[excon]

Hello:

The killer we've been talking about was subdued AFTER he emptied his magazine and before he could insert another. He was using 30 round clips. THOSE clips were illegal under the Assault Weapons Ban that EXPIRED under Bush and was not reinstated.

If it HAD been reinstated, the killer we've been talking about would only have been able to get 10 shots off before he would have been subdued. 20 shots would NOT have been fired. People would be alive who aren't alive now... Maybe the 9 year old girl would be one of them..

excon

[tomder55]

The gun used was also banned under the assault weapons ban.
The NRA influences lawmakers from both parties.
Are you now an advocate of gun control or is this an opportunistic bash of Bush... Do You now FAVOR assault weapons bans?

By the way... States are free to ban them if they choose. NY does. In Arizona you don't need a permit to conceal.

Oh yeah... and a bill to reinstate and expand the assault weapon ban has been stuck in Committee since June 2008 . It was introduced by Republican Mark Kirk and never made it to the floor of the DEMOCRAT led Congress .(H.R. 6257)

[ebaines]

Pure conjecture on your part of course. Who's to say whether under such a restrction he might have brought two guns instead of one? Or even if he only had one with 10 rounds perhaps the stunned bystanders wouldn't have reacted quickly enough to subdue hime while he was changing the magazine after only 10 shots? We'll never know. Having said that - I do agree with you. I see no rational use of a 30 round magazine for either self defense or sporting purposes.

[adthern]

I am happy to say I do not support gun control. That said, I do support reasonable regulation. Banned or not, a trip to mexico would get him whatever he wanted and being in AZ that's not a long trip.

I heard a discussion yesterday that if this had been a republican congressperson and gathering, perhaps more people would have been armed and the shooter might have only gotten off a few rounds.

Also, selling weapons to a mentally ill person is prohibited (maybe he wasn't ill before the shooting?).

I just disagree with the whole concept of someone who is going to commit a crime will chose to obey the gun control laws while breaking other laws.

[excon]

Are you now an advocate of gun control or is this an opportunistic bash on Bush?

Hello tom:

I knew your knee would jerk. Read the OP again.. I don't say one way or the other whether I support gun control.. I just asked the question that needed asking.

You know what I think. An armed society is a POLITE society.

excon

[excon]

I do agree with you. I see no rational use of a 30 round magazine for either self defense or sporting purposes.

Hello again, ebaines:

And, I AGREE with you... The key word, however, is "rational". If only that damned Constitution made the same distinction.

excon

[tomder55]

Good... because I was going to talk about the person in 2005 who was hell bent on mass murder in California . He deliberately parked his gasoline-drenched SUV on railroad tracks. 11 were killed and 180 injured. He didn't use a gun. The national press under reported it.

[joypulv]

Thoughts on mental illness:
Just as gun owners run the gamut, so does mental illness. Both have small groups way out on the edge of the bell curve. Most mentally ill are merely struggling to function, not plot evil doings while functioning reasonably well out and about in society. Psychopaths and sociopaths may be classed as mentally ill, along with child molesters, but they should be in a special category. They often don't exhibit need for help before they snap. So what can be done? Throw everybody who gets kicked out of school for disrupting classes into mental hospitals?

There are just some dangers in life. We can't protect all of us from everything that might happen.

(I am for the right to bear arms and against various assault guns and don't understand the arguments that the lines are somehow fuzzy between types of guns.)

[Fr_Chuck]

I guess I ask why name Bush,? If it was not for political reaction or a anti Bush slur, why not say it was done by a democratic congress during his time in office.

But I will agree and disagree, the weapons and clips were available in gun shops everywhere, the ones producd prior to the ban or at any shop where you know someone.

Plans to convert semi auto to full auto are everywhere you look on the internet, and there are sites to buy "upgrade" with instructions of what you are not allowed to do, that would make it auto.

If he had used a two handguns with a 15 shot clip, there is not a lot of difference, I think we can be glad he did not look up on the interent how to make a dozen different bombs from household items or from gun powder. He could have killed a lot more with a few bombs. That can be purchased without any controls ( the parts )

A nut case is always going to be able to kill another person, if they are willing to die over it. *** and I guess that is a question why he is not dead, and where were the police at this, do congress people not have at least some police body guards when they are out in public

[paraclete]

Well ex it seems that sometimes good laws are thrown out just because they don't have the right colour, now it's a pity they didn't have the same attitude towards the Bush tax cuts, eh? What you might find is the laws they enact this time might be more stringent and permanent. What will you gun lobby do then?

[excon]

Hello:

I only mention Bush to show that the rescission of the law was recent... I didn't mean it as a slam against George W. Bush... Honest.

excon

[Skell]

Hello tom:

You know what I think. An armed society is a POLITE society.

excon

But this doesn't actually seem to be the case..?.

[paraclete]

But this doesn't actually seem to be the case.?.?.

And you have evidence of this, where ex? I support Skell there is no indication that guns equate to politeness but there seems to be correlation between guns in a society and violence

[excon]

and you have evidence of this, where ex?

Hello clete:

I don't know about you, but when I see somebody is armed, I don't want to piss him off. You might do something else, so in your case, I could be wrong.

excon

[paraclete]

Hello clete:

I dunno about you, but when I see somebody is armed, I don't wanna piss him off. You might do something else, so in your case, I could be wrong.

excon

Well you see, Ex, I rarely see anyone who is armed excepting a police officer and as a law abiding citizen he has no reason to be interested in me. Last guy who approached me armed I took his gun off him but that was many years ago. This is a society that has demonstrated guns are not necessary to live peacefully with your neighbours

[NeedKarma]

I dunno about you, but when I see somebody is armed, I don't wanna piss him off.

That's not a polite society, that's a society that lives in fear and you are correct that it represents the US perfectly.

[cdad]

That's not a polite society, that's a society that lives in fear and you are correct that it represents the US perfectly.

This isn't even close to the truth. Its about slowing down and thinking. So someone doesn't act irresponsibly. Yes we have states with liberal gun laws and others that have much stricter laws. The ones with the more restrictive laws tend to be more violent. Go figure. Gang members have guns and they are banned by law to not own them. Its not about the guns but the responsibility of those that carry them. In states the changed their laws and went to more liberal gun laws the crime rates dropped. In states where carry permits can be had fairly easily gun crimes aren't near as bad as in places where gun banning is popular. The only thing I would like to see is that those that have permits to carry also should have the responsibility of proving they know how to use it. And that should be an ongoing thing. Not just like a drivers license where you get automatic renewal.

Its not about magazine size its about shooting and hitting. And if someone is intent on it they are going to do it without much stopping them at the onset. Look at the paralells of the other shooter recently in the news. The one that wanted suicide by police. He shot point blank and didn't hit a single person?? Im glad for that but you can see the dramatic difference. It's a tragidy anytime a life is lost. But with freedom comes responsibility. Its not the "old west" in the U.S.

[NeedKarma]

This isnt even close to the truth.

Actually it is. I am of course replying to excon's description of "polite". You went off on a tangent somewhere.

[tomder55]

Here is the complete Heinlein quote :
An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life

Makes sense to me.

[NeedKarma]

I guess we have different views on life. I like good manners for the sake of good manners, I don't do it because my life is at stake every time.