[Credendovidis]

You go girl!:D

Hmmmm... Between my legs hangs a "Glockenspiel".

:D

[wildandblue]

OOpsie.

[Credendovidis]

OOpsie.

Don't kick me there, please...

LOL

:D

[De Maria]

DeMaria,

Credendovidis was insulting you and others. :) He's an atheist.

I was told by management that since there is no atheist board, this is the board I can use to have discussion with religionists and other atheists.

So, knock off your attitude toward me. :)

Your smilies indicate that you have written this in good faith.

I'll respond in good faith.

I understand that management told you that you could have discussion with religionists and atheists on this board. But they didn't say you had free reign to insult Christians on this board, did they?

There are ways to speak to people. If you personally don't believe in God that is your prerogative. However, your previous message declared that believing Christians were immature unless they left behind their faith in God. In other words, you called me immature. That's an insult.

Here is what you said, and I quote:

This is the twenty-first century... a "mature Christian" is now a Christian who has matured enough to reject the supernatural as childish nonsense from antiquity and take up Secular Humanism.

So, if you want to have a polite discussion, you don't have to agree with us and you don't need to add smilies to your message, just speak to us with respect.

Otherwise you will get what you dish out.

Peace :)

Sincerely,

De Maria

[De Maria]

[to reply to Ordinary Guy]Well remember the story about how God would leave 99 sheep in the wilderness just to go back to look for one who was straying. About how there's much joy in heaven when a sinner returns to the fold. About how the loyal son got jealous over the fuss his father made when the prodigal son returned home to his family. And when you raise a child, if he does the wrong thing later, maybe gets into trouble, you yourself feel personally responsible--maybe I wasn't a good father, maybe I didn't raise him right? Is it my fault he turned out like that? And even if you know you tried your best you suspect other people are thinking that sort of thing, and you'd feel bad. So I try to make any passing thoughts God might have about me,his child, hopefully good ones....

Awesome!

Your last thought

So I try to make any passing thoughts God might have about me,his child, hopefully good ones

Comes mighty close to a Christian devotion known as "the Presence of God".
CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Presence of God

Sincerely,

De Maria

[wildandblue]

De Maria thanks for all your thoughts and input. Credo is just ticked off cause I butted in to one of his other arguments he was having with someone else. Told him his precious science, theory of relativity can prove the Earth was created in 7 days. He is super smart, which automatically makes him hard to get along with... God wants us either hot or cold, not lukewarm! He will hate me but I am praying for him. That's OK I've been hated by some of the best. Like water off a duck's back.

[De Maria]

De Maria thanks for all your thoughts and input. Credo is just ticked off cause I butted in to one of his other arguements he was having with someone else. Told him his precious science, theory of relativity can prove the Earth was created in 7 days. He is super smart, which automatically makes him hard to get along with...God wants us either hot or cold, not lukewarm! He will hate me but I am praying for him. That's OK I've been hated by some of the best. Like water off a duck's back.

Lol!! I love your attitude!

1 Thessalonians 2 6 Nor sought we glory of men,.

[ordinaryguy]

There are ways to speak to people. If you personally don't believe in God that is your prerogative. However, your previous message declared that believing Christians were immature unless they left behind their faith in God. In other words, you called me immature. That's an insult.
...
So, if you want to have a polite discussion, you don't have to agree with us and you don't need to add smilies to your message, just speak to us with respect.

Otherwise you will get what you dish out.

You have proven yourself to be quite adept at responding in kind to perceived insults, but I'm wondering how you reconcile that attitude with the following scriptural injunctions?

"Do not return evil with evil, or insults with insults." I Peter 3:9

"A soft answer turneth away wrath: but grievous words stir up anger." Proverbs 15:1

"Bless them that curse you, and pray for them which spitefully use you." Luke 6:28

"You have heard that it was said, 'An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth', but I say to you do not resist one who is evil. But if any one strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also." Matthew 5:38-39

[Allheart]

You have proven yourself to be quite adept at responding in kind to perceived insults, but I'm wondering how you reconcile that attitude with the following scriptural injunctions?

Amen OG. And that is all I have been trying to explain or share with DeMaria and I get called a hyprocriate - that I truly don't love God or my fellow man.

I love this post OG -

[De Maria]

You have proven yourself to be quite adept at responding in kind to perceived insults, but I'm wondering how you reconcile that attitude with the following scriptural injunctions?

Quote:
"Do not return evil with evil, or insults with insults." I Peter 3:9

"A soft answer turneth away wrath: but grievous words stir up anger." Proverbs 15:1

"Bless them that curse you, and pray for them which spitefully use you." Luke 6:28

"You have heard that it was said, 'An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth', but I say to you do not resist one who is evil. But if any one strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also." Matthew 5:38-39

Thanks for the question. And its fair. I've wondered about it myself sometimes. In fact, when I first started on the internet, I believed I should not argue with anyone. I would take insult after insult believing this was what Jesus taught. But since my debating took me deeper and deeper into the Scriptures and into knowledge of my faith, I began to notice that neither Jesus, nor St. Paul, nor St. James seemed to understand that teaching to mean that we must become wall flowers.

For instance, Jesus frequently spoke harshly to the Pharisees:
Matthew 23 13 But woe to you scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites;

And St. Paul spoke the same way:
Galatians 3 1 O senseless Galatians,

1 Corinthians 15 36 Senseless man,

And there are many others, but I'm writing in a hurry. Also, St. Louis de Montfort would BEAT UP hecklers when he preached in the center of town.

So, being a Christian does not mean to be a pansy. And those Scriptures, in my opinion, don't mean we should not defend ourselves. What they mean is when a discussion is reduced to insults with no intelligent content, then it is time to stop.

After I discovered this in the Scriptures, I also noticed that the Christian apologists who got more respect, did not permit others to insult them. It appeared that those who permitted others to insult them simply lost everyone's respect.

So I adjusted my thinking. I now go where "they" are. If I believe, that the person is worth talking to, I will take on the insult and fight through it until it is time to shake the dust off my feet. In other words, until I believe that the person is not worth talking to.

After many years of debating, I've come to believe this is the most effective course. There is such a thing as righteous anger.

I hope that answers your question.

Sincerely,

De Maria

[ordinaryguy]

I hope that answers your question.

Yes, I suppose it does. It doesn't surprise me. You claim to revere the Bible but manage to rationalize attitudes that are diametrically opposed to the plain meaning of what it actually says. If it's respect you want, that's not the way to get it, at least from me.

And that is all I have been trying to explain or share with DeMaria and I get called a hyprocriate - that I truly don't love God or my fellow man.

I have the utmost respect for your religious beliefs and attitudes. It's interesting to me that both you and De Maria are Catholic, but you come across as different as night and day in your interactions with others on matters of faith. It confirms my belief that the essence of religion has little or nothing to do with church affiliation or doctrine.

[N0help4u]

To me a mature Christian is one that has learned not to waiver in their faith.
They have learned not to be arrogant or playing the Holy Spirit like whatever they say is the gospel truth. They are not wanting to run the church function like their way is THE way and pouting, gossiping or criticizing others that do not go along with THEIR way. Often many Christians THINK they are doing God's will when in actuality they are sabotaging it.
A mature Christian has learned to discern things and how to be in synchronicity and peace with where they are suppose to be in life. They have a real freedom apart from religious squabbles.
I am blessed to know quite a few Christians that I can say I believe they are very real Christians.

Some well known by some Christians are
Bill Wilson Home
Phil keaggy p h i l k e a g g y . c o m
B. E. Taylor B.E. Taylor - The Official Site

This is a really good CD set
- MetroMinistries.org

[Credendovidis]

... Credo is just ticked off ... He is super smart, which automatically makes him hard to get along with...

I am not ticked off at all. I only found your earlier comments rather simplistic and invalid. I even added a post to bring in some humor...
Which - lacking any reaction - you clearly seem to have failed to cope with !
All that is correct in your post is that I am indeed smart. Is that a problem for you ?

:D :rolleyes: :p ;) :D

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[De Maria]

Yes, I suppose it does. It doesn't surprise me. You claim to revere the Bible but manage to rationalize attitudes that are diametrically opposed to the plain meaning of what it actually says.

I revere the entire Bible. I don't pick certain verses which I then twist to change the meaning of Jesus' message.

If it's respect you want, that's not the way to get it, at least from me.

Actually, of the non-Christians on this forum, you're about the most pleasant with whom to hold a discussion. So, as long as you keep a respectful tone in your messages, I don't care if you respect me or my beliefs.

But if you begin to get insulting, you know what to expect in return.

Bye.

[Credendovidis]

I revere the entire Bible. I don't pick and choose certain verses which I then twist to change the meaning of Jesus' message.

That is not true and honest : most of your posts are full of twisting words, sentences, and complete meanings of what was posted earlier.

Also your posts do not reflect the goal and intention of the Christian mission : "go forth and spread the word" (not only in your words, but specially in your attitude and deeds). You and your attitude on this board have already done more harm to Christianity than an army of angry atheists ever could achieve - if they wanted to do so.

:D

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[ordinaryguy]

But if you begin to get insulting, you know what to expect in return.

Yes, I would expect you to disregard the teaching of both Jesus and St. Peter and return insults for insults.

[Allheart]

But if you begin to get insulting, you know what to expect in return.

Bye.

DeMaria,

This is exactly what I was trying to communicate to you. How does the above demonstrate a loving follower of Christ.

Any good that may be in your messages, is lost with this type of thinking.

I did try to respond to your last PM, but when I hit send, it blinked away. I took it as the will of God. I truly did.

There should be no harshness amongst those who believe or even amongst those who don't believe.

You may think I trade the praise of man for being in favor in God's eyes, but as I told you in my PM back to you, that could not be further from the truth. In life, my thoughts, heart,
And viewpoints, usually make me stand alone and it's where I choose to stay, for I would not change what I believe in my heart for anyone's approval, except Gods.

I mean this with all sincerity, I wish you great joy and pray that love touches your heart
And surrounds you.

May you see the good in people as well as areas that may need improvement and share God's word and love, in a way that will bring others to Him.

And may you no longer judge me wrongly and may I not do the same of you.

Allheart.

[wildandblue]

Wow I can't believe there are 57 answers to this question... where was I? Well if you guys expect courteous people on the internet, don't hold your breath, what's that John the Baptist used to say, the people nice to look at are in the palaces not in the wilderness-- I guess you have to pick your battles, or like they say when arguing about a subject, "what some people don't know, you can't tell them." so it does no good to get riled up. Credendovis I haven't forgotten you I'm just a bit busy right now a newborn grandchild just got dropped off in our laps and I'm head cook and bottle washer right now. But lucky for you I can feed infants and pray at the same time!

[Fr_Chuck]

Not sure where all these ideas of a Christian not getting upset and not having their say comes from. For example we are to correct people when they are not correct and if they still don't correct we are to drag them in front of witnesses to correct them and then latter in front of the entire church latter. Also there are many things, that non informed or non christians often don't understand, such as turning the other cheek, which is an insult to the person, since it shows we are expecting them to back hand , which is a disgrace, since we are saying that they are the type of person who would backhand us, which is a sign of disgrace. Even to wiping our shoes off at their door which is a sign of disgust with them.

And we are even told not to let the sun go down on our anger, it does not tell us not to get angry even, only not to go to bed angry.

And of course the early disciples would go out and preach even against government orders since they knew they had to do Gods will over any order not to preach here or there.

And I remember Christ calling the temple priests a pit of vipers and throwing out the money lenders.

So I think people need to get the silly idea of christians just being abused and not standing up and holding ground, since it is only the non christian that wants to weaken the faith of the chistian

[Credendovidis]

I'm just a bit busy right now a newborn grandchild just got dropped off in our laps

Congrats to you and the rest of the family. I hope everything is OK.

;)
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