[inthebox]

Jillean

You are correct, the rational centers of the brain would light up if you believe, or gave much thought to Psalm 23 as they tested. And it would not light up if it wasn't worth your time.


It would be interesting to see if you followed a group of people that did not have any strong religious or faith based ties, and at the beginning do the same Dr Azari study, and Pet scan their brains. They should all have very similar responses.

If it was feasible, folllow them for say 5 years, and hopefully/ perhaps some will be "saved," --- compare their pet scan before and after, with those who did not change.


If there was a significant change in the pet scan, in these rational centers of the brain and excluding any confounding factors, before and after saving faith, and between the control group and those that now believed then this would be evidence of this:

2 Corinthians 5: 17 " the old has gone and the new has come."

[Credendovidis]

Had you read my post more carefully, you would realize by "it" I mean a "god button" in the brain, hence the semi-colon in the sentence, not a period.

INCORRECT : the point of your post should not "to be realized": it should be CLEAR to all!
Posting of words like "it" without stating clearly what you mean with that deliberately lacks the clarity of what you really state.
.

Ok, my turn, INCORRECT! Not that this was the original intent of my post but... how can you, someone who says you can't believe disagree with this?

Your original point was : "It certainly stands to confirm my opinion that people are born with faith or not".
.
My reaction to that was :
Incorrect. The relevant part of the question should be faith in what? Not if people are born with faith - without clearly specifying what sort of faith is meant, as my replies to your questions 2, 3, and 4 already clearly showed. The selection into having faith in "whatever" results from upbringing, education, and (in some cases even) brainwashing, and not from some build-in failure or preset of human self-confidence.
.
Let I be very clear about your reaction :
INCORRECT : The relevant part of your question should for sure have been "faith in what"? And not if people are born with faith or not, without specifying faith in what. As you stated it, it was like "it rains or it does not rain". Totally useless as point of consideration.
.

It is my opinion people are born with the capacity of faith or not. One is born with the ability to entrust in a supernatural being, or they are not. I was not born with this ability.

That is YOUR OPINION. Fine. But as you lack any support for that opinion I see that you now added the word "capacity". What a clincher! In that case we are also all born with the "capacity" to become mass-murderers, rapists, thieves, child molesters, etc. etc. etc. What a clincher!
.

Like you have stated in other threads, "I cannot believe, it just doesn't work - goes against every fiber of my being".

But that does not confirm that I was BORN with that "capacity". It could just as well result from experiences during growing up, i.e. by influences from outside! So YOUR OPINION is still based on quicksand!
.

However, there are people for whom it seems to come naturally, people who feel incomplete, even unsafe without belief in a supernatural being. Those people, it is my opinion, must have been born with that capacity to "let go" (read: faith). Those who cannot "let go", were not. So in sum, people are born with faith or not.

That may SEEM so. But is it so? And again : you meant "faith in a deity". I wonder why you have such a problem to be open and clear about that.
:rolleyes:

[jillianleab]

INCORRECT : the point of your post should not "to be realized": it should be CLEAR to all!
Posting of words like "it" without stating clearly what you mean with that deliberately lacks the clarity of what you really state.

It appears it was only unclear to you, who did not read the post carefully enough to see the punctuation. So again, I will direct you to my sig.

Your original point was : "It certainly stands to confirm my opinion that people are born with faith or not".

Actually, my original point in making the post was to inform others about the study being conducted, this remark was secondary, and was not intended to be the subject of the thread. You've just taken it and run with it. So please, do not tell me what my original point was, when I'm the one who made the post!

That is YOUR OPINION. Fine. But as you lack any support for that opinion I see that you now added the word "capacity". What a clincher! In that case we are also all born with the "capacity" to become mass-murderers, rapists, thieves, child molesters, etc. etc. etc. What a clincher!

Again, since the statement was not the original point of the post, I saw no reason to elaborate on the statement and explain it. Once you cherry-picked it from the post, I explained it. I did not add the word "capacity" just for you, and in fact, there are other places on this board where I have posted the very same thing (should you require proof that I'm not changing my words just for you). So no, no clincher.

But that does not confirm that I was BORN with that "capacity". It could just as well result from experiences during growing up, i.e. by influences from outside! So YOUR OPINION is still based on quicksand!

And did I not acknowledge that outside influence could have an effect? I think I did. And did I ever say this was something other than MY OPINION. I did not. You don't like my opinion, fine, but just because you don't agree with it doesn't mean I can't have it, and doesn't mean it is "based on quicksand". Again, this study could confirm my opinion, if there is a "god spot" found in the brain of every human and if it is determined there is a biological/evolutionary background to religion.

That may SEEM so. But is it so? And again : you meant "faith in a deity". I wonder why you have such a problem to be open and clear about that.
:rolleyes:

I wonder why you have such a problem with reading comprehension? Of course I meant faith in a deity, which is why I said, "one is born with the capacity to entrust in a supernatural being" and "... unsafe without the belief in a supernatural being." Does it not "count" since I didn't say "deity"?

Is there a reason you are so angry? A reason you are trying to pick a fight here? I mean, I actually stuck to your demand someone say something is what they BELIEVE (my opinion) and here you are b!tching and moaning because I expressed my opinion, and called it my opinion.

[Credendovidis]

Is there a reason you are so angry? A reason you are trying to pick a fight here?

I am not angry. Nor do I try to pick a fight. That are just empty allegations to get out of this all.
If we are unclear about the true meaning of what we post, what is the use of posting here in the first place?
That is why I zoomed in on your posts in this topic, as I found them to be deliberately unclear.
As far as your own position to religion is concerned, that is your prerogative to maintain and support.
But do that at least CLEARLY and HONESTLY !
:rolleyes:

[jillianleab]

I have deceived no one, and it's not my fault or my problem that you had difficulty understanding my post. You appear to be the only one having such difficulties; that says more about you than it does me.

And again, my position on religion was not the topic of this post; when you made it the topic I explained it clearly and honestly.

If my posts don't live up to your "standards", feel free to add me to your "ignore" list.

[N0help4u]

I do not understand Crede's saying it has to be an 'in what' because if an athest COULD believe in an 'in what' then why don't they believe in anything?
You either believe in something or you don't believe in anything so I think that makes the 'in what' totally irrelevant so I have to agree with Jillianleab on this one.

As far as the predetermined I believe we have free will BUT that God knew what we were going to choose before the beginning of time because he knows the beginning to the end. I can understand what you are saying about either you have the ability or it is not there.

[jillianleab]

Thanks, N0help; I'm glad I make sense to someone! :D

[Credendovidis]

If my posts don't live up to your "standards", feel free to add me to your "ignore" list.

I have no reason to do that. But I may add your name to my private ignoramus list here.
:D

[rodandy12]

You either believe in something or you don't believe in anything so I think that makes the 'in what' totally irrelevant so I have to agree with Jillianleab on this one.

?? Can't you believe in some things and not in others? I believe in God. I just don't believe in religion.

As far as the predetermined I believe we have free will BUT that God knew what we were going to choose before the beginning of time because he knows the beginning to the end. I can understand what you are saying about either you have the ability or it is not there.

How about a God that set this world in motion and then got interested in other things? He/she gave us some ideas of the way things ought to go and left us alone. He/she came back a couple of thousand years later and basically said... You got it wrong, here's a course correction. We didn't listen (very well) to that information, either. Maybe at this point, we're on our own.

[Credendovidis]

... You either believe in something or you don't believe in anything ...

What is that for logic? Of course on a religious discussion board that "something" refers to a belief in religion. But that does not say that a person who lacks a belief in religion has no other beliefs...
:rolleyes:

[jillianleab]

I have no reason to do that. But I may add your name to my private ignoramus list here.
:D

Golly, you have such a knack for being polite... what with the name-calling and all...

[Credendovidis]

Golly, you have such a knack for being polite... what with the name-calling and all...

Name calling? I just replied to your reaction in an approach and with text similar to yours!
;)

[jillianleab]

By calling me ignorant?

Whatever. This thread needs to get back on topic before it gets closed. Anything more you want to say to me on the matter can be addressed in PM.

[Credendovidis]

By calling me ignorant?

Whatever. This thread needs to get back on topic before it gets closed. Anything more you want to say to me on the matter can be addressed in PM.

Why did you suggest that I call you ignorant?
And I agree : Anything more you want to say to me on the matter can be addressed in PM.
;)

[addaddadd]

That's Good, those people who dought in the bible and even in God can think.

[firmbeliever]

Jill,

I can't seem to link to the site at the moment and would love to know if there has been an update.
Thanks

[N0help4u]

But I may add your name to my private ignoramus list here.

Golly, you have such a knack for being polite... what with the name-calling and all..

Why did you suggest that I call you ignorant?

Ummm, I suppose you are considering adding her name to the ignoramus list because you believe she is NOT ignorant?

Sometimes (often) your logic astounds me Credo! And I do not mean that in a flattering way.

P.S. I am honored to know I must be on the top end of your ignoramus list.
(Still haven't answered me about why you find it so intriguing to have 10 yrs of little old me on a hard disc).

[N0help4u]

What is that for logic? Of course on a religious discussion board that "something" refers to a belief in religion. But that does not say that a person who lacks a belief in religion has no other beliefs ....
:rolleyes:

You are the one who always insists you do not believe in anything.:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Maybe going sailing, or love for your wife, but in the spiritual realm sense NO you have never claimed to have a belief in anything and have argued with Sassy continuously over that fact.

[jillianleab]

FB, I haven't seen/heard any updates either. It's apparently a three-year project, so we may not see any updates until the research is over.

[Credendovidis]

You are the one who always insists you do not believe in anything

Not true. I do not believe in deities. So I have no religious beliefs. It is as simple as that.

But of course I have beliefs in other fields.
I believe that Obama makes a better President than the George Bush copy version 3.
I believe that social behavior is more important than capitalistic wealth accumulation.
I believe that it is wrong to allow anyone to kill other people against their will.
I believe that our - mainly western - human greed has most probably caused an onset to total extinction of almost all (if not all) life on earth.

:rolleyes:

·