[TheSavage]

Ahh the victim is back -- [teasing ] -- really as you know we can not "help" you. All we can do is help you see.

Kindly come back someday and let us know how your doing -- Savage [And heck it wouldn't hurt and might help you to stick around and help others.]

[chuff]

I am joining the vowels movement.

[wontbez]

I think everyone here is being very blunt with you and maybe they're right. I was in a similar position not to long ago, only I'm a younger guy and she was the older married women, the only difference in my situation was that she used me for sex but also led me on by telling me that we were going to be together and get married... she just kept needing "more time" but when the time came to make a choice she stabbed me in the back and riped my heart out. (yes this happens to guys too) I know, I'm a big wuss :)

In your case you have a huge advantage over the situation, you know exactly how he feels and you know how he expects you to feel. I really can't stand the "you knew he was married so you should be fine" What a load of BS, I know when he tells you that it makes you mad and I feel for you. Love doesn't know any boundaries, it's not controlled by someone's status, you can only control your actions, not your feelings.

I wish I could tell you that he will come around and you were meant to be together and it's all going to work out, but I think you already know that it just doesn't work that way. I know how hard it is, I know how lonely the nights can be and I know trying to sort everything out in your head just confuses the situation even more. Maybe I'm totally off the mark and you're much more stronger then I am... not very hard ;) But I'm moving on and little by little the thoughts of the past go away and are replaced with hopes for the future. I believe there are good things waiting ahead for you, go get them!

[Gem07]

You need to break up with this man. You've wasted 2 1/2 years of your life in a dead-end situation. Cut your losses now and move on. It will be very hard. It's going to hurt and you're going to want to call him and get back together (as has happened a dozen times before). You'll have to stay strong and tell yourself that he's already wasted 2 1/2 years of your life, you won't let him waste another minute.

I had an affair with a married coworker for 19 months a long time ago. I too never received Christmas/birthday gifts from him. Affairs are wrong morally and ethically and that's why you're suffering. You can't do something bad and expect to feel good. Like attracts like. You're attracting poor behavior because you're conducting yourself in a poor manner.

I unglued myself from that affair because I gathered together the strength and did it. I knew that if he loved me as he said he did, he'd get a divorce and propose to me. Never happened. Not even close. He realized that my door was now closed to him, and he was gone in a heartbeat. I changed my number, returned his love letters and artwork, dealt with the pain.

But here's the kicker... I find myself in a similar situation again (this time it's an emotional affair vs. a physical one). If you've got low self-esteem and low self-confidence, you're going to keep treating yourself like garbage. The universe will keep throwing the same lessons your way until you get it together. If the foundation is a crumbled, rotting mess, the building will soon collapse. You've got to fix your foundation (your moral fiber). Please understand that I'm not judging you, but I've been through this exact situation. And I'm dealing with various problems right now and am in the process of resolving them.

So, although you may dump him and move on, there are serious underlying issues as to why you're doing this to yourself. For some reason, you don't feel like you're good enough. You have an inner voice telling you that you don't deserve anything better than a man who ignores you on your birthday. Why is this so?

[lilliandiana]

I may very well have low self-esteem. I sure do feel I am not good enough--and I know what happened in my childhood that triggers those feelings. But I didn't get into this relationship with M WANTING to get kicked around. At the time I was divorced and I had 2 kids at home, who stayed with their Dad every other weekend, and it killed me when they were gone. M and I were friends, and our younger kids were the same age. We used to talk and talk about how hard it was letting go of them (they were both 6 when we started working here). Over the years we told each other our whole life story. I knew about his grandmother, his folks, his sister and her kids, his kids as they grew up---but never his wife. I don't even know her name. She was never mentioned as anything but "they": They went shopping; they went to church. I wasn't curious. He had his world and I had mine with the boys. He said he tried to leave his marriage once--she got pregnant with his son and he stayed. He loves that boy with the same intensity I love my youngest son. He told me he didn't even love his daughters as much as he loved that boy. I suspect that he wrapped up in the boy to withstand the fallout from his attempt to leave the marriage. And heck, I am divorced. I KNOW what a horror a divorce can be under the best of circumstances. I wouldn't wish it on anybody.
It's just that in the 2 years and 8months, I have lost my heart completely to this guy. I went from a distraction on the weekends with a sexy, handsome friend, to wanting to be with this guy all the time. And he is not a mean, cruel man. He remembered my birthday; he just didn't buy me a present. He says he is just not used to saying I love you; he doesn't say it much. He says that while he supposes his wife loves him; he does not love her. He said, "I love my kids" and yesterday for the first time EVER he said, "And I love you."
It's just so hard. I know what the whole thing looks like and I am scared to death he is playing me, but I can't seem to make myself believe that 100%. If he was, wouldn't he have lied all along about her, the marriage and loving me? He has never said I love you without being asked before in all this time. I want to believe him.
It's so odd--this type of thing in one's life-- because one day everything seems painted thundercloud grey; the next day daffodil yellow. One day, I think I can handle the situation; the next I am an idiot.

[wap]

This guy is such an a**!! He sounds extremely selfish, and really immature to be honest. He is not good for your or his wife.

[lilliandiana]

How do you post a picture? Is it under signature?

[wap]

Go to profile and edit picture, then browse to pick the one you want ;)

[lilliandiana]

Got it! Thanks

[Gem07]

Lilliandiana, I can feel that you're at that threshold of pain. You're ready to make a change. I picture you as the baby bird ready to jump out of the nest. But you're scared. Two and a half years of comfort, companionship, and regular sex are about to go bye-bye.

I know you and the married guy have shared a lot: memories, laughs, moments. But it's all meaningless. Whispers in the wind. Here one moment and then gone. There's nothing solid with him. You're hidden behind closed doors. If you tried to infringe upon his life with his wife, you'd find out very quickly who he values more. You already know it in your heart. It's painful. It hurts to know that the person you love cannot or will not love you back the way you ache to be loved. He kind of likes you on some level, yes, but this is not love. He's a ghost. The relationship is nothing. His wife is #1. She always will be. I guarantee it. He may complain about this or that, but he married her, he had kids with her, he's built a life with her, everyone knows he's with her. He wants her by his side always. All his actions show it.

You need to start seeing this man for exactly who he is. Please try to get out of the lovestruck fog you're in and see the truth. He's a liar. He's a cheater. He has no respect for women. He has no respect for marriage. He doesn't know how to raise children (being a good father means treating the kids' mother well). He's hurting his wife and he's hurting you. And he doesn't care. As long as you don't give him any trouble, he'll keep you around. That could go on for years and years. Your entire life could easily slip away with this joker.

Loneliness pushed you into his grasp; let honor and integrity let you out. Do what is right. You have children. You're a role model. Set a good example. Show your children how a good woman lives her life.

[Parrothead101]

Oh my gosh, sweetie, your story is my story. My eyes were as big as a soccer ball, I'm sure, when I read your story. I'm from Indiana and having an affair with my boss for 2 years. Buys me nothing, takes me no where and I am in love with the man. I beat myself up everyday wondering how I can be in love with him. Stupid? I know I deserve better and more and I know all of the things they say about married men, just can't seem to pull myself away from this man. I love the way he walks, talks, and has sex. Never thought I would meet my "match". He is it. I can tell he has feelings for me but he won't say anything.

[momincali]

This guy is seriously having his cake and eating it too. All that you know about him, his family, his wife, his "story" is through his perspective. Get it? He's not going to tell you all of it and make himself seem like a real turd. You really think he would be honest enough and man enough to say, "well, things aren't good between me and my wife because I'm selfish, or I don't treat her well, or....blank". No, he won't tell you that. Remember the old saying, there are 3 sides to every story, his, hers and the truth...

He say's he's not in love with his wife although he thinks she is in love with him. That tells me that she may be kind and loving to him but he's bored with the whole thing. Bored! You want to cater to that? Bored! I can guarantee you that your time will come, where he will become bored with you too and move on to the next exciting thing. He's a selfish jerk. What kind of "man" says to his mistress that he wants Pamela Anderson's boob for a birthday gift? The kind that doesn't respect her or cares what she thinks or if she's hurt by it, or worse, doesn't think she has the dignity to walk away from treatment like that.

Don't assist him in hurting his family. He doesn't love his daughters as much as he loves his son?. sounds like he doesn't really like women, period. Not that he's gay, no affection for them, he just doesn't love women. He loves to use them, but he doesn't love them. He's playing you, and he's playing his family, big time, but I guess you already know that and as long as it scratches the loneliness itch it's acceptable to you. Sad really. It shouldn't be that way.

[lilliandiana]

I have wondered about the not liking women part because he has serious issues with his mother. His Dad was an over the road trucker and his Mom worked full-time. He was raised by his grandmother. Both his parents forgot his birthday last week, but it was his mom he said there was"no excuse for".
I do want y'all to know that I do NOT sit at home by the phone waiting for the opportunity to help him hurt his family. My kids are grown, but I have other interests; I have a very demanding job and I teach a class at the local college 1 night a week. I am working on a novel--I have finished 14 chapters and I am refinishing pieces of furniture and working on my house now that my last child is now living elsewhere.
I am not LIVING until the day I can be with him because I have a life. There's just this big hole when he is not in my life---and not just because he is not there. Because I don't want to be duped and dumped and double-whammied--not having him and not having the truth.

[gypsy456]

There is an awful lot of "he" and "him" in your sentences...

You sound like a talented woman, move on... where one door closes another one will open...

Never settle for less... you owe it to yourself.


Good luck

[Parrothead101]

Forgot to add something when I posted yesterday... I bought the most amazing book and have read and re-read it for encouragement and strength to get past my own torrid affair with my boss. It is called "Why men love es". This book has been the light at the end of my tunnel. Seriously, I pick it apart everyday and realize now I have been nothing but a doormat to the man I am having sex with, but well, NO MORE. Everyday I try to implement the things I have read in this book with my daily life at work. Things are slowly coming around for me with him and I do feel that deep down inside I am slowly pulling myself away from him. This has taken time and I do believe I deserve better and more. I am an awesome woman, was just extremely weak and lonely at the time. Starting to see him for the "so called man" he claims to be. I will continue to be nice to him but I know he has seen a change in me. Good luck sweetie, WE can do it!!

[momincali]

Lilli and Parrothead- After reading both of your posts, I can see that you are in a lose-lose situation. You lose, the families of these men lose, it's not good any way you slice it. Affection and the desire to have someone love you and spend time with you (and even some money) is a strong pull, but it should never be strong enough to draw you and keep you into a bad and immoral sitaution.

Ladies, I can appreciate that you're taking steps to grow and leave these men behind, but pulling away slowly probably isn't the best method. I think that every moment that you spend by their side is good for them, but not you and certainly not their family. When you've made the decision that you will not participate in crap like this, you walk away. When you step on dog poop, do you keep the shoe on and wipe it away slowly? Probably not. You take the shoe off as quick as your hands will allow and hose it off outside before bringing the shoe inside and throwing it in your washer, right?? Why would we act so quickly to be rid of a stench in our shoe, yet we are indecisive about saving our dignity, our soul? If we found a cancer in our bodies, we'd have a surgeon remove it immediately before it spreads and does more damage to our bodies, to avoid irreparable harm.

There's another book, "10 Stupid Things Women Do to Mess Up their Lives" by Laura Schlessinger. I know she can be blunt and harsh, but sometimes, that's what we need to get our attention. The shame is that a lot of times, we won't read these books because we're afraid of seeing ourselves in them, yet that is what we desperately need.

I say we, because I'm a woman, not because I've ever cheated on my husband or even contemplated it. I think I chose my husband very wisely. I met lots of available men who were attractive to me, were fun, handsome, good listeners, yet they were missing something and I ended up paying the price for it. After so many heartbreaks, I made the choice to choose! Yep, choose my man. That meant that just cause he was flirting or was interested in me and showing me attention, that I didn't have to go out with him. I held out until I found one who was worthy in every way that was important to me. He had to have all the qualities that I thought were essential. Would he make a good partner, friend, father?? Did he share in my ethics, morals and values? Did he believe that commitment, honesty and communication was key in a relationship? Were our differences going to enhance each other or cause problems later? It took a while, but when I found him, that was it. It didn't hurt that he was gorgeous to boot, but that's just icing on the cake!


Choose. We choose our clothes more carefully than we choose our men! What's up with that? Choose. Choose to walk away and not look back, no matter the sob story or promises. These men are not trustworthy and don't really care how sad or depressed or undignified these affairs make you feel. Don't mess with married men, ever, for any reason. If they are unhappy, if their wife doesn't understand them, if they only married her cause she was pregnant or stayed cause she got pregnant, WHATEVER the scenario, it doesn't change the fact that they are MARRIED. It doesn't mean it's just a piece of paper. The decision to sign that paper, to make holy vows in front of God and others makes that paper very different and very special. If they chose not to be men of their word and signature, then that is a huge character flaw.

[ggmagoo]

Never really understand why women put themselves in these situations. At what point in our lives do we say “Mommy when I grow up I want to be some mans concubine". Please forgive me for being harsh. You say you are in love with him. In love with what? Do you love him for cheating on his wife? Would you like it if you were the wife being cheated on? Do you love him for treating you like a whore. Do you love him because he buys his wife presents instead of getting you his mistress something? I hope you are developing a new sense of respect for yourself by ending this affair. This man you are falling in love with has reduced you to the level of a personal call girl that doesn’t get paid.

Sorry to be so blunt….but I think tuff love/advice was needed here.

[momincali]

ggmagoo is right on! At what point in our lives would any sane woman want to be the hidden secret, the reason for lying to their wives?? The sad part is women in this position may say, well, that's not my entire life, but it becomes that way. It takes a lot of work to keep a relationship like that going because everything has to be done discreetly. He has to sneak out, he can't spend a lot of money, sometimes any money, or she will be curious where that money is going, the mistress has a low spot on the totem pole. I don't understand what is so attractive about a relationship like that. I mean, that's kind of like buying a car that looks good but you can't drive it just anywhere, isn't dependable and will almost certainly be repossesed at some given time without notice.

[gypsy456]

ggmagoo is right on! At what point in our lives would any sane woman want to be the hidden secret, the reason for lying to their wives??? The sad part is women in this position may say, well, that's not my entire life, but it becomes that way. It takes alot of work to keep a relationship like that going because everything has to be done discreetly. He has to sneak out, he can't spend alot of money, sometimes any money, or she will be curious where that money is going, the mistress has a low spot on the totem pole. I don't understand what is so attractive about a relationship like that. I mean, that's kinda like buying a car that looks good but you can't drive it just anywhere, isn't dependable and will almost certainly be repossesed at some given time without notice.

Look... let's be honest: no woman would like to be in a situation like this. It is not what we have in mind for ourselves. Sometimes however, some women do. That does not make them a bad person, it's a very unfortunate choice that has been made. Because, having said this... it is about making choices. When somebody falls in love with a man who is married/engaged, it is about making a choice... Things do not "happen".. it's a choice to continue in a relationship like that.

As for the girl who asked for advice... this is her choice.
It takes a lot of strength to walk out of a situation as she described.
When you love yourself enough you will only allow people in your life who treat you with respect...

[saraispiel19]

No good-tsk tsk. mαrried people αre big no no's.. αnd it's wrong for α reαson- look whαt you got into. Obviously your just his go-to girl αnd he's not gonnα treαt you like αnything speciαl becαuse your bαsicαlly α piece for him whenever he needs it. Get out of the relαtionship it's tαking you no where.

Omgsh I feel so bαd for his wife.