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    DYC's Avatar
    DYC Posts: 2, Reputation: 1
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    #1

    Sep 11, 2015, 03:42 PM
    Proven fraudulent documentation for personal gain at co-worker's expense
    In a competitive sales environment, if one co-worker has repeatedly lied with proven fraudulent documentation, in a attempt to gain financially at a co-worker's expense, would this typically be egregious enough for termination of the deceptive employee?

    Thank you
    smoothy's Avatar
    smoothy Posts: 25,495, Reputation: 2853
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    #2

    Sep 11, 2015, 03:52 PM
    Not in most places if they are a far bigger earner for the company than the other person.

    THe guy who brings in $50 million a year in revenue is far more valuable than the person who brings in only $100 thousand

    Its up the company to decide what it and isn't.

    Best answer you are going to get because you were exceptionally vague with what happened exactly. Meaning we have to make a lot of assumptions.
    joypulv's Avatar
    joypulv Posts: 21,593, Reputation: 2941
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    #3

    Sep 11, 2015, 03:54 PM
    It's tempting to say yes, of course.
    BUT
    Hypotheticals don't translate well to a yes or no answer.
    All details needed to even start to guess.
    You are anonymous here.

    If a co-worker has does this terrible deed over and over, I for one am puzzled as to why the other worker hasn't taken all the proof he or she has to management.
    If the fear is that the person might remain on the job, that's a risk anyone has to take. People don't always get fired. For one thing, they might be a relative, lover, or friend of someone much higher up in the company.
    Life and work are unfair.
    catonsville's Avatar
    catonsville Posts: 894, Reputation: 91
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    #4

    Sep 11, 2015, 04:02 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by joypulv View Post
    It's tempting to say yes, of course.
    BUT
    Hypotheticals don't translate well to a yes or no answer.
    All details needed to even start to guess.
    You are anonymous here.

    If a co-worker has does this terrible deed over and over, I for one am puzzled as to why the other worker hasn't taken all the proof he or she has to management.
    If the fear is that the person might remain on the job, that's a risk anyone has to take. People don't always get fired. For one thing, they might be a relative, lover, or friend of someone much higher up in the company.
    Life and work are unfair.
    This can also be applied to "Whistle Blowers" and Politics.. It doesn't always end well.
    smoothy's Avatar
    smoothy Posts: 25,495, Reputation: 2853
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    #5

    Sep 11, 2015, 04:05 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by catonsville View Post
    This can also be applied to "Whistle Blowers" and Politics.. It doesn't always end well.
    Exactly... the word Malcontent or back stabber comes up in hushed conversations... deserved or not... promotions don't happen... raises are reduced or eliminated... seen it happen at more than one job. Even when the person might have been morally justified.
    catonsville's Avatar
    catonsville Posts: 894, Reputation: 91
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    #6

    Sep 11, 2015, 04:11 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by smoothy View Post
    Exactly... the word Malcontent or back stabber comes up in hushed conversations... deserved or not... promotions don't happen... raises are reduced or eliminated... seen it happen at more than one job. Even when the person might have been morally justified.
    Indeed: I could have presented some examples but though better of it. If you get my drift.
    Alty's Avatar
    Alty Posts: 28,318, Reputation: 5972
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    #7

    Sep 11, 2015, 04:15 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by catonsville View Post
    Indeed: I could have presented some examples but though better of it. If you get my drift.
    You could have presented examples? Do you mean on the original post? But you didn't post it.
    DYC's Avatar
    DYC Posts: 2, Reputation: 1
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    #8

    Sep 11, 2015, 04:20 PM
    This is within a very competitive sales environment and the guilty party IS a big producer... defintiely posting some big numbers. But he has been caught more than once falsifying documentation to benefit himself at a co-worker's expense.It has been brought to management's attention and while they do correct any of the "discovered" fraudenlty documentation, they have chalked it up to "immaturity" and they claim to be trying to "convert" the individuals behavior.Very next week, the lies continue from this individual.
    smoothy's Avatar
    smoothy Posts: 25,495, Reputation: 2853
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    #9

    Sep 11, 2015, 04:30 PM
    Whine about this and it IS going to sound like sour grapes to anyone in management.

    Seriously... seen situations similar to this... you are going to end up on the losing end. Because they ARE going to say you are not a team player... and no whistleblower laws or any law is going to protect you from that.

    Best ignore it and work harder on your own numbers. Too many ways this makes you look bad... and you will be who gets hurt worst.

    I'm guessing you don't have a lot of years working. Other people WILL look at you thinking you are after them next. Lose - lose situation for you.

    Seen it happen almost everyplace I've worked. Nobody will trust you even the Management afterwards.

    The real world isn't fair....and having the moral high ground can still cost you your job and reputation. And those two things are more important than being right. You would be surprised how it could follow you in your career. One day you apply for a place....and they notice....someone working there used to work where you did...and they ask them about you....and what they might say gets your resume dumped in the trash.

    I've run into people on the job at customers I used to work with 10 years earlier and 6,000 miles away. More than once.
    joypulv's Avatar
    joypulv Posts: 21,593, Reputation: 2941
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    #10

    Sep 11, 2015, 06:03 PM
    Management isn't going to do anything.
    Time for YOU to get all the others to gang up on this person. Use your wits. Think of something clever.
    Have outside friends and families call and ask for you to buy your product. If he tries to steal their business, play along as long as they can to keep him from earning a commission. When he gets what's going on, say yep, and you'll keep it up.
    That may be a lousy idea. Think of something.
    Fr_Chuck's Avatar
    Fr_Chuck Posts: 81,303, Reputation: 7691
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    #11

    Sep 12, 2015, 05:48 AM
    As it is already obvious, of course a top salesperson will not be terminated for some fraud in contests. They company would most likely fire the lower earning person who complains.

    Welcome to the real world.
    talaniman's Avatar
    talaniman Posts: 54,137, Reputation: 10852
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    #12

    Sep 12, 2015, 05:59 AM
    Hard to tell if your use of the word fraudulent is accurate, but after correcting his fraud he is still the top earner, you better be VERY careful of complaining about him, or management decisions.
    ScottGem's Avatar
    ScottGem Posts: 64,970, Reputation: 6056
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    #13

    Sep 12, 2015, 06:32 AM
    First, since most states are "at will employment" one can be terminated for no reason at all. Second, it seems clear, that as long as this salesman produces at this level, the company will do little about it.

    I'm curious about what this fraudulent documentation is and, more importantly, how it affects the co-worker. I'm gathering that this has nothing to do with his dealing with the customers. The main question I would have is whether this fraud creates a liability for the company.

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