[paraclete]

I hear ya Tom. All you and the dufus have to do is prove it. Make sure you have clean hands first.

and what happens if he does prove it? A rerun of the election? Unlikely

[tomder55]

there will be a run off of the Georgia Senate races . Dems trying to steal that election too.

As to irregularities that have to be addressed . Well let's see .... 118 year old William Bradley voted via absentee ballot in Wayne County, Michigan. William Bradley died in 1984. Fact checkers are rushing to refute this,

[Athos]

As to irregularities that have to be addressed . Well let's see .... 118 year old William Bradley voted via absentee ballot in Wayne County, Michigan. William Bradley died in 1984. Fact checkers are rushing to refute this,

And refute it, they did! Easily researched, Tomder, but you prefer to stick with the false report. Google William Bradley vote. You're not helping your cause, tommie boy.

[talaniman]

and what happens if he does prove it? A rerun of the election? Unlikely

Let's deal with the proving it part first Clete. I warn you against holding your breath, or canceling better plans.

[paraclete]

oh come on tal allegation after allegation there must be some proof somewhere, you just can't have 100,000 votes all for the same person when the electorate is almost equally divided. You must be blind not to see it. I went to visit relatives on the day of the election and it still wasn't resolved when i got back and in the intervening time hundreds of thousands of "mail" ballots turned up. I will never believe this election wasn't rorted and nor will trump. now they have an opportunity to do it again in Georgia

[Athos]

oh come on tal allegation after allegation there must be some proof somewhere, you just can't have 100,000 votes all for the same person when the electorate is almost equally divided. You must be blind not to see it. I went to visit relatives on the day of the election and it still wasn't resolved when i got back and in the intervening time hundreds of thousands of "mail" ballots turned up. I will never believe this election wasn't rorted and nor will trump. now they have an opportunity to do it again in Georgia

On this issue Tal is dealing in facts. You are fantasizing based on nothing but your "feelings". Please spare us any future comments on how we do things in America. It's getting tiresome.

[paraclete]

On this issue Tal is dealing in facts. You are fantasizing based on nothing but your "feelings". Please spare us any future comments on how we do things in America. It's getting tiresome.

What is getting tiresome is your idea that things are done great in america, you could learn from successful democracies since yours appears to operate with star chambers and rorted elections

[talaniman]

You take a dim view of America Clete, like you're jealous or something. We know our flaws, as we build on our strengths, like everybody else.

[paraclete]

You take a dim view of America Clete, like you're jealous or something. We know our flaws, as we build on our strengths, like everybody else.

No I'm not jealous, what I'm sick of is america catches cold and everyone else gets the flu and I'm speaking economically. Trump's america first has been a disaster for our industries and his foreign policy equally a disaster, he has drawn us into a trade war with China and you are not suffering as we are. from where I stand your strengths are rhetoric and bullshlt

[Athos]

No I'm not jealous, what I'm sick of is america catches cold and everyone else gets the flu and I'm speaking economically. Trump's america first has been a disaster for our industries and his foreign policy equally a disaster, he has drawn us into a trade war with China and you are not suffering as we are. from where I stand your strengths are rhetoric and bullshlt

Your argument is with Trump - not America and Americans.

He's gone now - or soon will be. Just pray he doesn't move to Australia.

[paraclete]

Your argument is with Trump - not America and Americans.

He's gone now - or soon will be. Just pray he doesn't move to Australia.

He won't come here, we don't like blowhards and privileged persons. The problem predated Trump and no doubt will continue no matter who is in power. My problem is not with americans but the way your government operates. Trump wasn't the first to apply an america first policy it is endemic in your thinking. You are blind to the rest of the world, and I blame your education system for that

[Athos]

My problem is not with americans but the way your government operates. Trump wasn't the first to apply an america first policy it is endemic in your thinking. You are blind to the rest of the world, and I blame your education system for that

Does the blindness to the rest of the world include WW1, WW2, the Marshall Plan, the Cold War, the protection of Europe with NATO, a century of foreign aid, and more......

[paraclete]

Does the blindness to the rest of the world include WW1, WW2, the Marshall Plan, the Cold War, the protection of Europe with NATO, a century of foreign aid, and more......

dragged kicking and screaming into both WWI and WWII the cold war and NATO were just paranoia protecting your own but and most of your foreign aid, when the money actually gets out of the country is in tied aid spent on american goods... you see you are brainwashed into thinking you are actually doing good when you are just furthering your own interests. The world might be better off if you didn't reconstruct Germany and Japan and built up your allies instead.

[Athos]

dragged kicking and screaming into both WWI and WWII

If that is true, then so were all the allies dragged "kicking and screaming" into the wars.

the cold war and NATO were just paranoia protecting your own

Ask the Europeans about that and why they don't speak Russian today. And is there something wrong with "protecting your own"?

but and most of your foreign aid, when the money actually gets out of the country is in tied aid spent on american goods...

The countries who improved their lot via our foreign aid did not complain about our goods being "tied in".

you see you are brainwashed into thinking you are actually doing good when you are just furthering your own interests.

I think it's pretty clear who is being brainwashed. The hundreds of thousands of American dead fighting in two world wars did not have their interests "furthered".

The world might be better off if you didn't reconstruct Germany and Japan and built up your allies instead.

We did both and made for a better world. No major wars since American world involvement.

[jlisenbe]

Does the blindness to the rest of the world include WW1, WW2, the Marshall Plan, the Cold War, the protection of Europe with NATO, a century of foreign aid, and more......

For once I completely agree with Athos. The term "Arsenal of Democracy" was not coined in reference to Australia.

It's really laughable for Clete to speak of our school systems as though, sitting thousands of miles away, he has any idea what he's talking about. A little humility, Clete. A little humility. You make some good points, but you sometimes overreach yourself.

[talaniman]

Clete I understand you don't like the big dog in your neighborhood, and appreciate the rant venting those feelings, since you can't make us go away, and that can be frustrating until you grow bigger somehow, but think it through a bit more, as do you really think the world is better without us and would you rather have China or Russia walking around doing their thing in your neighborhood? Or surrounding you with there interests?

[jlisenbe]

do you really think the world is better without us and would you rather have China or Russia walking around doing their thing in your neighborhood?

Great question.

Good grief. What a day! It's not 10:00 a.m. and I have already agreed with BOTH Tal and Athos. The universe is coming apart at the seams. 8D

[talaniman]

Or coming together. Depend on how you look at it. 8)

[paraclete]

Clete I understand you don't like the big dog in your neighborhood, and appreciate the rant venting those feelings, since you can't make us go away, and that can be frustrating until you grow bigger somehow, but think it through a bit more, as do you really think the world is better without us and would you rather have China or Russia walking around doing their thing in your neighborhood? Or surrounding you with there interests?

China already surround us with their interests, because of our association with you and your foreign policies we are being sanctioned by China. Russia has never been a threat to us, except for some spy activity many years ago they hardly know we exist. You don't get it because you are paranoid. Both Russia and China are paranoid because they have been invaded many times. You are paranoid because the enemies you have made with your foreign policies attacked you. Your big dog barks long and loud at shadows and keeps us awake. We cannot grow much bigger, this is a dry continent and it will never support a large population.

[Athos]

Originally Posted by talaniman

Clete....do you really think the world is better without us and would you rather have China or Russia walking around doing their thing in your neighborhood? Or surrounding you with there interests?

China already surround us with their interests, because of our association with you and your foreign policies we are being sanctioned by China. Russia has never been a threat to us, except for some spy activity many years ago they hardly know we exist. You don't get it because you are paranoid. Both Russia and China are paranoid because they have been invaded many times. You are paranoid because the enemies you have made with your foreign policies attacked you. Your big dog barks long and loud at shadows and keeps us awake. We cannot grow much bigger, this is a dry continent and it will never support a large population.

You didn't answer the question.

Without America around, do you think Russia and/or China would have made a better world?