[speedball1]

"My only point is that why would someone want to continue to post on a Christianity Forum if they are athiests. If they don't believe in God, I was just thinking they may believe in the dirty devil."
Good question by "Pop-my Cork". I'll answer it as best I can. I post on a Christian site because your-alls world is so black and white. The bible said it! I believe it, etc" No room foir question or any kind of discussion, unless it agrees with scripture. You all have so many off-the -wall beliefs. One expert on this board informed me, in all seriousness , that the earth was only less the 6000 years old and the dinosaur bones were placed there by the devil to confuse us. Now, who can resist tossing a few "zingers" into a flat statement such as that? People like popover are fun to tweek. In short you "fundies" (and you know who you are) put the FUN in Fundamentalism
I would post over on "The Dirty Devil Board" except fundies are much more fun to play with. Ya want " Absolute Truth" ?? Here goes mine, " religion began when the first priest met the first fool." Now THERE'S absolute truth!!

[poppa0777]

I think you miss the point here. It's not that I wouldn't accept God's word as the final authority (if there were any evidence to there being a god). It's just that I don't see any reason to accept that the bible is God's word.

(I used 'I' here because it is my own view, but I hope I convey the view of NK and ordinaryguy here also)

Then I have to ask why you post on a Christian forum? I'll give you an example... I don't believe in flying saucers, little green men, etc. etc. SOooooo, I don't post on those kind of forums. It would be pointless and a big waste of time... unless of course my agenda was to only quibble with people. If you are looking for people to "prove" our beliefs to you, it won't happen because first, you must have at least a "willing" person with an open mind. I was hopeful when I began posting on a Christian forum that I wouldn't run into this. I was wrong, but you must understand that it doesn't make any difference whether you accept the Word of God as God's will for mankind or not... that will not change the fact that it is. No sir, not a chance.
God does not attempt to prove his existence. We either do or we don't. It's that simple.
I'm going to venture a guess that you would like to see absolute scientific proof of all of this. I don't think you will, as accepting God and His Bible is purely an act of blind faith. Period.
Additionally, please understand that every born again Christian has a duty to spread the gospel news. We are very much aware that a very large percentage of people will not accept it, but that does not relieve us of the command to do so.
You will see by my posts that I seem to be intolerant of other's views at times... I've even disagreed with Tessy. That's because her and I have somewhat different views on some subjects... even as you in the scientific community. The fact that we are unwavering in our faith, as some of you have pointed out, is a compliment, even though I'm sure some of you didn't intend it to be.
Finally, I will go on record saying that I am proud to be a Christian, and that I am strong in what I believe... The entire Word of God. This strong faith is what helps to keep me from wavering. God bless each of you.:cool:
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[Capuchin]

I post here because the people who post here often misrepresent scientific understanding. If they make a mistake, I will correct them. I'm sure none of you wish to be ignorant.

I am also interested in questioning and learning about the beliefs of others. I hope that is not a problem.

[poppa0777]

It's not quoting the bible which is seen as pompous, it's the way the scripture is used to "show" someone they are wrong. If you want to quote the bible to support your opinion, fine. If there is a debate over what the bible says about bears killing children (sorry, I just can't get over that) use all the scripture you want. But to quote the bible or use religious rhetoric to say someone WILL do something is pompous and rude. It's similar if I said "One day you WILL realize you are wrong and you will feel silly you wasted your life praying to a false god!" That too, is a pompous and rude statement. It doesn't matter if I believe it or not, it's rude to attack someone in that manner. I'm sure if I gave any Christian on this board a disagree which said that I'd be run out of here, yet it's ok if it's done the other way around.

Jillianleab,
I understand what you're saying... it's just that for me there is no turning to the left or to the right. I would consider that compromise, and I am not going to compromise. Do I sometimes come on too strong? Probably, but you have no idea what God pulled me out of 32 years ago.:)

[speedball1]

Pop-My-Zit, You asked me why I post on Christian chat rooms and I gave you my answer. You asked,
"My only point is that why would someone want to continue to post on a Christianity Forum if they are athiests. If they don't believe in God, I was just thinking they may believe in the dirty devil."

Good question by "Pop-my Cork". I'll answer it as best I can. I post on a Christian site because your-alls world is so black and white. The bible said it! I believe it, etc" No room foir question or any kind of discussion, unless it agrees with scripture. You all have so many off-the -wall beliefs. One expert on this board informed me, in all seriousness , that the earth was only less the 6000 years old and the dinosaur bones were placed there by the devil to confuse us. Now, who can resist tossing a few "zingers" into a flat statement such as that? People like popover are fun to tweek. In short you "fundies" (and you know who you are) put the FUN in Fundamentalism
I would post over on "The Dirty Devil Board" except fundies are much more fun to play with. Ya want " Absolute Truth" ?? Here goes mine, " religion began when the first priest met the first fool." Now THERE'S absolute truth!!

And your response was,
poppa0777 disagrees: Go take a nerve pill... you're not
What a wimpy response! I'm not what?? Come on sport! You can do better then that if you try. Mama won't letcha come out and play with the big kids? Afraid we'll infest you with the two things that religion rejects? Reason and logic.

[jillianleab]

poppa my intention is not to make anyone compromise their beliefs. Your religion works for you and I respect that. My lack of religion works for me. I ask for the same respect. That is why when you go about posting comments which tell people what they WILL do in the future it is very rude. I do not know what led you to god and you don't know what led me from him. But consider this: maybe you don't give YOURSELF enough credit for pulling yourself out of whatever horrible life you had 32 years ago. I do not wish to turn you into an atheist, I simply wish for you (and other fundies like you) to respect people's differences and acknowledge that not everyone believes as you do. Perhaps you could consider that I haven't "found my way yet" and you can hope and pray that I do, but there's no need to tell me what I WILL do someday. You have no way to know what I will or will not do. In your world, only god knows that for sure, right? But go ahead, pray for me. I will hope that one day you come to understand Jesus and god are not the solution for EVERYONE. I understand it is your "duty" to try and get other people to follow Jesus, but don't you think you could do that to people who are actually looking for a change in their spiritual beliefs? What you do by throwing scripture in a non-believer's face is drive them FURTHER for the acceptance of god, which is contrary to your intention. If someone posted here looking for spiritual guidance you can jump all over them with you bible-speak, but until I post that I am unhappy with my current path, I ask that you refrain for trying to convert me. I can tell you with absolute certainty you have as much of a chance at turning me into a Christian as I have at turning you into an atheist.

You keep asking why non-Christians post on this board, and I gave an answer a few posts back. But in addition to that, I admit, I'm fascinated by human psychology and sociology, and observing and interacting with religions people lets me get a clearer view of such things. I find religion so hard to understand because of what I see as clear contradictions and it makes me wonder how anyone can believe such things (still waiting on the bears killing children thing, btw).

I think if you would step back for just a moment you could probably learn a lot from non-Christians. You don't have to accept our views as your own to understand where we come from and why we believe the things we do. All you have to do is have empathy and a little respect for others.

[ordinaryguy]

Well, i could show you my softer more gentler side, but what fun with that be? ;)

Eeeww, that would just be creepy! I've come to enjoy your prickly argumentative side so much that the whole notion of a softer gentler Tessy puts me in a state of extreme cognitive dissonance. If you were that way habitually, I might have to give your religious views a more serious look.

I don't think it is pompous when the scripture is quoted.

I agree that it's POSSIBLE to quote scripture un-pompously. I've seen it done; even done it myself occasionally.

I wouldn't go to a Muslim Board. I agree, anything from the Koran, I would find fault with. So I don't go there and argue my faith. But if I DID, and they quoted the Koran, I wouldn't find it pompous...i would EXPECT it. Since it is their foundation!!

Yes, dialog with those of a different faith is so icky and tiresome. Better to stick with those who already agree with you.

I can't give you my faith and I can't prove the Bible is true..

A point of agreement! You aren't going all "softer and gentler" on me are you?

BUT I can make a good argument every now and again. :)

I'm looking forward to it.

[Ionse]

Body begins to decompose and you cease to exist. I guess nobody knows for sure.

[NeedKarma]

but you have no idea what God pulled me out of 32 years ago.

Well here's the thing Poppa. A whole lot of us did not have some trauma or crappy childhood or whatever it is that you faced. Perhaps you NEED a book to help you make good decisions; hey if that's what you need to keep on the straight and narrow then good for you. A whole lot of us have had great parents who taught us well and thus we make good decisions. We do NOT need a book to tell us what to do. Please stop treating everyone like they lived your live or they make crappy decisions without your book's help. I'm proud that I had a happy childhood and that I make good decisions on my own.

[Tessy777]

It's not quoting the bible which is seen as pompous, it's the way the scripture is used to "show" someone they are wrong. If you want to quote the bible to support your opinion, fine. If there is a debate over what the bible says about bears killing children (sorry, I just can't get over that) use all the scripture you want. But to quote the bible or use religious rhetoric to say someone WILL do something is pompous and rude. It's similar if I said "One day you WILL realize you are wrong and you will feel silly you wasted your life praying to a false god!" That too, is a pompous and rude statement. It doesn't matter if I believe it or not, it's rude to attack someone in that manner. I'm sure if I gave any Christian on this board a disagree which said that I'd be run out of here, yet it's ok if it's done the other way around.

Jill,

Yes, I understood the FIRST time.. my point is. I said that I didn't use scripture to show someone where they are wrong unless I am talking to a fellow christian who I believe has doctrine issues. I get that not everyone believes the Bible and doing that is a waste of time. However, if you come in to a Christian board and say this or that is in the Bible and it isn't... Well, I may argue with you a bit. The difference between us? I don't care if people say to me... you are silly and wasting your time praying to a false God. That kind of thing doesn't bother me in the least. (I know not everyone is like that.) I believe what I believe... I'm in a Christian forum and I'm not somewhere else trying to push Jesus down someone's throat. What I DO find amusing though, is the atheists that come in here and get all offended.! To them I say... Hey it is really easy, just go to the top of the Ask me help desk and click on home... find another topic THAT DOESN'T STRING YOUR BEAN... loll

And I never have understood the big deal with the red marks anyway... when it is all said and done.. do we get a prize for not getting them.?

[jillianleab]

Tessy how wonderful that you "got it" the first time, but that was the first time I said anything about quoting the bible being pompous. Read carefully and you will notice the comment I was referring to was not one you had made. I'm not arguing about the bible saying this or that, I'm actually not arguing anything. I'm simply saying I think it is pompous to throw scripture at someone who does not share your beliefs. I never said you were guilty of such things. Also, you are making an assumption that I care, or am offended by what is said to me in these threads; I'm not. Call me a heathen, tell me I'm going to hell, it doesn't matter to me. I'm as secure in my beliefs as you are in yours. Telling me I WILL accept the word of god or whatever, or that I WILL go to hell has no effect on me, except to think, "Gee, what a pompous a** who can't accept that others believe differently!" I can think someone is pompous without being offended, in case you didn't know. If you would like to point out where you think I was "offended" by something someone said, I'll be happy to explain to you why you are wrong. You seem to be under the impression people are offended very easily, and I believe you are mistaken in most cases.

The "disagrees" given on this board are meaningless, but their intention is to let new users judge how valuable they think the advice given is. That is why it is incorrect and rude to give a "disagree" to someone who has expressed an opinion.

[poppa0777]

Pop-My-Zit, You asked me why I post on Christian chat rooms and I gave you my answer. You asked,
"My only point is that why would someone want to continue to post on a Christianity Forum if they are athiests. If they don't believe in God, I was just thinking they may believe in the dirty devil."

Good question by "Pop-my Cork". I'll answer it as best I can. I post on a Christian site because your-alls world is so black and white. The bible said it! I believe it, ect" No room foir question or any kind of discussion, unless it agrees with scripture. You all have so many off-the -wall beliefs. One expert on this board informed me, in all seriousness , that the earth was only less the 6000 years old and the dinosaur bones were placed there by the devil to confuse us. Now, who can resist tossing a few "zingers" into a flat statement such as that? People like popover are fun to tweek. In short you "fundies" (and you know who you are) put the FUN in Fundamentalism
I would post over on "The Dirty Devil Board" except fundies are much more fun to play with. Ya want " Absolute Truth" ?? Here goes mine, " religion began when the first priest met the first fool." Now THERE'S absolute truth!!!

And your response was,
poppa0777 disagrees: Go take a nerve pill...you're not
What a wimpy response! I'm not what??? Come on sport! You can do better then that if you try. Mama won't letcha come out and play with the big kids?? Afraid we'll infest you with the two things that religion rejects? Reason and logic.

Dear Mr. Speedball,
Being a human being, I made a mistake and hit the wrong key while typing my response to you. I am not going to argue with you, I'm not going to "come out and play", because I'm not playing. I would have thought that someone of your age would have more on his mind than "play". If you are 80 years old you should be making serious plans for what comes next for you. This is really sad.The eternal soul of a man is far more precious than to "play' with. I truly hope you resolve that issue before your death. God bless you. :confused:

[Tessy777]

Jill,
Okie dokie. I guess we will agree to disagree. I don't see anything pompus about posting scripture on a Christain board. It is what I would expect to find if I were an atheist. I do think there are times when it is appropriate and times when it isn't. I totally get that you can think something is pompus and not get offended. I think it all the time and I never said YOU got offended and said SOME atheists do.

[jillianleab]

Tessy you seem to not understand something: the problem is not quoting scripture. Posting scripture does not make one pompous. What makes one who quotes scripture pompous is when the individual does so with the intent to "convert" or "prove" something that the recipient will not respond to. Quote all the scripture you want, but if you do it inappropriately, don't be surprised when you are considered pompous. But you say you don't care what people say to you, so why do you care if people call you pompous, intolerant, etc? Perhaps you are trying to convince yourself, rather than others?

I never said YOU got offended and said SOME atheists do.

Actually, what you said was :

The difference between us? I don't care if people say to me... you are silly and wasting your time praying to a false God. That kind of thing doesn't bother me in the least.

Which indicates YOU do not get offended but I do ("The difference between us" is a dead giveaway).

[Tessy777]

Jill,
I don't care if people call me pompous, Actually, I have NEVER been called pompous. I was called intolerant. I was just curious as to why I was called that. I never did get a straight answer from the person who gave me the dreaded "red" mark when he called me that.. lol. I don't think he knows.

Here is a question for you Jill, and I actually have thought about this a lot lately. If you are an atheist, why do you care that God allowed bears to kill teenagers? You say you don't think the Word of God is true and you don't get offended by it because it isn't true. And yet... it appears to string your bean? Why?

[jillianleab]

Great question, Tessy, and one I'm more than happy to answer.

My "bean is strung" because passages like that one indicate god is NOT forgiving or loving (at least not all the time). That particular passage, if I'm correct, has god sending bears to kill a group of teens (the versions I read don't specify teen, but maybe I haven't looked closely enough) because they made fun of someone. To me, it doesn't matter WHO they made fun of; they were ripped apart by bears for childish behavior instead of being taught that that behavior is inappropriate and hurtful. I'm sure in your youth (and perhaps adulthood) you have made fun of someone. How horrible would it be if a bear ripped your brain out of your nose because of youthful indiscretion, at god's hand? When this passage was pointed out to my husband's coworker, he said, "They were wicked, they deserved it." I was appalled! How can someone who preaches love, acceptance, tolerance and so on say that a child deserved to be MAULED BY A BEAR?

There are many passages in the bible which have god doing horrible things, yet people of faith profess how wonderful he is. I find it contradictory to say he is so great when he commits such atrocities. I use the "bear passage" as an example, and it's also a little funny, when you think about it (at least in the cartoon way I picture it in my head). I'm sure you have a reason excusing the actions I have a problem with, but that's what I find so fascinating about people with faith - they will "turn the other cheek" for god when if anyone else did such a thing, that individual would be condemed and on their way to hell.

So all in all, there are a lot of things in the bible I don't understand, and I have a hard time seeing how a reasonable person can follow someone/something which has done so many terrible things. I guess I don't think "the good outweighs the bad" or "the ends justify the means" in this case.

I have a whole list of passages which confuse me and make me say, "How can anyone put their faith into this?"

[Tessy777]

Great question, Tessy, and one I'm more than happy to answer.

My "bean is strung" because passages like that one indicate god is NOT forgiving or loving (at least not all the time). That particular passage, if I'm correct, has god sending bears to kill a group of teens (the versions I read don't specify teen, but maybe I haven't looked closely enough) because they made fun of someone. To me, it doesn't matter WHO they made fun of; they were ripped apart by bears for childish behavior instead of being taught that that behavior is inappropriate and hurtful. I'm sure in your youth (and perhaps adulthood) you have made fun of someone. How horrible would it be if a bear ripped your brain out of your nose because of youthful indiscretion, at god's hand? When this passage was pointed out to my husband's coworker, he said, "They were wicked, they deserved it." I was appalled! How can someone who preaches love, acceptance, tolerance and so on say that a child deserved to be MAULED BY A BEAR?

There are many passages in the bible which have god doing horrible things, yet people of faith profess how wonderful he is. I find it contradictory to say he is so great when he commits such atrocities. I use the "bear passage" as an example, and it's also a little funny, when you think about it (at least in the cartoon way I picture it in my head). I'm sure you have a reason excusing the actions I have a problem with, but that's what I find so fascinating about people with faith - they will "turn the other cheek" for god when if anyone else did such a thing, that individual would be condemed and on their way to hell.

So all in all, there are a lot of things in the bible I don't understand, and I have a hard time seeing how a reasonable person can follow someone/something which has done so many terrible things. I guess I don't think "the good outweighs the bad" or "the ends justify the means" in this case.

I have a whole list of passages which confuse me and make me say, "How can anyone put their faith into this?"

Jill,

God is sovereign and He does what He wants. That is all I can say. I don't understand everything about HIM... no one does. I certainly wouldn't say someone deserved to killed by bears. Having said that, I believe just because I can't figure HIM out doesn't mean that HE isn't perfect. I believe HE is.. HE is all knowing and HE sees the beginning from the end. All we see are that teenage boys were killed by a bear for being "teenage" boys. Doesn't seem fair but He is sovereign and he didn't have to ask me first. I'm sure to an atheist that sounds unreasonable. That's OK.

[jillianleab]

Like I said, I was sure you would have a reason for excusing the action. It's another example of that "blind faith" which is so foreign to me. At least you admit that to an atheist, your line of reasoning sounds unreasonable. That's more than many Christians (especially those on this site!) would give.

[Tessy777]

Eeeww, that would just be creepy!! I've come to enjoy your prickly argumentative side so much that the whole notion of a softer gentler Tessy puts me in a state of extreme cognitive dissonance. If you were that way habitually, I might have to give your religious views a more serious look.

I agree that it's POSSIBLE to quote scripture un-pompously. I've seen it done; even done it myself occasionally.

Yes, dialog with those of a different faith is so icky and tiresome. Better to stick with those who already agree with you.

A point of agreement! You aren't going all "softer and gentler" on me are you?.

I'm looking forward to it.

Ordinaryguy,

LOL!! I enjoyed your comments. Bring it on dude... bring it on!!

Oh and just for the record... there ain't nothing creepy about me. ;)

[Tessy777]

Like I said, I was sure you would have a reason for excusing the action. It's another example of that "blind faith" which is so foreign to me. At least you admit that to an atheist, your line of reasoning sounds unreasonable. That's more than many Christians (especially those on this site!) would give.

Jill,

I have to admit... I don't understand the beliefs of an atheist. Do you believe there is a God and you just really don't like Him? Or... do you believe that He doesn't exist?