[MrMadDog]

Hi folks,

The application here is to get power to a landscape area (4'x4') for decorative lighting purposes. The overall landscape design calls for up to five of these areas to be lit - at some point. The furthest one from the house will be 300 ft. I'm looking for least expensive recommendations on:

1. what size, type, and depth of conduit
2. what size and type of line
3. configuration of the drops - i.e. is it possible to ultimately support 5 in a daisy-chain fashion off one line from the house

Thanks,
MMD

[Handyman2007]

You may use type UF cable for direct burial... you don't need to use conduit... 300 feet? Use #12 Type UF.

[buzzman]

See also notes from "Handyman2007". The depth is usually a foot and a half (18") if installed around foot traffic only. Go three feet (36") if installed across a vehicular traffic area. You can install up to 12 outlets (lights in this case) off one 15Amp branch circuit legally. Five is more than legal.

[Washington1]

You can install up to 12 outlets (lights in this case) off one 15Amp branch circuit legally. Five is more than legal.

Buzzman,
If I'm reading you correctly. You are saying we aren't allowed to have more than 12 lighting outlets on a 15A circuit. Can you explain this, with code references and maybe even a sample calculation?

[buzzman]

Buzzman,
If I'm reading you correctly. You are saying we aren't allowed to have more than 12 lighting outlets on a 15A circuit. Can you explain this, with code references and maybe even a sample calculation?

This is based on CEC (Canadian Electrical Code). I can only help you based on this. The US can be very different, and it can change from state to state due to the dynamics of its geographics (Cold/Dry to Hot/Humid). There are specific hazards that can exist due to these climatic conditions. You will have to check with your local codes, but at least you know what to ask and how to ask it. To explain myself, 12 total outlets mean a combination of either lights receptacles or both in ONE 15A branch circuit. Switches to don't count as an outlet, because it is not a load (Only in Canada).

[Washington1]

The OP is from Canada?

How can you tell?

[stanfortyman]

Buzz, a better way of putting it would be "In MY AREA you can install up to 12 outlets (lights in this case) off of one 15Amp branch circuit legally.", as opposed to just stating this as fact without explanation. This is a very local code and is NOT very common.


Also, WHY would you say conduit is a waste of time and money?? Have you EVER seen rocky soil conditions??
There are places I wouldn't hesitate to use direct burial cable, and other's I wouldn't even think about it.

[buzzman]

Buzz, a better way of putting it would be "In MY AREA you can install up to 12 outlets (lights in this case) off of one 15Amp branch circuit legally.", as opposed to just stating this as fact without explanation. This is a very local code and is NOT very common.


Also, WHY would you say conduit is a waste of time and money???? Have you EVER seen rocky soil conditions???
There are places I wouldn't hesitate to use direct burial cable, and other's I wouldn't even think about it.

In that case I would use teck cable... Armored cable...

[Washington1]

In that case I would use teck cable......Armored cable...

Seeing that most have no idea what TECK cable is (at least I believe most from the US--I being from the US, and had to give this same information to another person from Canada), here is a brief presentation--compliments of Thomas and Betts:

Teck Cable Specifications
The Teck cable name is derived from one of
the first users, the Teck-Hughes Gold Mines
in Kirkland Lake, Ontario. Teck 90 is the CSA
Type designation. The trade designation is
Armored Cable.
Teck cables with a working potential up to 5,000
volts are manufactured in accordance with CSA
Standard C22.2 No. 131. The cables are provided
with a bare ground conductor and an optional
outer jacket. Depending on the phase conductor
insulation, the cables are designated as Teck
90 (X-LINK) when the insulation is cross-linked
polyethylene, and Teck 90 (EP) when it is ethylene
propylene. Both cable types are rated for 90°C
service (dry location) and 75° C (wet locations).
When Teck cable is suitable for installation at a
temperature down to minus 40° C, it is marked
“Teck 90 (X-LINK) Minus 40” or “Teck 90 (EP)
Minus 40”.
Teck cable with a working potential over 5,000
volts is manufactured in accordance with IPCEA
standards and is certified by CSA. Cables are
provided with or without ground wire, as required.
Teck cable with an outer jacket may be used
for exposed or concealed wiring in wet or dry
locations, indoors and outdoors, and in
corrosive environments. It is suitable for use in
ventilated, non-ventilated and ladder type cable
troughs, and in ventilated flexible cableways in
both dry and wet locations. It is also suitable for
direct earth burial and for Class II, Division 2; and
Class III, Divisions 1 and 2 hazardous locations,
as per the Canadian Electrical Code.
Flexibility and ease of installation are key
features of Teck cable. The absence of dead air
space within the cable increases heat transfer
and minimizes condensation. The overall
protective covering provides good environmental
protection.
Bend radii for permanent training during installation
usually varies between 7 to 12 times the cable
diameter, depending on the construction of the
cable and the manufacturer's recommendations.
Larger radii bends are required for other conditions.
Electrical Code Requirements
Section 12-3024 of the Canadian Electrical Code
requires that the terminating fittings used must
provide adequate strain relief to terminal connections
and ensure electrical continuity without
injury to the nonmetallic sheath. Continuity is
mandatory whether the armour is used as
a grounding conductor. Except for dry locations
that are free from corrosive atmosphere, the
nonmetallic jacket cannot be stripped back to
the point where the armour is exposed after
installation.
Where single conductor cables carrying 200 amps
or more enter metal boxes through separate
openings, certain precautions are required
to prevent overheating of the metal by induction.
Use of nonferrous or nonmetallic box fittings,
locknuts and bushings and installation of nonmagnetic
panel inserts is suggested in the code.
Please refer to the following for further details
and complete information:
1. CEC Section 12, Wiring Methods; CEC
Section 4, Conductors
2. CSA C22.2 No. 131 and 131S (Supplement
#1), Safety Standard for Type Teck Cable
3. CSA C22.2 No. 18, Safety Standards for
Outlet Boxes, Conduit Boxes and Fittings

[mr500]

:eek:

[buzzman]

Seeing that most have no idea what TECK cable is (at least I believe most from the US--I being from the US, and had to give this same information to another person from Canada), here is a brief presentation--compliments of Thomas and Betts:

Teck Cable Specifications
The Teck cable name is derived from one of
the first users, the Teck-Hughes Gold Mines
in Kirkland Lake, Ontario. Teck 90 is the CSA
Type designation. The trade designation is
Armored Cable.
Teck cables with a working potential up to 5,000
volts are manufactured in accordance with CSA
Standard C22.2 No. 131. The cables are provided
with a bare ground conductor and an optional
outer jacket. Depending on the phase conductor
insulation, the cables are designated as Teck
90 (X-LINK) when the insulation is cross-linked
polyethylene, and Teck 90 (EP) when it is ethylene
propylene. Both cable types are rated for 90°C
service (dry location) and 75° C (wet locations).
When Teck cable is suitable for installation at a
temperature down to minus 40° C, it is marked
“Teck 90 (X-LINK) Minus 40” or “Teck 90 (EP)
Minus 40”.
Teck cable with a working potential over 5,000
volts is manufactured in accordance with IPCEA
standards and is certified by CSA. Cables are
provided with or without ground wire, as required.
Teck cable with an outer jacket may be used
for exposed or concealed wiring in wet or dry
locations, indoors and outdoors, and in
corrosive environments. It is suitable for use in
ventilated, non-ventilated and ladder type cable
troughs, and in ventilated flexible cableways in
both dry and wet locations. It is also suitable for
direct earth burial and for Class II, Division 2; and
Class III, Divisions 1 and 2 hazardous locations,
as per the Canadian Electrical Code.
Flexibility and ease of installation are key
features of Teck cable. The absence of dead air
space within the cable increases heat transfer
and minimizes condensation. The overall
protective covering provides good environmental
protection.
Bend radii for permanent training during installation
usually varies between 7 to 12 times the cable
diameter, depending on the construction of the
cable and the manufacturer's recommendations.
Larger radii bends are required for other conditions.
Electrical Code Requirements
Section 12-3024 of the Canadian Electrical Code
requires that the terminating fittings used must
provide adequate strain relief to terminal connections
and ensure electrical continuity without
injury to the nonmetallic sheath. Continuity is
mandatory whether or not the armour is used as
a grounding conductor. Except for dry locations
that are free from corrosive atmosphere, the
nonmetallic jacket cannot be stripped back to
the point where the armour is exposed after
installation.
Where single conductor cables carrying 200 amps
or more enter metal boxes through separate
openings, certain precautions are required
to prevent overheating of the metal by induction.
Use of nonferrous or nonmetallic box fittings,
locknuts and bushings and installation of nonmagnetic
panel inserts is suggested in the code.
Please refer to the following for further details
and complete information:
1. CEC Section 12, Wiring Methods; CEC
Section 4, Conductors
2. CSA C22.2 No. 131 and 131S (Supplement
#1), Safety Standard for Type Teck Cable
3. CSA C22.2 No. 18, Safety Standards for
Outlet Boxes, Conduit Boxes and Fittings

I was just going to say "google it", get some loving and go to bed... but you win... or did you? LOL..