You can withhold the cost of restoring the locks or replacing them from their deposit.

They have violated the lease, but they already did that by not paying July.

You appear to have started the process for eviction with the 3 day notice. Continue the process.

Staceytucker122406 · Jul 5, 2007, 06:23 AM

The thing is, there is nothing left of their deposit. Technically since they didn't pay rent, there deposit is gone. I was really hoping that I would have a stronger avenue than just changing the locks back and trying to collect from them.

ScottGem · Jul 5, 2007, 06:29 AM

Sorry, but no. What they did was not illegal in any sense other than the violation of their contract. Your only redress for a breach of contract is to withhold escrow funds or sue for damages. You may be able to make this part of the eviction proceedings.

However, they will have to turn over the keys to you. So you can just make dups. But its not uncommon to rekey locks when a tenant moves.

Staceytucker122406 · Jul 5, 2007, 06:32 AM

Ok, well lets say that we file the eviction on Monday morning and include a dollar amount for damages. When it goes to court and they bring up our mortgage issue, is that relevant??

excon · Jul 5, 2007, 06:47 AM

Hello Stacy:

Whether you paid your mortgage has NOTHING to do with whether they paid their rent.

I suggest you become familiar with your states landlord tenant laws too. After all, they ARE the rules you must go by, and you wouldn't play poker without knowing the rules, would you?

You can find a copy right here on our forum at the top in a sticky note.

excon

ScottGem · Jul 5, 2007, 06:48 AM

Not in the least! Your personal finances have absolutely NO bearing on their contractual oblligation. In fact, if I were the judge and they told me they were withholding rent they were obligated to pay because they heard you were having financial problems I would throw the book at them. That would mean they were not only breaching their contract, but deliberately contributing to your financial hardships to boot. I'm really curious where they got the idea that you having financial problems gives them the right to not pay. Even if you were going through foreclosue they would be required to pay for the time they occupy the house.

So I would hope they DO bring it up as it would most likely harden the judge against them.

Keep us posted. And hope you have better luck with your next tenant.

Staceytucker122406 · Jul 5, 2007, 06:53 AM

There will not be another tenant. We are desperately seeking a buyer for the home. I have no desire what so ever to continue to rent the property. It is a very cute little house that we busted our rear ends making look nice and they are parking in the front yard and everything. It has been a complete nightmare and to make it worse, they were friends (or so called friends) prior to renting from us. Also, we are in foreclosure as of 2 weeks ago, they (well she) called my mortgage company and pretended to be me. I wish I knew exactly what to do because these people are incredible to say the least.

ScottGem · Jul 5, 2007, 07:20 AM

Well I wish you luck trying to sell it then. Have you talked to the mortgage lender about a short sale? When is the foreclosure sale set for?

Staceytucker122406 · Jul 18, 2007, 07:16 AM

HELP!! We have been having on-going major problems with out tentants. Here is the latest.

We served them with a 3 day notice to leave the premises on July 3rd, for non payment of rent. On that same date we issued 24 notice to inspect the premises. So, the next day we show up, our tenants are not there but her parents are there. (We seem to continually run in to the problem of them wanting to have each of their parents handle there problems, but they are not on the lease.) So, my husband goes in, takes some pictures and goes outside takes some more pictures and then goes back up to the door to make sure our key works, the mother won't let him try it, we call the cops and they admit admit that our tenants changed the locks. So, we have been watching the house to see if they have left and so last night we go to issue another 24 notice to them and come to find huge heavy truck marks in the lawn and it appears they have left. So, we try to enter the house and we are locked out. So, we give up, come home and a little bit later the police call and say are tenants came to the house and the neighbor told them we tried to break in and so on. So, we go back to the house, (again have the problem with the mother of one of the tenants running her mouth) give them 24 hour notice and the female tenant says DO NOT BRING YOUR CAMERA, YOU ARE NOT TAKING ANYMORE PICTURES, YOU HAVE ALREADY TAKEN ENOUGH. IF YOU BRING YOUR CAMERA, WE WILL NOT LET YOU IN. So, what will happen? Don't they have to let us in and don't we have the right to take pictures?? This is so ridiculous! HELP!

ScottGem · Jul 18, 2007, 08:01 AM

How can you be accused of breaking in to premises you own? All you had to do is show the police the notice of inspection.

Yes, you have the right to inspect and record the inspection under the terms of the lease. But you can't force your way in. If they refuse to let you in, call the police. Or get a court order and show up with a sheriff. Tell the court or the police you are afraid they plan to steal fixtures or do spite damage because you are evicting them.

Staceytucker122406 · Jul 18, 2007, 08:13 AM

We are going there tomorrow evening at 7. A police officer is meeting us there. But, last night when she said that she would not let us in if we brought a camera, she said that right in front of the police officer. Why does it feel like I have no rights? They have removed items that they attached to the house (the lease clearly states that anything attached to the house must stay), they changed the locks, they have destroyed the lawn, by parking on it and driving a huge moving truck on to it. The police don't do anything, they continue to listen to her mother ramble on like a lunatice, even though she is not on the lease. The thing that gets me even more, they are moved out, they moved yesterday. I need to get in that house immediately and see what is damaged and so on. They removed my professionally installed shower doors from the bathroom, and they were out in the back yard! I am just frustrated and feel like I need someone to say, OK, here is what you do.

ScottGem · Jul 18, 2007, 08:36 AM

Ok, you served them a notice was it served on 7/3 or was it to leave by 7/3? In either case, the notice date has passed. Did you institute eviction proceedings? Even they it may APPEAR they have moved out, until they officially inform you they have vacated and turn over the keys, they have not done so. If you want to reclaim the property, you need to file for eviction. Once you have the eviction order, you show up with a sheriff and a locksmith. The sheriff oversees your entry into the house, the removal of any property of theirs and the changing of the locks.

You will need to document all damages and take that out of their security deposit. If that's not enough to cover the damages and unpaid rent, you can then sue them for the difference.

It's a shame that their parents raised such irresponsible children and support their continue irresponsibility.

Staceytucker122406 · Jul 18, 2007, 08:52 AM

Well they haven't paid there last months rent. They sent a letter stating that they were using their deposit for the last months rent. So, if we pretend we are at even, then we have damages. The painted my living room with blood red exterior paint! Its on my stained wood work, on my brick around the fireplace. I could go on. The problem is this. I didn't go down and file for eviction because my daughter was in the hospital last week and now that I know they are out (for the most part) is there a way that I can just sue for damages and how do I go about that? And what do I do about the things like the shower door, or the bath accessories that they screwed in to the vanity and have now taken out? Or the cd player they screwed in to my cherry kitchen cabinet and have now removed??

ScottGem · Jul 18, 2007, 09:05 AM

Again they are NOT out. Until they inform you in writing or in front of witnesses that they have vacated the premises and/or turned over the keys they are still occupants. You need to obtain and serve an eviction order unless they officially vacate.

You don't "pretend" you are even. The decision to use the security deposit as the last months rent is NOT theirs to make. While many states allow the landlord to keep security deposits for unpaid rent, it's the dcision of the landlord to do that, not the tenant. The purpose of the security is to insure against damage to the premises. So after you insepct and repair the premises you sue them for any costs of repair over and above the security and you sue them for unpaid rent. You need to document all repairs. Photograph everything. If you have someone come in to do repairs, have them itemize their bill specfically to state "repair of damage to..." or "reinstallation of...". Things like that.

Once you have an accounting of damage repair and unpaid rent, you go to court. If the amount qualifies, use small claims court. Be aware though, that when you win a judgement (as you likely will based on what you have said), you still have to collect. You will need to find where they bank to attach bank accounts or where they work to attach wages.

But you should go down to the court either today or first thing tomorrow to start eviction proceedings.

Staceytucker122406 · Jul 18, 2007, 09:11 AM

If I don't file the eviction, can I still go to small claims court for damages?? I know you are right, and yes I understand that they are not OUT officially. I do believe that it will probably be a day or so and that's it. I meant to ask you and had forgot, are you a landlord or attorney? You are extremely knowledgeable and very helpful. On a side note, you helped me several times before this and the tenants still seem to think that they are going to win based on the foreclosure situation with my property.

ScottGem · Jul 18, 2007, 10:21 AM

The eviction and the suit for damages are two separate issues. You can sue for damages once you have regained possession of the property and made the repairs. The eviction process is only to get control of the property back.

Even if you do think they are on the verge of turning the property back to you, do NOT wait to continue the eviction process. You can always drop the eviction when they turn over the keys. But you don't want to wait any longer.

Actually I'm neither a landlord or attorney, I just have an interest in this area and happen to know a significant amount about it. Now that you jogged my memory, I checked the other thread you posted about this. You do need to get them out ASAP.

Staceytucker122406 · Jul 18, 2007, 10:25 AM

You checked my other thread... and I do need to get them out ASAP?? Why do you say that (I mean I know the obvious reasons) but what are you getting at?

Staceytucker122406 · Jul 20, 2007, 10:22 AM

Hi, I haven't heard back from you so I thought I would check in. I had sent back a repsonse the other day asking what you meant when you said that you read my old thread and I need to get them out asap. You sounded like you were trying to tell me something??

Staceytucker122406 · Jul 20, 2007, 12:32 PM

Ok, so the drama continues. We served a 24 notice to inspect and so the walk through was last night. Because of all the problems, we had a police escort. When he got there we asked him to have everyone leave the house that was not on the lease. Well 10 minutes later he comes back outside and says, they said no. (which meant all of their parents and friends were in the house, small house by the way) His mother took pictures of our car, pictures of us, the entire time we were there. She would even stand a foot from our face and take them. He followed us around the entire time with a camcorder. Meanwhile they all talked bad about us and were trying to intimidate us. It was horrible even though we haven't done anything wrong. Then my husband asked where the shower doors were, and the guy says they are in storage, they will be put back in and my husband made a comment about making sure they were in the house (the other night when we were there, they were laying in the back yard) so then, they say oh OK, we'll just make sure they are in the house, oh good we have that camera, we don't have to get them installed. That is not at all what we said, we don't want them laying outside. So, I say no, they have to be where you found them when you moved in, read your lease. What do you do with people like this?? They are pretty much, actually almost 100% out of the house they just still are in the process of painting the living room (because they painted it blood red with exterior paint) They are just unbelievable.