[labman]

Good work tracking down the excess soap problem. I am a fanatic about identifying the problem in order to solve. I don't see enough soap hanging up anywhere in the washer to cause the problem. Are you sure the washer is filling properly including the rinse cycles? Have you looked in it when it is running? It may fill properly on some cycles and not others.

Another possibility is that your regular soap isn't your regular soap. I know just enough about formulating detergents, to know they are mostly water and have a little of several things in them. I am not sure if anyone is marketing them, but it is possible you got ahold of a concentrate. Or the manufacturer could have accidentally put in too much sudsing agent. It is possible to make a thin detergent that would clean very well without much in the way of suds. Of course, you couldn't sell it any more than a quiet vacuum cleaner. So they put sudsing agents and thickeners in it. Dry detergents often have salt added just to make more volume cheaply.

Check the level while running a regular load. Maybe try a different soap. Do you have any free samples in the back of your cupboard? Let us know what happens. It takes us a while on some problems, but we keep going until we find the answer.

[Momtoafew]

Is it possible to just lengthen my existing standpipe. It is pretty much flush with the wall (at a diagnol), and I was thinking I could buy a 12 inch or so pipe to fit onto this existing pipe. By the way the roto rooter guy looked in my basement and said that there wasn't a huge amount of pipe going into the main line. I took a look and I'd say from the top of my standpipe to the bottom was about 4 feet or so. He was talking about changing out this existing pipe, but I'm thinking that's going to require construction, etc. and huge $$ and I don't even know if that's the problem. I was doing an internet search on maytags and too much soap being put out in the final cycle and couldn't come up with anything helpful. Also, being a mom, I have to say that I find coins, rocks and other debris in my machine all the time. Could a coin or rock be wedged somewhere and causing all these problems. The maytag guy said the machine was fine, but he really didn't spend a huge amount of time looking at things. He just unscrewed the bottom half and looked at the pump and that kind of thing... maybe there's something just under the small holes of the main basket in the machine that's causing me grief? Calling maytag tomorrow, but still will check this board to see if anyone has any more suggestions. Gosh, at this point I just want to move to a new house and buy a new machine! :p

[labman]

I really think you were on to something with it not rinsing completely. Check out your soap and the water level as I said. The Maytag man didn't run a cycle?

If your stand pipe is 4 feet high now, and you make it 5 feet, the water will drain 25% faster. I don't think that is enough.

[speedball1]

Roto Rooter came out again!! 3rd time. No problem in the line. Now, I'm starting to think about calling the Maytag repairman again. Has anyone heard of a washing machine that somehow is clogged up and prevents the suds from flowing correctly??? I noticed that after I washed a load (with little soap), that a lot of the clothes still had soap in them. I rewashed the same load without adding soap, and when opening the lid, noticed it looked like I put a cap full of soap in there... maybe for some reason the soap is getting caught up somewhere in my machine and not discharging at the correct times of the cycle, thus at the end having an enourmous output of suds, of which my drain (or any drain) simply can't take. I'm going to call maytag, and request a different repairman, to see if he can see something that the first guy missed. Any thoughts? Can the soap hide somewhere in the washing machine and then just get aggitated so much that I get this large of an output of suds, meanwhile all my clothes have suds all over them? :mad:

Hi Mom,
No, you don't have "The Washmachine from Hell" It just seems that way. This is what you bought.
http://www.fernco.com/HG.html
Fill the top holes with epoxy and seal it off and you will have solved your problem.
Since the pipe carries away water just fine and suds are mostly air any how seal off the top of the standpipe wit it and your problem will be solved.
Hope you had a great Forth. Tom

[Momtoafew]

All the plumbers (roto rooter) said to NOT fill those holes up, as air is needed around the drain pipe for the water to flow normally. Everything I've read supports this too. I even read that people put the drain pipe way to far in the standpipe... sort of shoved in, and then there is no air around the pipe which causes problems too. Maytag will be called tomorrow. I wonder if they'll give me a new machine. :)

[speedball1]

All the plumbers (roto rooter) said to NOT fill those holes up, as air is needed around the drain pipe for the water to flow normally. Everything I've read supports this too. I even read that people put the drain pipe way to far in the standpipe... sort of shoved in, and then there is no air around the pipe which causes problems too. Maytag will be called tomorrow. I wonder if they'll give me a new machine. :)

I hate to disagree with Roto-Rooter but that's why we installed a vent off the trap. It works like this. The pump kicks in and begans to discharge. This goes up the hose and down to the trap. Directly off the trap is the washer vent, this vents the washer discharge not the stand pipe. When I had suds coming out of my1 1/2"standpipe I installed a compression fitting that did the same thing I'm suggesting that you do. Closing off the air holes is the same as adding length to the hose. I did this years ago with no back up and no problems and it's still doing its job. You can fight this till the cows come home but you were told how to make a permanent repair. Good luck, Tom

[Flickit]

All the plumbers (roto rooter) said to NOT fill those holes up, as air is needed around the drain pipe for the water to flow normally. Everything I've read supports this too. I even read that people put the drain pipe way to far in the standpipe... sort of shoved in, and then there is no air around the pipe which causes problems too. Maytag will be called tomorrow. I wonder if they'll give me a new machine. :)

Airtight washer discharge hose to standpipe and have no more sewer odor coming from the pipe and as the drain is well vented (air source Roto, the plumber and the articles quoted as being needed) I have had no problems with suds or water splashing on the wall. Washer works well with a closed discharge system as long as it is being vented after the trap as Tom says!

[Momtoafew]

Interestingly enough, had Maytag out today and the tech admitted that they're having NUMEROUS problems with my Maytag model (SAV5910) and that so far the product hasn't been recalled. The pump is the issue and they haven't figured out how to solve it!

[labman]

Have you ever solved the poor rinsing problem? Did you tell the technician about it? If the washer fills properly, and then empties completely, the clothes should not have a soap residue even if suds run all over the floor. Nothing you do with the drain will fix the draining problem.

The easiest way to fix the suds running over is to follow Tom's instructions on the compression coupling exactly.

The pump may be pumping too hard and shooting the water out creating more foam, just like the gas pump does sometimes when they set the pressure too high. Do you have a fairly large flexible hose that necks down into a rigid hook that goes into the stand pipe? If so, replacing the hook section with a larger one might help.

[Momtoafew]

Here I am... today marks the 4th visit by my maytag repairman. I haven't had to pay for any of these visits. So today I asked the repairman... hey, maytag has to be paying you for all these services to my home, and I'm guessing it's upwards of $100 per hour, right... so in fact they've already paid for one brand new washing machine. Why on earth would the OK visits when they know that I have a defective washing machine. I mean isn't is cost effective to exchange the machine out, than to be billed by my local guy for 8 visits?? The repairman installed a clip on the top of my drain hose to make a "j" clip or maybe it was a "p" clip. Anyway, a 2 cents clip was installed with his thinking that this kink will allow for no suds to come out. I told him I'd give it a go for a week and tell him the results. I'm thinking it won't work, so I've already talked to customer service to see about getting a new unit, reimbursed for my roto rooter, and if they don't see eye to eye about it, I'm going to start talking to them about charging them for my drywall and laundry room floor that has significant damage. Maytag's customer service has gone way down hill. I was on hold for like 45 minutes with them, and then of course transferred all around. Why is it so difficult to simply exchange a unit out and satisfy the customer? I told them that I will be needing a new dryer and dish washer in the next year, as mine are old, and if they want to turn me off from ever buying maytag again, I'd be happy to accommodate them, and go with Kenmore. Meanwhile they can keep on sending a repairman out to my home every week, and I will show them all the documentation on how they are losing money with me. :confused:

[labman]

If you had to pay, it might be $100/hr, but the repairman doesn't get that. If this is an unresolved problem as the one guy said, a new machine might be just as bad.

When the clip doesn't work, can you pull or unscrew the hook, and run the water into a bucket and see if the suds over flow?

Does your state have a lemon law that applies to washing machines? You and Maytag might both be better off it they gave you your money back.

[Momtoafew]

I'm getting a full refund. My washer machine has been viewed as being defective, and I will be getting my check in the next week. Interestingly enough they don't make the same model anymore, as initially maytag was going to give me a replacement. Anyway, now my question to many of you here is what would be a good top loader replacement for me? I was thinking of a kenmore or whirlpool. Maybe someone has an old consumer reports magazine which would tell me what the best model (price range $350-$375) would be for a mom to many kids (and much laundry). And what models to absolutely stay away from! ;)

[Momtoafew]

Got my check from maytag and now I am awaiting my new washer... delivery this week! I bought a Kenmore Elite 3.2 King model. Gosh I hope this thing works well! The man at Sears said that Kenmore's don't put out more than 18-20 gallons of water during the rinse cycle ( I was told the maytag's put out upwards of 28+ a minute), so I'm hoping for good results and no foam backup. The new one I have doesn't have a steele drum, but a double coated porcelin one, so I hope it will hold up over time... that was my only complaint about the Kenmore series... but I'm hopeful the washer will last me 10 years.

Did I pick an OK washer? Anyone had problems with Kenmore's? :)

[labman]

Likely a good choice. We have a Whirlpool, I think over 10 years old. It was the design where the you remove 2 screws and the whole cabinet pull off for service. It does have the old mechanical timer. The only problem we have had was a couple of broken wires in the timer. Does the new one have a digital timer?

[Momtoafew]

The new Kenmore Elite King Washer I purchased is doing a great job. No floods in my laundry room, no weird noises, etc. It's doing what it should washing my family's clothing. I now truly believe that I was right, and my machine was defective. I did buy it (my old one) from one of those outlet stores, but it wasn't considered damaged product. When I bought the new one at Sears this month, the sales rep said that those discount places (even Sears discount appliance stores) seem to always be selling the machines with "problems". Learned my lesson and will stick with Sears or Lowe's, etc. No more outlet stores where they say their products are the same as sears, but the prices are better. I think my machine must have been dropped or something! Anyway, I'm happy, and hope my story can help someone else.

[Eric1]

This is a very interesting thread because it seems that I am having the same problem as Momtoafew with virtually the same washing machine. She mentions Maytag SAV3655A and SAV5910. I have model SAV4655A.

We have been doing some construction to reconfigure our laundry room into a bathroom and laundry room. Because our new 18" slop sink is less than the 20 gallons required by the Maytag installaiton manual we switched to a 2" standpipe dedicated to the washing machine.

The plumbing was done by a handyman but was inspected and in fact was corrected in some areas based on recommendations by the inspector. Although it was a bit of an ordeal (and a mistake using a handyman), I inspected the work closely myself, spoke to the inspector in detail, and consulted numerous plumbing books and believe everything has been plumbed corectly. I have attached a picture of the plumbing.

As far as I noticed, this was all working fine before the drywall was installed. Then, we disconnected the washing machine, installed the drywall, and reconnected the washer. Once we did that I noticed that the wall was wet and suds were bubbling over in the plastic box that holds the supply valves and end of the standpipe.

The water is draining fine, just the suds (I think towards the end of the wash) that are causing the problem. I don't think there is a blockage because the water is draining fine and also because the laundry sink drain pipe which is much lower than the top of the standpipe is still open (only sealed with duct tape) and not showing any sign of water or soap suds. If the plumbing were backed up, the water should spill over from this drain before going all the way up the standpipe.

Maytag has a standpipe adapter (part 40008101 - http://services.maytag.com/abs/PartsStore.do), sort of like a large rubber stopper with a hole in it for the drain hose, which was delivered with the machine. I installed that recently and it helped the problem. No longer suds coming down the wall, but still some suds filling up the bottom of the plastic box with the valves and standpipe.

I am hesitant to completely seal the drain hose into the standpipe since the Maytag installation manual says "avoid air-tight seal" to avoid siphoning. I should note that the top of the standpipe is at almost exactly 36" which is the minimum height Maytag recommends to avoid siphoning. I could raise the standpipe but that is a lot of work for something that may not make a difference.

One thing I wonder is if some construction debris (gypsum dust?) could have made the drain pipe more encouraging of sudsing.

I guess the more likely thing given Momtoafew's posts is that the washing machine has a problem with clearing its suds during the rinse cycle and presumably the remaining suds are not dense enough to push through the p-trap.

At this point, I need to decide if I will extend the standpipe, seal the connection, or maybe just push Maytag for reimbursement.

At this point, I feel most of the advice has already been posted, so I am mostly posting this just in case it reveals any other ideas not already mentioned.

Thanks for all ideas so far and for any new ones!

[hvac1000]

Are you using too much soap? Usually by the time the wash cycle is done there is very little soap left to cause suds. Try using less soap and see what it does.

[speedball1]

Hi Eric,

Did you read how Mom of Five solved her problem?
"I'm getting a full refund. My Maytag washer machine has been viewed as being defective, and I will be getting my check in the next week. Interestingly enough they don't make the same model anymore,"
Could you also have a washer that discharges too strong?
Your washer hook up looks to be a little above the flood rim of the washer so I think that any backsiphoning will not be a problem if you seal the hose connection with a compression fitting. Which is what I had to do five years ago when my washer began to bubble out suds from the top of the standpipe.
I have had no problems since then and that would be my advice to you.
I fail to see how installing dry wall affected your drainage unless, as you say, some debris got into the trap and line and you have a partial blockage. Keep us informed as to the outcome. Good luck, Tom

[Eric1]

HVAC and Speedball , I think you have hit on my main three choices:

1) Use less soap
2) Put on some kind of an air tight fitting
3) Get Maytag to replace the machine

I do have relatively soft water, so less soap might help, but I'm not sure why it had not been a problem until recently.

Although I will definitely be considering it, I'm not sure how to install a compression fitting without a lot of work since the drain pipe is currently solvent glued to the hole in the plastic box set into the drywall-covered framing. There is no exposed end of the standpipe to compress onto, just an inside surface exposed via the hole in the plastic box. Plus there is unfortunately only about 3" clearance above the standpipe because my handyman installed the old flower-shaped supply valve right above the standpipe, so it would be difficult to solvent weld some sort of extension inside the standpipe unless it had a curve to it.

I'm thinking of just caulking around the rubber standpipe adapter that Maytag provided for now so see if it causes any problems. I'll let you all know if that works.

Since Maytag warns against siphoning, what would be the symptoms of siphoning that I should watch out for? I'm assuming it would cause a premature drainage of the tub during the wash cycle, right?

Thanks again for your help.

[speedball1]

Eric,

"Since Maytag warns against siphoning, what would be the symptoms of siphoning that I should watch out for? I'm assuming it would cause a premature drainage of the tub during the wash cycle, right?"

Siphonage of what? There is no water in the hose unless the pump is draining the tub. Immediately after the pump shuts off there's a 36 inch air gap in the stand pipe between the hose and the trap seal. Pretty difficult to siphon water past a air gap. I think your worries are needless.
As for the compression fitting sealing off the stand pipe I have caulked in damp rags around the hose that does the job just as well. Regards, Tom