[mogrann]

Wondergirl did you read the article I linked? It brought me to tears again. I too sometimes blame the parents but to be honest we don't know what they did or did not do. It is another mom saying what she has been doing and trying. She needs help from her village to raise her son. She is saying her son could be Adam.

[Wondergirl]

Wondergirl did you read the article I linked?

Yes, I read that article. And there IS help out there for that mother and others. As a counselor, mother, and former schoolteacher, I know there is no real reason not to seek help and be able to get it.

That takes us to the musical question, why doesn't a parent reach out for help?

[Alty]

what petition ? If it is in support for stricter gun laws then probaby not. This week an assault happened at an elementary school. The attacker slashed 22 children in Henan province China .More evidence that it's not the weapon but the person using the weapon that needs to be addressed.

There is a huge difference Tomder. In Connecticut the insane individual had a gun and killed 26 people. In China the insane individual had a knife and injured 22 people. See the difference?

I have already stated that I'm not against people owing guns. I'm against people having weapons that can hold a clip with 100 or more bullets. It's not necessary.

To answer J's post. I do know that it's the individual, and not the guns, that's responsible for this. But, had the individual not had access to the caliber of weapons he had access to, the death toll would have been far less. Yes, people still would have died, but most likely not 26 people. The death toll would have been far less, IMO.

I'm simply proposing that regular people that only have weapons to protect their homes and families, not have access to weapons that should only be necessary in battle.

[J_9]

Alty, the average person cannot have a magazine that holds 100 or more rounds. Those are reserved for military an police. That is where you are mistaken.

[tomder55]

The 2nd amendment is not just about personal protection and hunting rights .

"The strongest reason for people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government." (Thomas Jefferson)

[Wondergirl]

"The strongest reason for people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government." (Thomas Jefferson)

Let's just imagine there's government tyranny (hmmm, whose definition?) People don't even know their neighbors any longer. How on earth would any kind of a useful militia be formed?

[mogrann]

Maybe part of the solution is to look to the past what worked before to have a sense of community? Yes bad things happened then but we have thrown out the bad and the good from the past.
1. Discipline notice I did not say abuse. Teaching right from wrong. Consequences.. Every child is different what works for one may not work for another.
2. Knowing your neighbors. Becoming friendly. Helping out when they need help. Being there when they need emotional support. Becoming like it is here. We all care about each other, we don't always agree (look at this thread) but we don't suddenly hate each other or stop talking.
3. Respect others beliefs or non beliefs. Respect others traditions and holidays. You don't have to agree with them but you can respect their right to believe it without belittling or trying to change them.
These are all things we don't need laws to start doing. We don't need to wait on others to start doing these either. I plan on making lots of changes in my life and if I am the only one that is okay. I will live my life knowing I tried. I am sure there are many more please share if you have any I will love to hear them.
Funny I was looking for someone to tell me what to do and as I shut up and listened to you guys and my inner voice I came up with this.

[tomder55]

Let's just imagine there's government tyranny (hmmm, whose definition?) People don't even know their neighbors any longer. How on earth would any kind of a useful militia be formed?

Back in 1776 they said ,'how can a rag-tag group of farmers defeat the most powerful army on the planet' ?

[Wondergirl]

back in 1776 they said ,'how can a rag-tag group of farmers defeat the most powerful army on the planet' ?

Now we're a rag-tag country of 314,952,339 and counting -- every religion, culture, language, political belief from A to Z. Build me a militia.

[excon]

Hello WG:

Build me a militia.

It doesn't take a militia. A few rag tag fellows whooped on us pretty badly with just IED's. A few Jews in the ghetto gave a well armed German army fits. If every American who HAD a sidearm resisted, nobody could prevail over us - not even our own government.

Excon

[Wondergirl]

Dear excon:

I'll be waiting and watching. Oh, and what will bring us with sidearms to that point?

Fondly,
WG

[paraclete]

back in 1776 they said ,'how can a rag-tag group of farmers defeat the most powerful army on the planet' ?

Time to get real Tom and stop living in the past, how many times have I told you that. That was then, this is now. Trying that sort of thing today will definitely get you killed

There is apparently a petition on the White House web site, I couldn't copy the link from my source it led to a news wire.

The 2nd amendment is very definitely about national emergencies, but remember in those days guns only had one shot and you couldn't fire more than two or three times a minute so you needed cannon fodder in the terms of lots of people firing together. If there is a crisis to which a militia could respond what sort of body count do you expect. Today's weapons and tactics are not appropriate to a militia of the type envisaged by the writers of the constitution

Just remember what happened to your most powerful army on the planet in Vietnam and they weren't defeated by a militia

[Wondergirl]

There is apparently a petition on the White House web site, I couldn't copy the link from my source it led to a news wire.

The one about mental illness as the real thing that needs to be addressed?

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/pet...paign=shorturl

[paraclete]

The one about mental illness as the real thing that needs to be addressed?

Yes there is more than one issue here, but gun ownership and access needs to be must more stringent, perhsps what you need is training and education about weapons in high school, it might take some of the glamour out of gun ownership and pick up people with wrong attitudes

[tomder55]

Clete ;like Ex said...


Back in 1776 the people had basically the same weaponry as the government . Now with all the sophistication of weapons ,the strongest army gets defeated by strategically planted IED and men on horseback .The Syrian Army presumably is better armed than the so called Free Syrian Army.. Who's winning there ?

[odinn7]

On rifles, no background check is needed. On handguns, it depends on your state.

I suppose that is state dependent as well. My state requires background checks on all firearms aside from blackpowder.

I made the mistake of posting that in response to the gun show/private sale thing without being detailed enough about it I suppose. Here, in PA, you need the check for anything other than BP as well if you are buying from a dealer. In a private sale, there is a required background check on handguns but not on rifles. That is what I was referring to.

[paraclete]

Clete ;like Ex said....


back in 1776 the people had basically the same weaponry as the government . Now with all the sophistication of weapons ,the strongest army gets defeated by strategically planted IED and men on horseback .The Syrian Army presumably is better armed than the so called Free Syrian Army .. Who's winning there ?

So you advocate insurrection to solve politicaL problems, Syria is a good example of why military weapons shouldn't be allowed in the general population, indiscriminate killing, religious warfare, revenge taking and what, 2 years of hell. You are going to get kicked out of Afghanistan for the same reasons

Tom this shooter fired"" hundeds" of rounds from what they have now found to be three semi automatic weapons. There can be no reason why one person is permitted to own so many of those weapons. This person made a military style assault on the school, a one man militia, How ridiculous is that, that he should be able to do that.

[Wondergirl]

Tom this shooter fired "hundeds" of rounds from what they have now found to be three semi automatic weapons.

The M.E. reported that only the Bushmaster was used to kill, and he used one of the hand guns on himself.

[Alty]

I made the mistake of posting that in response to the gun show/private sale thing without being detailed enough about it I suppose. Here, in PA, you need the check for anything other than BP as well if you are buying from a dealer. In a private sale, there is a required background check on handguns but not on rifles. That is what I was referring to.

Here it's a lot tougher. Just to own or buy a gun (not fire it) you need to fill out forms that would make applying for citizenship look like a kindergarten math quiz. It's intense.

The guns we have, we didn't buy. They all belonged to my father and Rod's. When they bought them the laws were less strict. Now, in order to keep weapons we don't even use (Rod has used them for target practice around 3 times in 11 years) Rod has to go through not only registration, a criminal and mental background check, a class, but more.

It took 6 months just to get a license to keep the weapons we already had before this law was passed. Weapons we didn't even buy. Weapons that to us, are sentimental. That license is just to own these weapons, not to buy new ones, or to fire the ones we own.

The fact that Rod has a license, but is married to a person that doesn't, also cause major issues.

Our weapons are required to be locked in a gun case at all times. The bullets must be locked in a separate case.

It's very involved, much more than I can even attempt to express in writing.

[Alty]

In other words. If Rod were to go postal, decide to go on a killing spree, had a mental break, he'd have to find the key to the gun case, the key to the bullet case, load the weapon (the one that holds the most bullets holds only 5) before he could carry out his plan.

I love my husband, but thankfully that's too much work for him, even if he were to go insane. :)