[jlisenbe]

The costs have been borne by private insurance, donors, volunteers and government. Only you would deprive these children of receiving government aid because you don't approve your tax dollars being spent for it. I estimate the actual tax cost to you is one-ten-thousandth of one cent.

You presume to speak for others. You sure as hell don't speak for me. I support my tax money being spent to keep these children alive.

I sure hope I don't speak for you or anyone else. Never have claimed to, so your imagination is at work on that point. I don't "presume" to speak for anyone but me on this board.

One cent per American would be about 3 million dollars. One ten thousandth of that would be only 300 dollars, so sorry, but I don't think you have the slightest idea of what you're talking about. The Boston Globe article said Medicaid is picking up the cost. Now if you feel that strongly about it, are you one of those donors or volunteers, or are you just in favor of forcing the American government to go out and borrow this money, thus going even further into debt in order to support non-citizens?

If someone feels strongly about a charitable cause, I suggest they support it out of their own resources, or even encourage others (like me) to do so, but I would not suggest they try to feel noble and superior by forcing others to support it.

And besides all of that, it would appear you might have your story wrong to begin with.

https://www.breitbart.com/immigratio...s-with-cancer/

[Athos]

One cent per American would be about 3 million dollars. One ten thousandth of that would be only 300 dollars,

Ok, so make it one ten-billionth - it was hyperbole, I thought you guys liked hyperbole.

are you just in favor of forcing the American government to go out and borrow this money, thus going even further into debt in order to support non-citizens?

Unbelievable! You just don't get it, do you? I bet you'd pay to put the Ten Commandments on the government buildings but God forbid you'd pay a penny to save the lives of non-citizen children.

but I would not suggest they try to feel noble and superior by forcing others to support it.

Are you projecting how you feel?

https://www.breitbart.com/immigratio...s-with-cancer/

Breitbart?? You gotta be kidding.

[jlisenbe]

Unbelievable! You just don't get it, do you? I bet you'd pay to put the Ten Commandments on the government buildings but God forbid you'd pay a penny to save the lives of non-citizen children.

Actually I get it quite well. It seems to be the typical liberal attitude. "Hey! Look at me! I'm a great and noble guy because I am forcing others to pay for my charitable impulses, and with borrowed money no less!"

You didn't answer my question about your own personal involvement as a donor or volunteer, so I guess we can all assume that your contribution to this, other than words, is zero.

I get that you are advocating for the use of fed funding for a particular cause. I understand that, but you can just lose the smug attitude of superiority you love to carry around. I am all in favor of helping sick kids, but a government 23 trillion dollars in debt that cannot balance a budget should figure out how all of this is going to be paid for and stop pretending that the money will just fall off a tree like ripe apples. Do I consider you noble for supporting that which costs you nothing??? Absolutely not.

Would I contribute to put the Ten Commandments on the wall of my local schools? You better believe I would. I guess that's how you and I are different.

[Athos]

Time for you to stop the liberal this liberal that. You're sounding like a broken record.

You may assume what you want. It means nothing to me.

As usual, you get it wrong - again! I am not advocating the use of federal funding for a cause. I am advocating saving the lives of children by letting them stay in this country where they receive life-saving treatment unavailable to them if Trump gets his way and deports them. Wow - you sure have a one-track mind!

I see where your new charge is "noble" instead of "hatred". An odd pairing.

I'm curious. Would you make Christianity the official religion?

[jlisenbe]

As usual, you get it wrong - again! I am not advocating the use of federal funding for a cause. I am advocating saving the lives of children by letting them stay in this country where they receive life-saving treatment unavailable to them if Trump gets his way and deports them. Wow - you sure have a one-track mind!

You can't have it both ways. Either this involves fed funding or it doesn't. And, of course, it does, so I did not have it wrong. And I will mention again that you are apparently contributing not a single red cent to the cause, so you are all in for that which costs you nothing other than that one ten-thousandth of one cent you mentioned earlier. I don't mean that to be ugly or hateful. I'm sure you have a genuine concern for those children, just like I have a genuine concern for having a government that has some idea of how to pay for what it obligates itself to do, or a genuine concern for charging the taxpayer for med care for people who are not citizens since I don't know how we can do that for some and not for the millions of others who need it.

I see where your new charge is "noble" instead of "hatred". An odd pairing.

Refresh my memory. Where have I accused you of hatred?

I'm curious. Would you make Christianity the official religion?

No. That would be unconstitutional. Putting the Ten Commandments on the walls of schools, as it is in the chamber of the Supreme Court and where it was for many decades, would not establish a national Christian religion since the Ten Commandments pertain to three major world religions and never mentions the name of Jesus. It would, however, begin to impress upon our children that there is a moral code in this world that everyone should recognize.

[Athos]

You can't have it both ways. Either this involves fed funding or it doesn't

The point is - saving children's lives is primary. Sad that you can't see that.

And I will mention again that you are apparently contributing not a single red cent to the cause,

You don't have the slightest idea what I contribute to anything. Just another of your ad hominems.

Refresh my memory. Where have I accused you of hatred?

Refresh your own memory. Whenever I criticized Trump, you rarely replied directly to the criticism, you just accused me of hatred of Trump.

No. That would be unconstitutional....{skip}....... the Ten Commandments pertain to three major world religions and never mentions the name of Jesus. It would, however, begin to impress upon our children that there is a moral code in this world that everyone should recognize.

You say Christianity as official religion would be unconstitutional, yet the Ten Commandments on school walls promotes three religions and is not unconstitutional. Is it three religions that makes it ok? What about a code with 4 religions? Just asking. I grant you some Commandments are moral in nature but what about the ones that aren't? Like remembering the Sabbath. Not worshiping "other" gods?

Would you object to other moral codes being posted on school walls? The moral sections of the Code of Hammurabi, for example? The moral codes of Buddhism?

[jlisenbe]

You don't have the slightest idea what I contribute to anything. Just another of your ad hominems.

I asked you earlier if you had contributed. I took your non-response to be a "no", but feel free to correct that misunderstanding.

Refresh your own memory. Whenever I criticized Trump, you rarely replied directly to the criticism, you just accused me of hatred of Trump.

I don't recall saying that, but if I did it was improper.

You say Christianity as official religion would be unconstitutional, yet the Ten Commandments on school walls promotes three religions and is not unconstitutional. Is it three religions that makes it ok? What about a code with 4 religions? Just asking. I grant you some Commandments are moral in nature but what about the ones that aren't? Like remembering the Sabbath. Not worshiping "other" gods?

The Constitution disallows the feds establishing a religion. The recognition of a moral code associated with three religions would rather plainly not do that. As to the first three commandments, if you do away with those, you lose all moral authority to make the final seven authoritative. They become simply "good ideas" or "good suggestions", but with no way to make them indisputable.

Would you object to other moral codes being posted on school walls? The moral sections of the Code of Hammurabi, for example? The moral codes of Buddhism?

Yes. This country does not have a Buddhist heritage.

[Athos]

Yes. This country does not have a Buddhist heritage.

Doesn't have an Islam heritage, either.

[talaniman]

If you wanted to impress a moral code on your children then why have a guy on TV everyday who lies cheats, steals, and spews hate based on race and anything else he can find, and is cruel to men, women, and children who cannot fight back or help themselves as they ask for mercy, and is fiscally irresponsible and secretive as all get out about his personal finances, while openly enriching himself and his friends?

You think kids are that dumb? You tell them to follow God and Jesus, while you follow a dufus? Come on man.

[jlisenbe]

If you wanted to impress a moral code on your children then why have a guy on TV everyday who lies cheats, steals, and spews hate based on race and anything else he can find, and is cruel to men, women, and children who cannot fight back or help themselves as they ask for mercy, and is fiscally irresponsible and secretive as all get out about his personal finances, while openly enriching himself and his friends?

You think kids are that dumb? You tell them to follow God and Jesus, while you follow a dufus? Come on man.

As I have said many times, I voted for Trump simply because the alternative was unthinkable. He is disappointing in many ways, but if you don't want to have a person like that in office, then try nominating someone not along the lines of BC, HC, or Obama. Thankfully he does not actively support the continued slaughter of hundreds of thousands of unborn children a year. You plead for those children in hospitals, and rightly so, and yet have no concern whatsoever with children who are slaughtered in the womb by the MILLIONS, in many cases only days prior to birth.

[talaniman]

Looks like when we have coffee, the weather will be the topic of discussion.

[jlisenbe]

Looks like when we have coffee, the weather will be the topic of discussion.

I thought about you a couple of hours ago. I was outside working and it was actually PLEASANT out there. Low humidity and a breeze made it all pretty nice. 92 degrees but didn't feel that hot.

[Athos]

I asked you earlier if you had contributed. I took your non-response to be a "no", but feel free to correct that misunderstanding.

You ask a question and there is no response. So you take that to mean "no". Lacking an answer, you simply invent one to your liking. No wonder you have no friends.

I don't recall saying that, but if I did it was improper.

Yeah, you recall.

The recognition of a moral code associated with three religions would rather plainly not do that

It's more than "recognition". It's supporting religion by posting its tenets on a government school bulding.

As to the first three commandments, if you do away with those, you lose all moral authority to make the final seven authoritative.

Good grief! So without the first three commandments, there is no moral code? Where in the world did you get that from? Your Bible? Did you know that the flood story has its origin in The Epic of Gilgamesh?

I noted previously to your comment that "this country has no Buddhist heritage" that this country has no Islamic heritage either, yet you include Islam as one of the supporting religions for the Ten Commandments in schools. You're confused.

[jlisenbe]

You ask a question and there is no response. So you take that to mean "no". Lacking an answer, you simply invent one to your liking. No wonder you have no friends.

You have whined and complained about it so much, I don't care anymore if you gave or not. If you want to say what you did, then fine. Otherwise try whining about something else.

It's more than "recognition". It's supporting religion by posting its tenets on a government school bulding.

So? There is no prohibition on supporting the general concept of religion.

Good grief! So without the first three commandments, there is no moral code? Where in the world did you get that from?

Without God there are no moral absolutes. It all just comes down to opinion.

Did you know that the flood story has its origin in The Epic of Gilgamesh?

There is no evidence whatsoever of that. It is all conjecture. The Epic of Gilgamesh is significantly different from the Genesis account (i.e. the boat is cube-shaped, built in only seven days, flood lasts only seven days) other than it accounts for a world wide flood. If Genesis is a copy of that, it is a fantastically inaccurate one.

[Athos]

I don't care anymore if you gave or not.

For someone who doesn't care, you sure whine about it.

So? There is no prohibition on supporting the general concept of religion.

There is a prohibition against supporting a particular religion by posting Ten Commandments ON A GOVERNMENT BUILDING. This is really basic stuff. You brought it up so I assumed you at least were familiar with the basics.

Without God there are no moral absolutes. It all just comes down to opinion.

Therefore, your statement "Without God, there are no moral absolutes", is just your opinion.

All questions of God come down to opinion. The color of the desk I'm typing on can ultimately come down to the existence of God. (That's a philosophical question you need not worry about). The answer can only be an opinion.

It is all conjecture. The Epic of Gilgamesh is significantly different from the Genesis account (i.e. the boat is cube-shaped, built in only seven days, flood lasts only seven days) other than it accounts for a world wide flood. If Genesis is a copy of that, it is a fantastically inaccurate one.

Of course, it's conjecture. What else could it be? The authors were not sitting side by side. Read Gilgamesh, and you will find the similarities striking. To claim it is "fantastically inaccurate" reveals you have not read it. Scholars from both traditions agree on seeing it as the source of several stories in Genesis. But we need not argue the point here. You can see for yourself by a cursory check on the internet.

[jlisenbe]

For someone who doesn't care, you sure whine about it.

Imitation is the ultimate flattery.

There is a prohibition against supporting a particular religion by posting Ten Commandments ON A GOVERNMENT BUILDING. This is really basic stuff. You brought it up so I assumed you at least were familiar with the basics.

We've just discussed that posting the Ten Commandments does not support a particular religion. But even at that, how do you explain the Ten Commandments being inscribed in the Supreme Court chambers?

Therefore, your statement "Without God, there are no moral absolutes", is just your opinion.

All questions of God come down to opinion. The color of the desk I'm typing on can ultimately come down to the existence of God. (That's a philosophical question you need not worry about). The answer can only be an opinion.

Well, at least you are willing to admit that you consider morality to be purely subjective. You can consider actions to be illegal, but not really immoral. No wonder you support abortion.

Of course, it's conjecture. What else could it be? The authors were not sitting side by side. Read Gilgamesh, and you will find the similarities striking. To claim it is "fantastically inaccurate" reveals you have not read it. Scholars from both traditions agree on seeing it as the source of several stories in Genesis. But we need not argue the point here. You can see for yourself by a cursory check on the internet.

It would be very helpful if you would read and actually absorb posts, such as stuff like the seven day flood and the cube-shaped boat built in only seven days. Those are fantastically different details, and there are many others.

[talaniman]

There was morality before the bible and stories of ancient man before the ones that wrote or practiced Christianity, and Islam, or Judaism. Why do artificial differences discount one for the other?

[jlisenbe]

There was morality before the bible and stories of ancient man before the ones that wrote or practiced Christianity, and Islam, or Judaism. Why do artificial differences discount one for the other?

I'm not sure what you're asking.

[talaniman]

Can you be moral not belonging to your religion? (Or any for that matter)

[Wondergirl]

Can you be moral not belonging to your religion? (Or any for that matter)

Yes! Romans 2:15 ([The Gentiles] show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them.)