[paraclete]

It seems that with one stroke a departing Secretary of Defense can sink an important alliance with the thought that it just isn't relevant any more, after all if the US isn't there to shoulder the effort it just won't happen
NATO at the crossroads after Gates speech - UK news by mail.com
The US has been guilty of arrogance but this goes beyond

[excon]

Hello clete:

Arrogance?? We've been bankrolling the EU's defense ever since the big one. We've called upon them rarely, but when we do, it's time for them to step up to the plate.

excon

[paraclete]

Hello clete:

Arrogance??? We've been bankrolling the EU's defense ever since the big one. We've called upon them rarely, but when we do, it's time for them to step up to the plate.

excon

Ex no one suggests all members shouldn't contribute equally should any one member be treatened, but there is no threat, just adventurism. Even the US has backed away after the initial action in Libya and Afghanistan, well that is a conflicit which the US allowed to develop and now expects NATO to help out. It's too bad the US can't foot the bill this time but the problem is of their own making. The EU is trying to solve its own financial problems and if the US finds NATO too expensive it should say so.

Seriously Bin Laden is gone, which had nothing to do with NATO action, so Afghanistan should be reevaluated and Libya, very commendable that civilians should be defended, the first time anyone gave a damn but if you want people to help out you don't spit in their face, and what about Syria, just as big a problem there but who cares?

[tomder55]

He questions if the US will have the desire to defend the German Beer Halls in the future.

He has been trying to get NATO to constribute more since he became Sec Def.I agree that it more likely is just another nail in the coffin of the alliance.

But this is also a clarion call to the US. What Europe has done with hopey-changy social policies we seem on a course to repeat.

The reason the Europeans have been able to fund their entitlement culture to the extent they have is because they have not adequately provided for their own defense.

The problem with Gates is the timing of this statement ,coming in his valedictorian address. Why did he wait so long ? I believe it would not have furthered his career if he was outspoken before. Now that he's retiring what has he to lose ?

That isn't leadership. But it is consistent with the President's desire for the US to be in the pack instead of lead.

[TUT317]

That isn't leadership. But it is consistent with the President's desire for the US to be in the pack instead of lead.

Hi Tom,

That's the problem with leadership. "The higher the monkey climbs the tree, the more you see his arse". Old Chinese saying.

Tut

[paraclete]

Hi Tom,

That's the problem with leadership. "The higher the monkey climbs the tree, the more you see his arse". Old Chinese saying.

Tut

Tut, ole boy, that similae just cuts too close to the bone. I don't think BO would like to be thought of as a monkey, but I definitely like the way you think. Now Gates, he is definitely a monkey that swings both ways

[TUT317]

Tut, ole boy, that similae just cuts too close to the bone. I don't think BO would like to be thought of as a monkey, but I definately like the way you think. Now Gates, he is definately a monkey that swings both ways

Thanks Clete for pointing this out.

I can assure everyone that the remark was squarely directed at leadership. Any derogatory remark was unintended. Anyone who know me, knows full well this is not my style.

The analogy did not cross my mind at the time.

If I have offended anyone then I make an unreserved apology.


Tut

[tomder55]

I wonder why it's OK to call Gates a monkey.

[talaniman]

Ex no one suggests all members shouldn't contribute equally should any one member be treatened, but there is no threat, just adventurism. Even the US has backed away after the initial action in Libya and Afghanistan, well that is a conflicit which the US allowed to develop and now expects NATO to help out. It's too bad the US can't foot the bill this time but the problem is of their own making. The EU is trying to solve its own financial problems and if the US finds NATO too expensive it should say so.

Seriously Bin Laden is gone, which had nothing to do with NATO action, so Afghanistan should be reevaluated and Libya, very commendable that civilians should be defended, the first time anyone gave a damn but if you want people to help out you don't spit in their face, and what about Syria, just as big a problem there but who cares?

Nobody spit in anyone's face, just some constructive criticism, heck we get criticized all the time, and told what we should be doing, but we don't take it personally.

Why should we? And we appreciate having such good neighbors to the north, friends and allies, and not those do nothing whining Europeans. And I know Canadians appreciate having such good neighbors, friends, and allies to the south.

So what are the Canadians proposing to do about the Syrians, other than critisizing us for not doing anything about it????

This is your chance to lead, so lead! Lets see what your a$$ looks like, we showed ours already, neighbor.

[paraclete]

I wonder why it's ok to call Gates a monkey.

You can call anyone you like a monkey Tom but since the reference was to leadership, something Gates was very short on I thought he was fair game, where as leadership can only be a reference to one thing in the US, and perhaps it wasn't fair to suggest that BO's ar$e was showing