[lovemyangel]

Before my son was born, his father suggested that we not go through the courts for child support and instead work out an amount between the two of us. I had my doubts as to whether he would actually come through with the money each month, but I decided to give it a chance seeing as he gets paid under the table and it would be hard for a court to determine what he should have to pay.

Needless to say, my son is now 8 months old and I have only received a few hundred dollars in total. I am 20 years old and putting myself through college; I can no longer afford to do this on my own. My son deserves so much more love and support than his father is currently giving him. But whether a court can award my son a fair amount of money, I would still rather it be a small and consistent court ordered amount than a small and infrequent amount of his father's choice.

A few months ago, I started researching how a court in NY would go about a case like this. The NY government website basically said that when there is no actual proof of what someone's income is, then they will try to determine how much money they make by looking at their assets, bank statements, etc.

Ever since then I have been documenting everything and anything that I feel a court could work off. I have printed out e-mails from my son's father where he talks about the "job" that he has and how much money he makes there (he claims it is about $300-$700/night, depending on what day it is.) I have also printed blogs that he has written in which he describes how he wastes thousands of dollars gambling, as well as on all of the services (clubs, spas, bars, shopping, etc.) that the casinos have to offer.

My question is, is this enough for a judge to make a decision with?

He did actually work at an insurance company this past December for about two weeks, but he was fired after he just left the state for a few weeks without notifying anyone. Someone told me that a judge might look at what he was making there and determine an amount based on that salary, the logic there being that he is capable of making that amount of money. Is this true at all?

He does not own a home or pay rent because he still lives with his mother. However, he manages to make payments of over $600/month on his fancy ole' Escalade and pays his cell phone bill. I'm assuming a judge will want to know how he manages to pay for these things and yet declares no income.

I'm not sure that his bank statements would be of help as he is constantly walking around with large amounts of cash. Other than the one time I saw him make a car payment via checking account (and that was maybe a year ago) I'm not sure he uses it.

Also, what kind of trouble, if any, can my ex get into when I bring all of this up? He used to make most of his income by playing poker at reputable casinos. However, within the past year he has turned to dealing for and playing in poker games at local underground clubs here in NY. There have been quite a few raids lately in our area (Long Island) and he was actually arrested for it a few months back. He always manages to find a new place to "work" at though.

It's not so much that I would feel bad for getting him into any trouble, though I probably would feel bad. It is more so that I am sort of afraid of how angry he might get at me for exposing his illegal activities in court. I know that no matter what, my son deserves everything that I am trying to give him, but I just don't want to fuel the anger that his father already has for me.

I'm sorry this was so long-winded.. just trying to give all the details.

[CatherinenDaniel]

I am so sorry to hear your predicament! I have no advice on whether the court would award you child support on the documentation you can provide, as I live in Australia. But I do hope so - I absolutely agree he should take some responsibility and provide for his son on a consistent and regular basis. Power to you for making a better life for your son and doing your best to provide a loving home!

I wish you all the luck in the world!

[millec]

My son's father makes his money illegally. We went to court last week for the first time. Before going to court I consulted with my case worker. I told her how he makes his money and about how much he makes in a week, a few thousand. I got proof from the Department of Corrections showing how many times he has been arrested while doing his illegal "job". She stated that unless he came straight out and said "I sell drugs for a living and I make a few thousand a week" they could not use that against him. And of course no one is going to appear in court, in front of a judge, and admit to selling drugs. So he appeared as if he was unemployed. The judge based his payments on minimum wage, what he's capable of making. He was ordered to pay me in a month what he makes in a few minutes. It's not fair but unfortunately that's how the law works.

[Squiffy]

I wouldn't imagine the blogs and emails would stand up in court. He could easily say that he was just making it up, there is no proof in there, just someone boasting. I would go to court and see what they order him to pay, a small amount is better than no amount, then ask him for extra if your son needs certain things, any worthy father should be willing to pay for things there child needs. You have nothing to lose.

[Gotwheels]

Hi,
You have a problem. First: if he is making money illegally it is hard to track how much he makes unless he's a dimwit who deposits all of it. Second: if he earns it by gambling, that is not illegal if he's a player or dealer, it's not like running the game. If you get him busted at where he works, the reality is the owners orf the game are going to be in more trouble than him and that may be a bigger problem for you than him being mad. A judge may take into consideration that he earns money under the table, but then again he would have to base this on what you can proof beyond a shadow of a doubt. You will not be able to get any bank or financial statements without a court order or laywer. And as far as cars, home or any thing he looks like he owns. Well I am currently a car dealer and I sell vehicles everyday to people who don't work and own a lot of things but it's all under someone else's name. These people deal in cash and it's very hard to track anything. What I suggest is that you go to social services and go on welfare. Let the state collect from him in what ever way they have to and don't worry what he says or thinks.

[millec]

Well I am currently a car dealer and i sell vehicles everyday to people who don't work and own a lot of things but it's all under someone elses name. These people deal in cash and it's very hard to track anything.

That's true, my son's father won a settlement that slipped right through the fingers of child support recovery. Instead of paying his child support he paid cash for a Escalade and had it put in his mother's name and she says it's her truck but everyone knows that its not. He knew what he was doing. When someone shows up at a dealership wanting to pay cash for a $50,000 car questions are not asked. If the truck was in his name child support recovery could put a lien on it but since its not they can't touch it. Your baby's father may be like mine and have family & friends that are willing to lie for him by claiming the items as being theirs.

[lovemyangel]

Thanks to everyone for your input. I just want to clarify a few things..

I agree that my ex would never stand up in front of a judge and flat out admit that he makes his money under the table. However, I don't think that he could get away with claiming that he is unemployed. How could that be, when he makes monthly car payments of $600? And by the way, that car is in fact registered in his name.

Also, about two months ago my ex and I opened up a joint checking account for the purpose of him being able to get child support to me easily (we live about 45 minutes from each other.) When he was asked what he does for a living he said the he was self-employed. I have a copy of that paperwork.. how could he then say to a judge that he is unemployed?

Squiffy - Not only do I have the blogs and e-mails, but he once brought me to the club that he used to work at and I watched everything go on for about an hour. He wanted to show off how he made his living. That exact club was shut down a few months later and it is on record that he was arrested that night and spent a few days in jail until he was bailed out. Witnessing it first hand has to stand for something, right?

Gotwheels - What he is doing is absolutely 100% illegal. It's not as if he and a few of his friends play innocent games of Texas Hold 'Em. In his club, the "house" takes a percentage of the winnings. That one aspect is what makes it illegal. And I do agree that the owner would be in more trouble than he, but he still is working for a place that is running the game illegally, which is why he was put in jail for it.

That is my main concern though. If I tell this to a judge and his club gets shut down again, then there is going to be more than just him who is angry with me. And I have met plenty of these guys. Some of them are truly nice people but when it comes down to it, you just don't want to mess with things like this or the people who own these clubs.

As I said though, I do know that the car is in his name and I witnessed him working at one of these clubs firsthand, so I know that he is not just pretending when he writes about it. So I do think I have a few things in my favor. The question is whether I want to anger the other people who work there.. and I don't.

It's an awful situation because I want my son to be able to live the way that he deserves to, but I have to keep our safety in mind as well.

I will definitely be consulting with a lawyer about my concerns.