[jlisenbe]

Trump, like any weaselly con-man, is able to be ambiguous so the weak-minded see only the surface of what he claims.

I assume that you, of course, do not consider yourself to be amongst the "weak-minded". Wow. What a comment.

After 5 minority teenagers had been acquitted of a crime for which they had unjustly served many years, Trump continued to call them guilty even after DNA evidence proved otherwise. Why? They were brown and black. To this day, he still believes Obama was born in Africa, although public pressure made him grudgingly take that back. Then there's the refusal to rent to African-Americans in his apartments. Even after being fined by the Feds, he did it again! That should be an easy one to understand.

1. The "because they were black and brown" is pure conjecture on your part.
2. I don't think he believes Obama was born in Kenya, but even if he did, that would be more politics than anything else. Oops! I forgot about your mystical ability to ferret out meaning from statements too difficult for the rest of us to handle.
3. The issue with the apartments was primarily a case against his father. Even at that, there was no absolute refusal to rent to minorities as shown by the fact that about 5% of the tenants were black. The DOJ case sought to raise that to 10% which eventually happened. The case was then dropped.

It is certainly possible that Trump has some racial prejudices. It's possible that everyone on this board has them as well in addition to just about everyone on the earth, but it's an enormous stretch to suggest that his life has been guided by racism. I just don't think that is true at all.

As I've been saying, this is just politics. You had no problem supporting the two people who stood around and did nothing as five Americans died in Benghazi. You did so because you supported the same policies they believed in. Trump voters support him for the same reason. Perhaps one of these days it will be possible to have meaningful conversations with people who understand this and we can stop the perpetual finger pointing, name-calling, and moral posturing.

I am still interested, for instance, in Tal's middle ground. That could be a good starting point.

[paraclete]

Have you come this far, paraclete, to be linking to such an evil website?

It must be wonderful to have perfect knowledge, but I just tweeked the liberals NOSE

[talaniman]

One of the most egregious and insulting things that has come from the mouth of the dufus is what he has done for the blacks. You have expressed that also, and to be honest it makes my blood boil. Some things are not liberal or conservative but extremely personal. That's one of them! Another was pointing to a black guy at a rally and exclaiming there's my black guy! His appeal to those loony right wing extremist racists whose votes he NEEDS is also VERY disturbing. You may not care about any of those things but I sure do, so you may as well right or wrong ACCEPT that's just the feelings among some that some refuse to let others just ignore, and dismiss as just silly season politics as usual.

Another thing that makes my blood boil is the abject willingness for cruelty exhibited over and over for women and children. Something you easily dismiss, but should NOT. I mean it's always a red flag when denying bad behavior "not my type", and just worse cruelty to make a point or for a deterrence. It's no secret I don't suffer bullies at all, but when a guy LIES all the time and you take his word without verification, and can write it off as a big mouth, you make me scratch my head like WHAT?

Your right wing loony links though says it all, as does Clete's last one, though the attempt to tweek liberal noses is a MO or maybe that Aussie humor on display, which falls into the category of Misinformed, or low information input. Fact is there are not enough facts and details in the Green New Deal for anyone to price or vet accurately. That makes your cost assertions as speculative as the links you provided.

I won't let my friend Tom off the hook either, while we do agree on some things, romantic capitalist that he is, knows better to make a picture the example of all the dem strongholds while ignoring the same thing on the other side. Maybe the big cities are run by dems and have issues, but repub strongholds and there are a lot of them in red states across the country, that have the same slums as repubs do. Poverty and economic policy is a HUGE complex problem everywhere in the country.

[jlisenbe]

Your right wing loony links though says it all

Which one? I'm gonna bet you can't come up with a single one. I try to be very careful with my links. Just because they contain information that does not support your narrative does not make them loony.

As for your first paragraph, the lowest black unemployment in history would, I think, be something to celebrate. As to the supposed cruelty, I just don't agree with you on that. It's a difficult situation on the border. If you want to talk about cruelty, why aren't you talking about the dire situations in Chicago, Detroit, Baltimore, New Orleans, or many other large American cities led by democrats? It is a much, much worse situation in those cities than on the border. People are being murdered by the dozens every week but no one seems to care. Why? Politics. Stinkin politics. If they were led by republicans, you'd be all over it, but since it's democrats then I guess it's OK.

But aside from that, I'd still like to hear your ideas on where the middle is. What ideas could be considered middle?

We were also going to discuss the ideas listed from AOC and her group. When I pointed out the impossible costs of those ideas, the discussion kind of dried up.

[talaniman]

Fact is there are not enough facts and details in the Green New Deal for anyone to price or vet accurately. That makes your cost assertions as speculative as the links you provided.

So your position is that there are no slums in republican run cities, no poor people in red states, and if there are, they are democrats and liberals, or lazy?

My solution to this is kick out the bums like Moscow Mitch, and the other dufus sycophants in the senate, and pass a sweeping infrastructure bill for the cities, and pay for it by rescinding the deficit funded tax cuts to the rich, ALL of them, closing ALL the special interests rich guy loopholes, and apply a 2% wealth tax on the 1%, and start sending the proper people to the southern border to process migrants humanely and expeditiously, Defend the stupid repeal of Obama Care attempt by repub states attorneys, through the DOJ, and finally just for a start stop those dumb sanctions of China, and add a few more to Russia, and cut ties with the Saudis immediately. I would start impeachment of the dufus and FREEZE any and all executive orders or military policies he has enacted.

That's phase 1 of my plan. Phase 2 Starts with sentencing you to a race sensitivity course run by a Christian institute in Texas so I can collect on that coffee every morning until you graduate.

[jlisenbe]

My solution to this is kick out the bums like Moscow Mitch, and the other dufus sycophants in the senate, and pass a sweeping infrastructure bill for the cities, and pay for it by rescinding the deficit funded tax cuts to the rich, ALL of them, closing ALL the special interests rich guy loopholes, and apply a 2% wealth tax on the 1%, and start sending the proper people to the southern border to process migrants humanely and expeditiously,

Rather interestingly, your plan did not involve kicking out the democrat mayors and alderman that run those cities. How strange that you have no interest in holding the people in charge responsible. Might try going to the five fastest growing American cities and see what they are doing differently. #1 Grand Rapids, Michigan, #2 Nashville, Tennessee, #3 Raleigh, North Carolina, #4 El Paso, Texas, #5 San Antonio, Texas.

Your tax plan would not even come close to balancing the budget. Not even close.

That's phase 1 of my plan. Phase 2 Starts with sentencing you to a race sensitivity course run by a Christian institute in Texas so I can collect on that coffee every morning until you graduate.

There is only one of us so obsessed with bringing up race as a major issue. That would be you. Maybe you should go?? I endeavor to treat everyone fairly and not characterize a person by his/her race. Not too sure how to do better than that. Kiss up to someone because of his/her race? Nah.

[Athos]

I assume that you, of course, do not consider yourself to be amongst the "weak-minded".

No, but I do consider you to be.

[LEFT] It must be wonderful to have perfect knowledge, but I just tweeked the liberals NOSE

Direct question: do you support the Neo-Nazi movement? Is there any reason why you promoted a Neo-Nazi website by publishing its link?

[talaniman]

Rather interestingly, your plan did not involve kicking out the democrat mayors and alderman that run those cities. How strange that you have no interest in holding the people in charge responsible. Might try going to the five fastest growing American cities and see what they are doing differently. #1 Grand Rapids, Michigan, #2 Nashville, Tennessee, #3 Raleigh, North Carolina, #4 El Paso, Texas, #5 San Antonio, Texas.

My plan is a national one for the COUNTRY. I let the locals run there own communities, just help with some structural job creating upgrades and improvements.

Your tax plan would not even come close to balancing the budget. Not even close.

Not trying to balance the budget, just grow the economy, and help communities, and mitigate the costs.

There is only one of us so obsessed with bringing up race as a major issue. That would be you. Maybe you should go?? I endeavor to treat everyone fairly and not characterize a person by his/her race. Not too sure how to do better than that. Kiss up to someone because of his/her race? Nah.

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence,

^{[note 1]}

promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

The words of these documents are powerful ,and maybe YOU live by a higher standard there are and have been those where race is a big deal and their disrespect knows no bounds. Because YOU cannot see racism in your fellows does that mean it doesn't exist? Often right under your nose. When the dufus exclaimed that there were good people among the blood and soil chanters it was but another sleight against people of color and has many since and while I can forgive such a trespass, he has not asked for it.

So he gets NONE and has earned my disdain. Many in the minority community and even some of our blue eyed brothers feel that way. Just sayin'

[jlisenbe]

Not trying to balance the budget, just grow the economy, and help communities, and mitigate the costs.

And thereby grow the national debt.

The words of these documents are powerful ,and maybe YOU live by a higher standard there are and have been those where race is a big deal and their disrespect knows no bounds. Because YOU cannot see racism in your fellows does that mean it doesn't exist? Often right under your nose. When the dufus exclaimed that there were good people among the blood and soil chanters it was but another sleight against people of color and has many since and while I can forgive such a trespass, he has not asked for it.

So he gets NONE and has earned my disdain. Many in the minority community and even some of our blue eyed brothers feel that way. Just sayin'

I think that's a somewhat fair statement. There are people who either intentionally or inadvertently practice racial prejudice. Now they are people of every color, and not just white, but I would agree that all of us being more sensitive to that would be helpful. And yes, Trump has not always been helpful in that regard, but Obama had his missteps as well. But to say that Trump has done nothing to help the black community would be inaccurate.

I would still like to hear your description of the middle ground. Seriously.

[paraclete]

No, but I do consider you to be.




Direct question: do you support the Neo-Nazi movement? Is there any reason why you promoted a Neo-Nazi website by publishing its link?

No doubt you have heard of the internet, you provide some search terms and it provides answers, it doesn't rate the answers according to political affiliation or even tell you the political affiliation. If you expect my postings to be backed up by investigative measures you will wait a long time. I saw nothing in the article that would alert me to neo-nazism. However you are using nazi tactics with guilt by association

[talaniman]

Dude, the way it works is one side lays out it's plan, and the other side lays out their plan. Then they negotiate the middle. I laid out my plan. Where's yours?

Another shoe has dropped as NY has subpoenaed the trump organization.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...ver-hush-money

[jlisenbe]

Dude, the way it works is one side lays out it's plan, and the other side lays out their plan. Then they negotiate the middle. I laid out my plan. Where's yours?

Where is your plan? Are you talking about this?

Medicare for All
A Living Wage & Labor Rights
K-16 schooling, aka Public Colleges
100% Renewable Energy
Fixing the pipes in Flint
Not Hurting Immigrants
Holding Wall Street Accountable

[paraclete]

These are all commendable objectives, why do you complain so much

[talaniman]

My solution to this is kick out the bums like Moscow Mitch, and the other dufus sycophants in the senate, and pass a sweeping infrastructure bill for the cities, and pay for it by rescinding the deficit funded tax cuts to the rich, ALL of them, closing ALL the special interests rich guy loopholes, and apply a 2% wealth tax on the 1%, and start sending the proper people to the southern border to process migrants humanely and expeditiously, Defend the stupid repeal of Obama Care attempt by repub states attorneys, through the DOJ, and finally just for a start stop those dumb sanctions of China, and add a few more to Russia, and cut ties with the Saudis immediately. I would start impeachment of the dufus and FREEZE any and all executive orders or military policies he has enacted.

You missed it, or more accurately dismissed it even though I laid out a pay for.

[jlisenbe]

These are all commendable objectives, why do you complain so much

I'm not complaining about them. I'm asking Tal if those are his plans that he mentioned. If you're not going to keep up on a thread, then keep your nose out of it.

Addendum. The "nose" comment was rude. My apologies.

[talaniman]

These are all commendable objectives, why do you complain so much

He seldom knows the nuances very well Clete, but have hope, he can learn...I think!

[jlisenbe]

OK. Gotcha. I mistook it for one of your rants.

My solution to this is kick out the bums like Moscow Mitch, and the other dufus sycophants in the senate, and pass a sweeping infrastructure bill for the cities, and pay for it by rescinding the deficit funded tax cuts to the rich, ALL of them, closing ALL the special interests rich guy loopholes, and apply a 2% wealth tax on the 1%, and start sending the proper people to the southern border to process migrants humanely and expeditiously, Defend the stupid repeal of Obama Care attempt by repub states attorneys, through the DOJ, and finally just for a start stop those dumb sanctions of China, and add a few more to Russia, and cut ties with the Saudis immediately. I would start impeachment of the dufus and FREEZE any and all executive orders or military policies he has enacted.

My plan.

1. Implement a tax plan that requires everyone who makes income over $2,000 to pay 10% federal income tax. If you live here and enjoy the benefits of being in America, you should have to help pay for it.
2. Implement a second tax plan that requires a 20% income tax on all income over 80,000 a year. There will be no deductions other than for dependents. It's your bill for running the fed government. Do away with the marriage penalty.
2a. Legally restrict the fed tax code for personal income to no more that ten pages that every average American can understand.
3. Adjust/cut spending over four years to match the money coming in from fed taxation and thus have a balanced budget.
3b. Cut all federal employees' wages by 10%. Increase their work week to 42 hours. If they don't like it they can leave.
4. Build the wall and thus solve the crisis on the southern border.
5. Learn to mind our own business in foreign relations. Make it clear that we will participate in alliances but will no longer carry the burden alone.
6. Get rid of Obamacare.
7. Pass a law that any congressman proposing new spending must also specify how it will be paid for. If he/she does not, they will be taken behind the capital building and whipped severely.
8. Continue to hammer foreign nations that engage in unfair trade practices which result in lost jobs for Americans.
9. Require every federal employee to sign a pledge to put America first.
10. Appoint federal judges committed to the rule of law and honoring the clear intent of the Constitution.
11. Pass a law forbidding the feds from giving money to individual cities to solve problems the city itself should be responsible for. Encourage them to elect government officials that actually know what they're doing.
12. I would be open to discussing raising the minimum wage to 15 an hour if we also did away with welfare programs for mantally/physically healthy people.
13. Get rid of the gold-plated medical and retirement plans for federal politicians.

[paraclete]

I'm not complaining about them. I'm asking Tal if those are his plans that he mentioned. If you're not going to keep up on a thread, then keep your nose out of it.

Addendum. The "nose" comment was rude. My apologies.

We have a saying where I come from GSASA and another GOYA when put together they suggest that you might thinK about your responses, I have no intention of staying out of things because it suits you so GOYA and take your own advise

[jlisenbe]

We have a saying where I come from GSASA and another GOYA when put together they suggest that you might thinK about your responses, I have no intention of staying out of things because it suits you so GOYA and take your own advise

I'll put it nicely. It would nice if you would keep up with the thread so your comments would make sense. But that's fine. Fire away. As the old saying goes, "Opinions are like noses. Everyone has one."

[Athos]

Ratcliffe exposed as the source of the infamous FBI "Secret Society" hoax!

This nitwit is the clown Trump wants to head the intelligence efforts of the US.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. You just can't make this stuff up!

Ratcliffe was such a bad choice, even Trump couldn't overcome the opposition. Ratcliffe withdrew his nomination.