[speechlesstx]

The incessant preaching does not turn people to your side - in my opinion it strenghtens my decision that I don't want any part of a group that has a superiority complex and condems others for not being like them.

So basically I don't care what happens after I die, I am enjoying the current voyage. If you look at the initial question of this thread and Poppa's comment you'll see why I took exception to it. Once again it's people like that that reaffirm my decisions.

NeedKarma, granted, many Christians - too many - seem to have that superiority complex instead of the dose humility they need. On the other hand, should Christians compromise their beliefs? I don't think so, we really have no choice but to stand on our beliefs. We have a standard called the bible, which does leave room for compromise on non-essential issues, but not on core doctrines which are very clearly established. When we compromise those that's when we become hypocrites.

True Christianity is not an intolerant religion, it is one that stands firm to its standard but also aheres to the concept of free will. We are not wrong for telling others what we believe and why (incessant preaching if you want), but the choice must be left to you. We are not wrong for examining the beliefs of other denominations under the light of scripture, but it isn't our place to say "everyone else is wrong" because they don't baptize like we do, can't trace their roots to the first church, or whatever other insignificant complaint they have. True Christianity says "it's not about us." It's about Jesus and your relationship to him and it isn't our place to judge that relationship, everyone is accountable for themselves.

But what you may not know is the religion the author of this question adheres to is a religion that is intolerant of every other religion. In fact, the rest of us - Baptists, Catholics, Lutherans, Methodists, etc. make up "apostate Christianity" they call "Christendom" in their view, and entirely helpless without their organization. From "Christendom Has Betrayed God and the Bible":

Included among those who do not live by the Bible are the peoples and nations of Christendom. "Christendom" is defined as that part of the world where Christianity prevails. It is largely the Western world with its church systems, which from about the fourth century C.E. became prominent. Christendom has had the Bible for centuries, and its clergy claim to teach it and to be God's representatives. But do the clergy and missionaries of Christendom teach the truth? Do their actions really represent God and the Bible? Does Christianity really prevail in Christendom? No. Since its religion came to the forefront in the fourth century, Christendom has proved to be an enemy of God and of the Bible. Yes, the facts of history show that Christendom has betrayed God and the Bible...

No, the nations and churches of Christendom were not, and are not, Christian...

Thus, by what they have taught and what they have done, the religions of Christendom have demonstrated that their claim of believing in the Bible and of being God-fearing and Christian is a lie. They have betrayed God and the Bible.

As for how the author of this question personally believes in that regard I can't say, nor would I judge her relationship with God, but I can say her organization calls the rest of us liars that have betrayed God and the bible. Who is the hypocrite?

[NeedKarma]

I agree with you - good post.

The part that gets my goat is that some here keep pushing the fact that since we are not like them we must be on the "wrong path" and we don't know the "truth" and they will pray for us to "find our way" to their beliefs. I don't do that to them nor do most of other posters. We are not blatantly telling them that their choices are wrong. It's like they have taken Jesus' message of love and bastardized it beyond recognition.

[speechlesstx]

Hope, as I said before, EVERYONE will be resurrected:

[INDENT]That is correct everyone will be resurrected from their grave. That proves that people do not go to heaven or hell when they die. Thank you for your reply

Nope, it just proves everyone will be resurrected, it does not say what's happens in the interim nor does it prove whether mankind has a soul. In Matthew 17, Moses and Elijah appeared "talking" with Christ at the transfiguration. How was that possible if man ceases to exist, "asleep in the dust awaiting a resurrection" as the Watchtower of 5/15/97 states? Oh yeah, it was only symbolic, a vision. If you believe it was only a vision, that these disciples were just seeing things, you're charging God with deception. Why would God show two long dead saints that should be "asleep in the dust," instead speaking with Jesus? Is God deceptive?

[Bubbler]

Hello Everyone,

We all live a sheltered life of comfort. But what happens to those who are not "Gods children?"

Are these the ones to be resurrected to life or death?

Where are the dead according to your personal belief system until the Resurrection?

Please back up your beliefs with why you believe the way you do. Thank you.

Hope12

How can you ask people for there view and then write - >>

That is not what the scripture says. John 5:28-29 That there will be a resurrection of the rightwous and the unrighteous. Those who did good to a resurrection of life and those who did bad to a resurrection to death. Then who is in heaven or hell

You asked people to back up what there belief is and the way that that view the bible and the question your asking !

So I feel it is wrong for you to slate someone about an open question, and putting there view across.

The problem with the modern church is that a lot of people seem to suffer the problem of exclusive christianity, you would have been better to write if you do not agree with my view's or my points then please do not answer the question !

This forum has a lot of people that can call upon the name of Jesus as there savior, that come from all corners of the earth and all denominations of Christianity, I do not play the judge game or that my belief is better than yours.

As a Christian I have been apolled with the way some people have spoken and treated or none believing brothers and sisters !

There but by the grace of God go I

[ordinaryguy]

What is it you require to know about death that makes your life worth living?

An excellent question, NK.

One thing this thread is making clearer to me is the apparently widely-held belief among Christians that our life in this physical body has no inherent spiritual value or purpose of its own. Its only real purpose is to determine whether we get to go to heaven at the end of it. Everything else is a distraction and temptation of the Devil, who wants us to go to hell instead. To me, such an attitude seems ungrateful in the extreme, and a terrible waste of a precious and generous gift.

[speechlesstx]

I agree with you - good post.

The part that gets my goat is that some here keep pushing the fact that since we are not like them we must be on the "wrong path" and we don't know the "truth" and they will pray for us to "find our way" to their beliefs. I don't do that to them nor do most of other posters. We are not blatantly telling them that their choices are wrong. It's like they have taken Jesus' message of love and bastardized it beyond recognition.

Just exactly who is "blatantly telling them that their choices are wrong" because I must have missed that part somewhere.

[speechlesstx]

The problem with the modern church is that a lot of people seem to suffer the problem of exclusive christianity

Absolutely, I agree with that. And the religion in question here is among the worst offenders in my opinion.

[NeedKarma]

Just exactly who is "blatantly telling them that their choices are wrong" because I must have missed that part somewhere.

Hope12 disagrees: I totallly disagree because then there is no purpose to living.

poppa0777 disagrees: We can trust the Holy Bible to see where our final destination will be. Period.

I pray that the truth you reject will be made real to you.

Q. Can you conceive that there may be a faith that is true for someone else, yet differs from your own?
A. Only in the natural. My spirit rules though & tells me it's SIN

You don't mingle well in the Christian category because the truth hurts. But instead of letting the Bible condemn you, there is hope because a Christian's truth is the truth that can set you free.
Seek Jesus, NK. He loves you very much & is waiting for you to accept that love.

[poppa0777]

I agree with you - good post.

The part that gets my goat is that some here keep pushing the fact that since we are not like them we must be on the "wrong path" and we don't know the "truth" and they will pray for us to "find our way" to their beliefs. I don't do that to them nor do most of other posters. We are not blatantly telling them that their choices are wrong. It's like they have taken Jesus' message of love and bastardized it beyond recognition.

NK,
The central message of the Scriptures is to tell the world who Jesus is, why He came, what He done for us while on earth, and finally evangelize the world by telling the story.
I am not going to tell any body they are wrong. I am simply quoting verbatim by copying and pasting from the Scriptures. I become the enemy because I remind people what the Bible says.
All of you need to understand that those of us who hold fast to the tenants of our faith do so because we firmly believe the Word of God is true, should be adhered to to the best of our abilities, and tell the story.
I must very respectfully say that I completely understand that this is offensive to some people... however, you must understand that we are not the Authors of the Scriptures... only messengers.
There is no where in the Word of God that makes any apologies for what it says. Again, the Scripture is very clear that all born again Christians are simply to herald the message. Will much of it fall on "deaf ears"? Yes! Will some become angry? Yes! But that does not relieve me of the responsibility to tell the story. What people do with the Gospel story is always a personal choice.
Additionally, please understand the following Scriptures that makes me accountable to God...
(Eze 3:17) Son of man, I have made thee a watchman unto the house of Israel: therefore hear the word at my mouth, and give them warning from me.
(Eze 3:18) When I say unto the wicked, Thou shalt surely die; and thou givest him not warning, nor speakest to warn the wicked from his wicked way, to save his life; the same wicked man shall die in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at thine hand.
(Eze 3:19) Yet if thou warn the wicked, and he turn not from his wickedness, nor from his wicked way, he shall die in his iniquity; but thou hast delivered thy soul.
(Eze 3:20) Again, When a righteous man doth turn from his righteousness, and commit iniquity, and I lay a stumblingblock before him, he shall die: because thou hast not given him warning, he shall die in his sin, and his righteousness which he hath done shall not be remembered; but his blood will I require at thine hand.
(Eze 3:21) Nevertheless if thou warn the righteous man, that the righteous sin not, and he doth not sin, he shall surely live, because he is warned; also thou hast delivered thy soul.

[Bubbler]

Hope12 disagrees: I totallly disagree becuase then there is no purpose to living. [posted here]

Why do you ask for our views then disagree with them? Do you see any of us disagreeing with you? What is wrong with you people???? Do you PM each other to gang up on dissenting views?

The problem with the modern church is that a lot of people seem to suffer the problem of exclusive christianity !

[poppa0777]

The problem with the modern church is that a lot of people seem to suffer the problem of exclusive christianity !

Bubbler,
Exclusive Christianity, as you call it, to me, is doing one's best to adhere to the teachings of the Holy Bible.
Actually, I like the term "exclusive Christianity. Why?? Because the word Christian means to "belong to Christ". Christianity by definition is an experience, not a denomination or religion.
Maybe by your views The Church of Satan should be included as well???
To be a Child of God is the most important thing in my life. If you don't believe this as well ,(which is apparent) possibly you should refrain from posting on a CHRISTIANITY website. There may be more appropriate sites for you, as this one seems to frustrate you.
I will agree that the modern church has a lot of problems; but I think that most of them stem from loose living, sin, compromise, and much more.
I don't think you people can "endure sound doctrine". You would rather "heap to yourselves teachers having itching ears".
As unflexible as I may seem, Bubbler, I love the Lord Jesus Christ with all of my heart, and care enough about this lost and dying world to tell the truth. Itb just seems that a lot of people don't want to hear the truth. I hope you don't fit into that category, Bubbler.
Most of my posts are directly from the Bible. They are not my words... they are the words of the Lord . He is the Author... I am only the messenger. If you don't want to believe the Bible, or only the parts that fit you, go for it! I hope you do not find out too late my friend, that ignoring or making light of God's Word may be fine to live by... but not to die by.
Zeal without knowledge is a very dangerous thing.

[NeedKarma]

Reminds me of the annoying Jehovah Witnesses that come right to my door uninvited.

<unsubscribes from thread and goes to Red Cross to donate a pint>

[ordinaryguy]

I am not going to tell any body they are wrong. I am simply quoting verbatim by copying and pasting from the Scriptures.

This is a perfectly valid technique to use when debating with those who share your acceptance of the Bible as the only legitimate Scripture and the inerrant Word of God. But using it with those who don't share that belief does little to persuade them, and makes you appear dogmatic and arrogant in forcing your choice of holy book on them. Ask yourself how you would respond to similar behavior by a Muslim quoting the Koran to show you the error of your ways. Would you be persuaded?

I become the enemy because I remind people what the Bible says.
All of you need to understand that those of us who hold fast to the tenants of our faith do so because we firmly believe the Word of God is true, should be adhered to to the best of our abilities, and tell the story.
I must very respectfully say that I completely understand that this is offensive to some people....however, you must understand that we are not the Authors of the Scriptures....only messengers.

I do understand that you aren't the author of the Bible, but it is your choice to accept it as the only legitimate Scripture, isn't it? If you wish to persuade those who have chosen differently in this regard, you may need to adjust your tactics, that's all. No one is asking you to give up your faith or compromise your principles, it's just that your method of debate is counterproductive when dealing with people who don't already share your choice of holy book.

There is no where in the Word of God that makes any apologies for what it says. Again, the Scripture is very clear that all born again Christians are simply to herald the message. Will much of it fall on "deaf ears"? Yes! Will some become angry? Yes! But that does not relieve me of the responsibility to tell the story. What people do with the Gospel story is always a personal choice.

Of course it is, and what people do with the message of the Koran or the Bhagavad Gita is also a personal choice, but having Muslims or Hindus browbeat you with the words of those books won't convince you of their truth, will it?

[Retrotia]

This is a perfectly valid technique to use when debating with those who share your acceptance of the Bible as the only legitimate Scripture and the inerrant Word of God. But using it with those who don't share that belief does little to persuade them, and makes you appear dogmatic and arrogant in forcing your choice of holy book on them. Ask yourself how you would respond to similar behavior by a Muslim quoting the Koran to show you the error of your ways. Would you be persuaded?


I do understand that you aren't the author of the Bible, but it is your choice to accept it as the only legitimate Scripture, isn't it? If you wish to persuade those who have chosen differently in this regard, you may need to adjust your tactics, that's all. No one is asking you to give up your faith or compromise your principles, it's just that your method of debate is counterproductive when dealing with people who don't already share your choice of holy book.


Of course it is, and what people do with the message of the Koran or the Bhagavad Gita is also a personal choice, but having Muslims or Hindus browbeat you with the words of those books won't convince you of their truth, will it?

You are one hateful, miserable dude. If you don't like the religion, change the channel.
Religious freedom. You too Skull. Totally prejudiced because we aren't like you
You are the ones coming on here because you want to harass. If this were a church I'd have you arrested for harassment. Go away! RIP!

[cal823]

The problem with the modern church is that a lot of people seem to suffer the problem of exclusive christianity

Our church is quite inclusive, it's a great church, and all people are welcome to come, we even get atheist and agnostic and unsure people coming along to our Friday night youth church quite regularly.

[Skell]

You are one hateful, miserable dude. If you don't like the religion, change the channel.
Religious freedom. You too Skull. Totally prejudiced bc we aren't like you
You are the ones coming on here bc you want to harass. If this were a church I'd have you arrested for harassment. Go away! RIP!

Very honest and sincere of you to edit this thread after my comment was made.

No one is harassing. I haven't yet harassed and I haven't seen anyone else. I just see a debate between various people with different viewpoints.

Sorry if you feel harassed.

And my name is Skell!!

[ordinaryguy]

You are one hateful, miserable dude. If you don't like the religion, change the channel.
Religious freedom. You too Skull. Totally prejudiced bc we aren't like you
You are the ones coming on here bc you want to harass. If this were a church I'd have you arrested for harassment. Go away! RIP!

Wow. Makes me think I should give the Bible another look. There may be something to that "Love your enemies, bless those that curse you, pray for those who spitefully use you" stuff. Bless you, Retro. I love you. I'm praying for you.

[speedball1]

You are one hateful, miserable dude. If you don't like the religion, change the channel.
Religious freedom. You too Skull. Totally prejudiced because we aren't like you
You are the ones coming on here because you want to harass. If this were a church I'd have you arrested for harassment. Go away! RIP!

Spoken like a true religious fanatic! Doesn't the word "intolerance " just jump right out atcha? I've seen this tactic used many times by the religious whackos outside the cliunic I used to work at. If you're losing a debate then mount a personal attack on your opponent. And that's exactly what's happened here. Iv'e watched this thread go downhill until it's nothing more then a platform for fundamentalists to proselytize there particular brand of religion. The mods should close off this thread as being nonproductive and augmentative.
And it took a atheist to point this out to you people. Go figure!

[laurenjd]

If you believe in the Bible,you can find your answer there. Granted, people take what it says very differently, I believe the Bible is pretty clear about most issues. Still, we take the Bible as we want, how we feel in our hearts. The Bible is also clear about not hounding others beliefs. It is very important to follow the Bibles commands, every last one! I simply believe we spend too much time and energy focusing and arguing on petty matters, and we miss what God really put us here for! Now,it is important for the nonbeliever to know where they could end up if they don't turn to God, but lets not forget what Jesus told his disciples!They asked him what the most important commandment is, and He said to love God... and your neighbor... every other law falls under this!! So if you truly live in love, what's there to worry about? God sees the heart!

[NeedKarma]

The Bible is also clear about not hounding others beliefs.

Yet:
"laurenjd disagrees: The Bible specifically tells us what will happen"

You contradict yourself.