[Ash123]

LADIES!! Feel free to share your stories! You'd be amazed how useful your words may be in educating those that are breaking-up.
This will be a helpful posting for men (and women) to read and reference. Listing your age might be helpful too - as relationships are different - at different stages of life. Thanks!

[valinors_sorrow]

What a good idea, Ash!

I might have agonized over ending it, but I never took one back after we parted because when I left, I left having seen unsurmountable problems. I gave it my all before I left. When I got left, I assumed they did likewise. I separated (very different from breaking up) with a guy for two months but then we reconciled and eventually married. I was in my thirties at the time and am happily married to him to this day.

[Ash123]

Interesting. What is the difference between a Break-up versus Separation?

[valinors_sorrow]

Interesting. What is the difference between a Break-up versus Separation?

Break up = it's over

Separation = mutually agreed to time out over a specific reason(s) for a designated period with a chance at somoeone experiencing something so that when you meet again, it creates a different take on things. The more structured it is, the more likely it is to succeed.

[LBP]

I suppose my question is... How do you know which problems are and are not insurmountable?

[valinors_sorrow]

I suppose my question is... How do you know which problems are and are not insurmountable?

Wow, isn't that the million dollar question! Good one, LBP. Hmmmm, I think the conditions of that are extremely subjective (and rightfully so) and change over time with maturity but here's a stab at your question that may not be exhaustive but only a starting point for more thoughts.

Unwillingness (and it only takes one of the two in the relationship for this to make for insurmountability):

- to recognise a problem (called denial, sadly common and a real show stopper, best to learn early on if one says it's a problem, it's a problem for both too)

- to find a solution (stalling as a way to "solve" worked less and less easily as I got more and more experienced with people and saw how time is really running out. If they wanted to stay lost and confused, well they were going to have to do it without me.)

- and to act on the solution (called careless or dishonest-- take your pick, this one really separates the authentic from the Eddie Haskells).

Unwillingness disguises easily as Incapability too, especially for people who like to think they are a "victim of self" and claim "but I can't..." but that tends to disappear with age (as it relates to maturity, not biological) and if it doesn't I frankly think that indicates a need for professional help. I am reluctant to rush judgement in this area because sometimes there really is no way to know if its genuinely a "can't" rather than a "won't" but I eventually realised it's the same bottom line and deal with it that way. My first marriage was to a man who was constitionally incapable of being honest and it taught many lessons to me, some I may still be learning!

If anything is to be solved its going to takes all three of those.
It took me a while to find them myself and then be able to fairly evaluate myself and others in them too.
And to learn how to negotiate and compromise too --important elements as well.

The number one reason I give up on any relationship (friends included) today is I see that they can't or won't see the problem (the first one on my list here) and so there isn't anything more to say. Sometimes I stay and accommodate what comes with that and sometimes I decide I don't care to live with what comes with that or how limited that will make things for both of us in general and leave. I know enough about how things work to be able to know what comes with what, to a large extent too. I call that discernment and the only way to really gain THAT is to be alert while you experience stuff. Maybe that was what you were asking about all along? LOL No easy answer there.

I hope that was helpful or that you weren't expecting a laundry list of "FATAL FLAWS IN RELATIONSHIPS!!" like you see screaming on magazine covers these days!! LOL

[rol]

<<Women: After you broke up with a guy, what brought you back?>>

Well as for me I've never broken up with one... just the very first guy I kissed lol ;-)

So I am talking now about girls I know and why they wanted to go back,. except in all cases it was too late.
In 2 cases of girls I know where they broke up from long term boyfriend / husband..
First case: the guy begged etc, but then he became aloof about the breakup and decided it was for the best.I believe it was all because of his attitude, the nice guy who suddenly turned cold.
It was at this point of course that the girl decided what a bad idea it was and wanted him back, but too late the guy had moved on...
Good for him

2nd case: married for 10 years and she left him for someone else, after 3 years with the new guy she saw him for what he was... and regretted leaving her stable life... but too late the ex already married again

[Geoffersonairplane]

Break up = it's over

Separation = mutually agreed to time out over a specific reason(s) for a designated period of time with a chance at somoeone experiencing something so that when you meet again, it creates a different take on things. The more structured it is, the more likely it is to succeed.

Very true but I have touched on this before and I think Val has too. Often people fail to identify what is happening is a breakup or a separation and my opinion is that things can get very confusing if either party is not fully aware of which of these two it really is. With a separation like val experiences, both parties need to fully agree on time apart with a possible reconciliation. When someone ends the relationship without these agreed terms, then it is a breakup and most likely over for good. Personally I do think there can be some confusion here and that is where false hope derives from.

[talaniman]

I suppose my question is... How do you know which problems are and are not insurmountable?

This is an excellent question. Often two people in a healthy relationship work together to find a solution that works for them both through honest communication and a commitment to keep them both if not happy satisfied. Less committed relationships don't have the give and take and a problem they should come together and work out, becomes a wedge between them as they lack the commitment, or have no serious thought to move from their position to at least find the common ground by which they can solve any problems, so one or the other has to give in and this creates resentments that carries over into other areas of their lives. The ability to listen is such an important part of good communications that with out it, no dialog can be opened and compromise can be impossible to reach. Maturity probably has as much to do with the level and quality of the communications between couples, but willingness to work together is as much a factor as anything. Between mature couples there are no insurmountable problems, because they already know they will work together to overcome all obstacles to achieve a goal, where as in less healthy setting the frustration and unwillingness to listen and compromise is just to great to overcome because the honest communication has been limited and no solution they can both live with comes between them with disastrous results. Just my thought, and rant for the day.

[valinors_sorrow]

Geoff and Tal -- excellent points/rants plainly put. I think something can be said along the lines of the messier the coming apart/break up the more that indicates this relationship didn't have to begin with all the honesty, communication, compromise and commitment required to support the relationship surviving over the long haul.

Problems are so much easier to fix while still in the relationship. End it and now there are two problems to fix -- ending it and whatever ended it. When you look at it that way, no wonder hardly anyone gets it back together successfully again.

[rol]

The problem is people don't know the difference between a breakup and a separation as usually it's the first time you have been involved in such a thing.

I guess mine was technically a separation for the first while as I was told its not just a break and its not a breakup, but there was no time limit put on it and we did not know what to call it, we even laughed and said we would invent a new word for it, however I guess the word is already out there "Seperation"!! I was told that we could live apart and then rebuild things back together when we find our identities again and he kept reassuring me all would be fine. At that stage when someone is so confused there does not seem much point asking much more as they just do not know. So that is technically what I "thought" we were doing for the first 5 months.