[speedball1]

Thank you for sharing .

[poppa0777]

No kidding? Ok, pardon my sarcasm but that's the standard source for most of this contradiction stuff.



Nah, been there, done that and it ends up getting rather pointless and nobody ever persuades anyone of much of anything. And besides, there are a lot of gung-ho Christians out there that just aren't very prepared to get into the meaty stuff so cut 'em some slack when they say something that seems off the wall. Of course there are 'difficulties' in the bible but most can be explained satisfactorily and the rest really don't matter a heckuva lot. But if you want to take one here and there and throw it out on the board for discussion then by all means do so. It'll be fun I'm sure. :D

AMEN, Speechless

[speedball1]

poppa0777 disagrees: YOUR OPINION DOES NOT AGREE WITH THE BIBLE!
(Of course my opinion doesn't agree with the Bible, you silly goose, I'm a atheist! )

[always_hot]

No one knows what happens after you die. Not a single person alive on this earth can tell that with any certainty. So in the end it does not matter whether you are a child of any god.

LAURENJD, The bible tells us what happens but if you think about it the bible was written by man.

[laurenjd]

LAURENJD, The bible tells us what happens but if you think about it the bible was written by man.

If you read and believe the Bible, 2 Timothy 3:16 says all scripture is God-breathed.

[cal823]

The reason why there are "difficulties" and perceived contradictions in the bible, is because it is the single deepest, most important book ever written. Of course its going to be hard to take in and to understand, of course people will try and attack it. The truth scares people, and people try to attack the truth, because the truth illuminates their lies and secrets.

[debater_classone]

See, now I'm upset. "How can people not believe in god?" is the commonly asked question.

Regardless of the said proof of the Bible being true, I view it as a simple myth. Apparently, when Cain killed Abel, he begged God to not let the people of the earth look down on him and kill him... who would kill him? The only people on Earth at this time were Adam, Eve and himself. And if his mother and father were "true christians" then they wouldn't even think about killing him, no? Will somebody please explain this to me?

[chaplain john]

Speechless & Speed
Here I was beginning to think you guys were going to fire up "The Great Debate" and then you go and get all warm and fuzzy on me... LOL

I lost my Jenny over ten years ago but I still miss the "Bark Fests" we used to have (they were an excellent means of irritating my wife that made the "making up" great). When we lose some living creature from our life it seems to leave a big hole that never seems to completely fill up.

I don't claim to have the expertise or education (I'm just a simple Pastor and Chaplain) for participating "full bore" in the kind of debate challenge that was made above but would love to read and kibbutz if I happen to see the question when it is thrown out (It would be truly appreciated if one of you would PM me if or when that happens... I'm not able to be on here as much as I would like and also have not completely mastered navigating the forum yet).

Speed, I'm a "fundie" but maybe a slightly different kind of fundie than the ones with whom you have experience.

I pray blessings upon you both,
John

[poppa0777]

NK,
Have you been born again? I hope so. That is the truth.
Regards,
Poppa

NK,

Here is what Jesus said.....
(Joh 14:1) Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.
(Joh 14:2) In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
(Joh 14:3) And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.
(Joh 14:4) And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know.
(Joh 14:5) Thomas saith unto him, Lord, we know not whither thou goest; and how can we know the way?
(Joh 14:6) Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
Jason...what you are saying is that "someone" taught you the truth. What truth?? There is only ONE TRUTH, and his name is Jesus Christ of Nazareth. The Holy Bible is the final authority.
It is difficult for me to understand how you people can ignore and deny the Scriptures. All Truth rests on one final authority.....the Scriptures.
I completely understand and accept the fact that you will not answer to me; or to any other man, but, every one of us WILL give an account for themselves at the Judgement.
Please do not think that I'm trying to shove anything down your throat, because that's not my intent. My only concern for all mankind is to warn them of the soon coming end times and the need for every human to be ready. I would not do this if I didn't care what happened to people.
You have no idea of the condition I was in 31 years ago before my conversion to Jesus Christ.
Please tell me what "your truth" is. If it so great, it seems like you would want to share it with the entire world. Right?
I have always been completely open with the teachings of the Scriptures. Why not you? After all, you're posting on a Christianity forum. Right?
Best regards,
Poppa

[NeedKarma]

Poppa,
Nowhere in what Jesus said does he mention having to be "born again" (which has become a much maligned expression). One could be Protestant, Catholic and still fit into Jesus' words.

[poppa0777]

poppa0777 disagrees: YOUR OPINION DOES NOT AGREE WITH THE BIBLE!
(Of course my opinion doesn't agree with the Bible, you silly goose, I'm a athiest!!)

You being an atheist doesn't change the Word of God one bit, nor will it cool off Hell by 1/10th of a degree.
Remember this one thing...
(Rom 14:7) For none of us liveth to himself, and no man dieth to himself.
(Rom 14:8) For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; and whether we die, we die unto the Lord: whether we live therefore, or die, we are the Lord's.
(Rom 14:9) For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living.
(Rom 14:10) But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.
(Rom 14:11) For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.
(Rom 14:12) So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.

Additionally, I'm just kind of curious.....since you're a self professed athiest...why aren't you posting on the devil's forums instead of a Christianity forum? Wouldn't that make more sense? Unless of course you just........well, whatever, right??

[poppa0777]

See, now I'm upset. "How can people not believe in god?" is the commonly asked question.

Regardless of the said proof of the Bible being true, I view it as a simple myth. Apparently, when Cain killed Abel, he begged God to not let the people of the earth look down on him and kill him.....who would kill him? The only people on Earth at this time were Adam, Eve and himself. And if his mother and father were "true christians" then they wouldn't even think about killing him, no? Will somebody please explain this to me?

Read the entire book of Genesis, and then ask the question again. You may find many answers there if you read with an open mind.

[poppa0777]

I do not understand why people do not believe the Bible to be Gods word! The Bible has NEVER been proven wrong! For HUNDREDS of year scholors, scientists, etc. have dedicated their lives to finding faults with the Bible. Yet NO ONE has been able to find faults or places where the Bible contradicts itself!!! How could a human being write something with such incredible accuracy??? The point is...NO human being could! However the Koran( Muslim bible) and other religions "bibles" have been found with errors, contradictions, and historical and scientific inaccuracies. This just backs up the fact that the ONLY truth lies in the Holy Bible, Gods word.
This being said you can find the ONLY answer to what happens to you when you die in the Bible!
Romans 3:23-"For all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God" and because of that sin we deserve to go to hell!(Rom. 6:23) BUT God provided a way of escape by dying on the cross for our sins (Rom. 5:8) BUT that is not enough. To get to heaven, we must accept his way of escape which is accepting and believing in him! Romans 10:9- "That if thou shalt confess whith thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved."
....so its not by just being a good person you get to heaven, its by confessing and accepting God to get to heaven.

Speedball,
Please give me one contradiction in the Bible. Please be specific... including the Chapter and verse.
Thanks

[NeedKarma]

Additionally, I'm just kind of curious.....since you're a self professed athiest...why aren't you posting on the devil's forums instead of a Christianity forum? Wouldn't that make more sense?

Spoken out of pure ignorance. :rolleyes:

[NeedKarma]

Speedball,
Please give me one contradiction in the Bible. Please be specific...including the Chapter and verse.
Thanks

A List Of Biblical Contradictions

Losing Faith In Faith

Biblical Contradictions

Please answer all of them. Thank you.

[ordinaryguy]

The Holy Bible is the final authority.
It is difficult for me to understand how you people can ignore and deny the Scriptures. All Truth rests on one final authority.....the Scriptures.

Well, it is difficult for me to understand how "you people" who insist that the Bible is the only and final Truth can come up with so many conflicting interpretations of it, and spend so much time and energy arguing with each other about it. It is indeed a spectacle, but not one that inspires much confidence in either your choice of holy book, or your interpretation of it.

Speaking only for myself, I don't "ignore and deny the Scriptures", I just deny that there is only one Scripture and only one Truth. I have found many truths in the many scriptures of many religions that I have read so far, and I have lots more to go I'm sure.

[Tessy777]

Spoken out of pure ignorance. :rolleyes:

Dude... Ignorance? Not very "tolerant" of You.. by the way... when you say ignorance do you mean kind of like YOU saying Jesus never used the term "born again". Bummer dude. Ignorant and intolerant all in the same day... lol (gotcha) ;)

[NeedKarma]

It is ignorant because the answer was given have no knowledge of the subject. To say that atheists worship the devil is truly ignorant:
Atheism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

About the 'born again" part: that verse means that those who have never bean christians or have renounced can be included back into the fold. Those who have been christians since baptism are not born again, they need not be. Your sect has taken the term and converted the meaning for your purposes. It helps you feel superior and god knows you seem to need that.

[poppa0777]

"Originally Posted by Kick277Kate
I do not understand why people do not believe the Bible to be Gods word! The Bible has NEVER been proven wrong! For HUNDREDS of year scholors, scientists, etc. have dedicated their lives to finding faults with the Bible. Yet NO ONE has been able to find faults or places where the Bible contradicts itself!!!"

SAY WHAT??? Gimmi some of that stuff you're smoikin!! The Bible's loaded with contradictions.
If you to challenge me on this I'll be more then happy to debate you on it.
Although it won't be much of a debate since all I gotta do is Google "Biblical Contradictions" and copy the Biblical passages that contradict each other and all you gotta do is disprove them. Should be interesting since I'm at my best when debating logic and reason against faith and belief

I understand you fundamentalists take every word in the Bible as actual truth
but men don't live to be hundreds of years old and the earth really is older then 5000 years. There's just one rule if you're gonna debate me on religion.
Don't proselytize me and don't use this debate as a platform to give personal testimony. Also I expect any claim you make to be backed up with fact and proof.


Still wanna claim the Bible doesn't contradict itself? I'm gonna give ya a "A+" for devotion and a "F" for common sense!!

Contradictions
God good to all, or just a few?
War or Peace?
Who is the father of Joseph?
Who was at the Empty Tomb?
Is Jesus equal to or lesser than?
Which first--beasts or man?
The number of beasts in the ark
How many stalls and horsemen?
Is it folly to be wise or not?
Human vs. ghostly impregnation
The sins of the father
The bat is not a bird
Rabbits do not chew their could
Insects do NOT have four feet
Snails do not melt
Fowl from waters or ground
Odd genetic engineering
The shape of the earth
Snakes, while built low, do not eat dirt
Earth supported?
Heaven supported too
The hydrological cycle
Order of creation
Moses' personality
Righteous live?
Jesus' first sermon plain or mount?
Jesus' last words
Years of famine
Moved David to anger?
The GENEALOGY OF JESUS?
God be seen?
CRUEL, UNMERCIFUL, DESTRUCTIVE, and FEROCIOUS or KIND, MERCIFUL, and GOOD
Tempts?
Judas died how?
Ascend to heaven
What was Jesus' prediction regarding Peter's denial?
How many time did the cock crow?
Who killed Saul
How many beatitudes in the Sermon on the Mount
Does every man sin?
Who bought potter's field?
Who prophesied the potter's field?
Who bears guilt?
Do you answer a fool?
How many children did Michal, the daughter of Saul, have?
How old was Jehoiachin when he began to reign?
Marriage?
Did those with Saul/Paul at his conversion hear a voice?
Where was Jesus three days after his baptism?
How many apostles were in office between the resurection and ascention?
Judging
Good deeds
For or against?
Whom did they see at the tomb?
God change?
Destruction of cities (what said was jeremiah was zechariah)
Who's sepulchers?
Strong drink?
When second coming?
Solomon's overseers
The mother of Abijah
When did Baasha die?
How old was Ahaziah when he began to reign?
Who was Josiah's successor?
The differences in the census figures of Ezra and Nehemiah
What was the color of the robe placed on Jesus during his trial?
What did they give him to drink?
How long was Jesus in the tomb?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Contradictions
The Bible is riddled with repetitions and contradictions, things that the Bible bangers would be quick to point out in anything that they want to criticize. For instance, Genesis 1 and 2 disagree about the order in which things are created, and how satisfied God is about the results of his labors. The flood story is really two interwoven stories that contradict each other on how many of each kind of animal are to be brought into the Ark--is it one pair each or seven pairs each of the "clean" ones? The Gospel of John disagrees with the other three Gospels on the activities of Jesus Christ (how long had he stayed in Jerusalem--a couple of days or a whole year?) and all four Gospels contradict each other on the details of Jesus Christ's last moments and resurrection. The Gospels of Matthew and Luke contradict each other on the genealogy of Jesus Christ' father; though both agree that Joseph was not his real father. Repetitions and contradictions are understandable for a hodgepodge collection of documents, but not for some carefully constructed treatise, reflecting a well-thought-out plan.

Of the various methods I've seen to "explain" these:
1. "That is to be taken metaphorically" In other words, what is written is not what is meant. I find this entertaining, especially for those who decide what ISN'T to be taken as other than the absolute WORD OF GOD--which just happens to agree with the particular thing they happen to want...

2. "There was more there than...." This is used when one verse says "there was a" and another says "there was b," so they decide there was "a" AND "b"--which is said nowhere. This makes them happy, since it doesn't say there WASN'T "a+b." But it doesn't say there was "a+b+litle green martians." This is often the same crowd that insists theirs is the ONLY possible interpretation (i.e. only "a") and the only way. I find it entertaining they they don't mind adding to verses.

3. "It has to be understood in context" I find this amusing because it comes from the same crowd that likes to push likewise extracted verses that support their particular view. Often it is just one of the verses in the contradictory set is suppose to be taken as THE TRUTH when if you add more to it it suddenly becomes "out of context." How many of you have goten JUST John 3:16 (taken out of all context) thrown up at you?

4. "there was just a copying/writing error" This is sometimes called a "transcription error," as in where one number was meant and an incorrect one was copied down. Or that what was "quoted" wasn't really what was said, but just what the author thought was said when he thought it was said. And that's right--I'm not disagreeing with events, I'm disagreeing with what is WRITTEN. Which is apparently agreed that it is incorrect. This is an amusing misdirection to the problem that the bible itself is wrong.

5. "That is a miracle." Naturally. That is why it is stated as fact.

6. "God works in mysterious ways" A useful dodge when the speaker doesn't understand the conflict between what the bible SAYS and what they WISH it said.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

REFERENCES:
The King James version of the Bible. quotes provided.

Self-contradictions of the Bible.
William Henry Burr
ISBN 0-87975-416-8




Poole, Matthew, 1624-1679.
Annotations upon the Holy Bible. Vol. II : wherein the sacred text is inserted, and various readings annex'd, together with the parallel scriptures : the more difficult terms in each verse are explained,... The third edition, with the addition of a new concordance and tables, by Mr. Sam. Clark; the whole corrected and amended by the said Mr. Sam. Clark and Mr. Edward Veale .. London : Printed for Thomas Parkhurst [and 6 others], MDCXCVI [1696].
Series title: Early English books, 1641-1700 ; 1041:1.
UCSD Central MICRO F 524 Current Periodical Microform




"the x-rated bible" by ben edward akerley, published by american atheist press, austin texas, 1985.



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A good source of _literal_ Biblical self-contradictions is (surprise) "Self-Contradictions of the Bible," written by William Henry Burr in 1859 as a response to fundamentalism. It is currently published by Prometheus Books, 700 East Amherst St., Buffalo, NY 14215. P.B. also publishes a large number of books on religious inquiry and biblical critiques, the majority of which have a humanistic/atheistic slant. As far as "Self-Contradictions ..." goes, it contains about 140 textual inconsistencies, classified under "Theological Doctrines," "Moral Precepts," "Historical Facts," and "Speculative Doctrines."

"The Bible Handbook" is a compilation of several previous works by several authors, including W P Ball, G W Foote, and John Bowden. Also, the writing by Mr Foote is dated 1900, so we see that this is not a new endeavor. _The Bible Handbook_ by W.P. Ball, et al., available for nine dollars from the the American Atheist Press, P.O. Box 2117, Austin TX 78768-2117. It's a collection of biblical contradictions, absurdities, atrocities, immoralities, indecencies, obscenities, unfulfilled prophecies and broken promises. This 372-page volume will give the atheist tons of scriptural ammunition for shooting down the flimsy arguments of the reality impaired.

So that explains it all for you? Just because you "Googled" to find something to agree with you? The only thing this proves is that you would rather believe a lie than the truth. Simple Googling can arm the even the most irresponsible, uneducated, unlearned and unregenerated person for a "shooting blanks only" firefight. If you don't agree with the Scriptures, possibly you should post on the devil's forums. And... you will find more of the same when you "Google" again. How scary that you would want to trust your eternal soul to Google.

[NeedKarma]

:confused::confused::confused::confused::confused: But the people used chapter and verse like you asked. So now you can't be bothered?