[jlisenbe]

Sometimes, when it was warranted. "Cross the street without looking and you could get run over." "Smart-off to your mother and you'll deal with me."

Truthfully, I believe the Bible. You don't because it offends you. You disagree with the statements of Jesus in Matthew 25. I think he knows a lot more than you do, so I'm going with him.

To be fair, there is certainly more to the message than judgment and hell, but if it's true then we are being hateful to not tell people. They need to know.

[Wondergirl]

I also believe the Bible but accept that it contains poetry, allegories, parables, etc. that help tell the truths within. I don't read the entire Bible literally.

[jlisenbe]

You dismiss what you dislike.

I also believe the Bible but accept that it contains poetry, allegories, parables, etc. that help tell the truths within. I don't read the entire Bible literally.

Sorry, but your statement is meaningless. It's like saying, "I read the Bible in English," or "I read the text from left to right." Everyone does what you stated. No one takes every part literally. The key element is, when do we switch from literal to figurative? When you can answer that, then you will have a point that can be discussed.

[Wondergirl]

If I told you that, you'd argue.

Okay. The Adam and Eve story is an allegory. Jesus' death and resurrection are literal.

[jlisenbe]

The key element is, when (why) do we switch from literal to figurative? When you can answer that, then you will have a point that can be discussed.

You haven't answered this. I'm asking for your own reason for designating some passages as literal and others as figurative. I'm not asking simply for arbitrary examples.

[Wondergirl]

In the Psalms, the hills clapped their hands. Literal or figurative?

[jlisenbe]

You still haven't answered the question. Perhaps I should rephrase it. What rule do you use to determine when a passage is to be taken literally or when it is to be taken figuratively? Think it through carefully. More tomorrow.

[Wondergirl]

I take the Bible to be literal where its language is meant to be literal, but figurative where the biblical authors intended to be figurative or symbolic. E.g., hills clapping their hands. Jesus as the door? We are sheep gone astray? Definitely not literal.

[jlisenbe]

I take the Bible to be literal where its language is meant to be literal, but figurative where the biblical authors intended to be figurative or symbolic.

OK, but how do you make that determination? What criteria do you use to determine what the "biblical authors intended"?

[Wondergirl]

It's usually quite obvious. (I was an English major who had an excellent teacher of literary terminology.) If not, I search the Scriptures.

[jlisenbe]

But again, what criteria do you use? You decided, for instance, that the creation of man was figurative but the resurrection of Christ was literal. What criteria did you use to make that determination?

[Wondergirl]

The creation story of Adam and Eve, not the creation of man.

Criteria? My brain, my excellent Christian education, years of experience as a Bible student and teacher, my willingness to do research and ask questions.

[jlisenbe]

In other words, you don't know. And that's OK. Just asking.

[Wondergirl]

In other words, you don't know. And that's OK. Just asking.

Why the putdown?? I have no idea of what your definition of "criteria" is.

[jlisenbe]

It's not a putdown. You can't state what criteria (a very common, well-known word) you use. I'm simply acknowledging that. I imagine most people cannot.

[Wondergirl]

Not good enough for you? Criteria: principles or standards by which something may be judged or decided:

"Criteria? My brain, my excellent Christian education, years of experience as a Bible student and teacher, my willingness to do research and ask questions."

[jlisenbe]

I'm glad you discovered the meaning of "criteria". Now you need to learn the meaning of these two nouns.

principles or standards

A "brain" is not a principle or a standard, nor is an education or "years of experience" or any willingness to do research. Use those research skills to discover what method should be used to distinguish between a passage meant to be taken literally versus one meant to be taken figuratively.

[Wondergirl]

Aha! The ones you take literally I might take figuratively. Adam and Eve, The Flood, Jonah and the Great Fish, Hell.

[jlisenbe]

And without even knowing why!!

[Wondergirl]

And I'm right and you know it and you're trying desperately to make them true or your faith is in vain!

Which brings me to the question of the day...does a Christian have to believe in everything exactly correctly in order to be saved?