[Ash123]

I began dating a divorcée about a year and a half ago. She was coming off some unusual circumstances. Her boyfriend had contracted cancer when they were dating - and she left nursing school to be at his side until he came back to health. He lived. They got married. They had children and later he cheated on her. He is collecting a trust fund in a year or so. She did not return to nursing school - until now - post divorce. She was married 15 years and has twins, and still maintains close ties to the Ex "for the kids". I was the first man she ever "connected" with (her father was a violent alcoholic, and her husband worked nights and went away on the weekends). I was brought in slowly to meet the kids - and then only as a friend. It was a challenging but steady course and she is beautiful and strong... or at least she was. In the last 3 months she has begun to say that she has always been Somebody's and has never been single. In her already full schedule of parenting and school and fitting in me, she has added teaching fitness classes. Her solution: remove me. She says she would resent me if I didn't let her be single now. The divorce is in many ways still fresh for her... Her Ex is on his 3rd girlfriend and she is still dealing with schedules for custody and child care costs. She broke up with me before the holidays but was so sad she could not (nor could I) make it stick more than a week. Now she is more resolute. It has been a few weeks and we have not communicated in any way. I have granted her this - she says she does not want to feel guilty about not having me on her schedule if she wants to do these things: watch girl movies, hang with friends -including lesbian friends, drink coffee, wine, and sleep in... etc... sort of a self-indulgent/no cares fantasy... amid the days her husband has the kids I guess.
We kissed. Shed a few tears. I gave her the present for her birthday that was in my car and she headed off to school and fitness classes and the girls.

I do miss her.
And wonder if single life may beat all else after 15 years of marriage -
Even if she finally "connected with a man who did not let her down".

Wondering what to say or do - besides nothing.

Thanks.

[kanicky73]

I was quite surprised to see your post. Reason being I thought you were possibly the guy I just broke it off with (until I read it completely) I don't know how to explain it, but I understand where she is coming from. I am going to assume that she is in her 30's because I believe that is when we start to feel this way. We feel the need to be independent and not have the need to "count" on someone even though all you want is to be there for her. The idea of not having to answer to someone for anything, like when she just wants to be alone, or sleep in etc, this is a very nice feeling. I had the very same realization, the guy I was dating was wonderful! Always there for me, good with my kids, respectful towards me, but it wasn't what I needed. I needed to know that after always being "someone" that I could do it on my own. I have never been single, I met my sons father when I was 14 and married him at 19. We divorced and since then I have always been someone's girlfriend. Sometimes we need to know what it feels like to just be "me". Not affiliated or attached to someone. Does that make any sense to you?

[LBP]

She got selfish and you got the crap end of the stick, buddy. People, even good people, tend to focus on themselves first and foremost. It's not personal. She just likes herself more than she likes you.

If it makes you feel better, she probably felt guilty for a little while afterward. But yeah... In all likelihood, it's over. And yes, nothing is the best thing you can do when it comes to her... As for yourself, there's much to do. Don't forget that. Why not become an expert in old movies? Or start writing that book you've always been talking about? The day can be filled in many different ways and the mind, even though its full of tricksey memories, is more than willing to enter into distraction.

And yes, I have long pondered the irony of the fact that if you had done the same thing in the same circumstances, the woman you now pine for would probably hate your guts...

[kanicky73]

What's wrong with being selfish after a marriage of 15 years has ended?

[Ash123]

KANICKY - How long have you been single? And how deply were you two in love? And how hard was it to break up? Interesting...

[rol]

Kanickys case is very common , I've seen it in many cases with girls I know who married early and divorced in 30s or 40s. They need the wild girl, or independent phase, I think every girl has to go through it in her life.

[LBP]

Whats wrong with being selfish after a marriage of 15 years has ended?

Just look at that statement... Is there something wrong with taking a dollar out of the tip jar if you've given every other time you came in for five years of being a loyal customer? Is there something wrong with snapping at someone at work because you've been coming in for who knows how many years, never a sick day but never a compliment either?

Of course it's wrong. Does that mean you weren't justified? Not at all. But you still broke a man's heart FOR YOURSELF. YOu didn't care (overly) or question the impact on his life. Probably, this was because you had to do it... But don't pretend you don't have responsibility here. You chose to start dating him, too...

[Wildcat21]

My advice is to disappear... leave her alone.

I'ver dated few divorcées and for some reaosn they need to date a LOT!!

They don't wangt to maje the same mistakes. They've been to the circus.

I bet $1 million you were WAY too nice to her. WAY too nice.

I have a feeling you were there too much for her - too many calls - too much pressure on her... she has a life and needs time to herslef and her family.

I have a strong feeling gyou've become needy and insecure recentl yas well - you sound like it. Divorced women WILL run from needy and insecure - especially if the yhave kids - they don't need another kid.

Being a 'nice guy' is bad for business. Yiou need to learn to be a 'good guy' whoi has a life away from her. She WAS part of your life - not your life - I bet $1 million you made her your life - she think YUCK!! Too much pressure.

Disappear for a while - ZERO contact - don't call her!!

Yep - she needs a wild girl stage AND a 'nice guy' won't fulfill that.

[Ash123]

Women - if you thought he was perhaps "the one" and you pined for your free period (which she basically what she had since her Ex was never there... ) what would you do?
Would you find a way to extend an olive branch or feelers now and then? Or something else?

[kanicky73]

Ok, your taking being selfish to a whole new level. Stealing and being selfish about how you want your life to go are to completely different things. When I say what's wrong with being selfish it meant to the subject at hand, not everything in my whole life, from stealing because I wanted something kind of selfish. I mean selfish about what is best for you and your kids, selfish about finding out who you really are. Being in a marriage or a relationship makes you the second half of something. I'm not saying that is wrong but it's a completely different feeling to be totally independent. That's the kind of selfish I am talking about. As far a wild girl stage, that wasn't what it was for me. It was just knowing that I can make it on my own and take care of my kids and support them by myself, with no help from anyone. Being in my 30's that was important for me. It makes you feel really crappy to think at this age you can't even financial support yourself without the help of a man. That's not a nice feeling. To answer your question ASH, we started dating 1 month after the end of my 4 1/2 year relationship, he moved way to fast and wanted to do everything for me, we dated for about 5 months.

LBP, you agreed with me but then said that I messed with some guys heart. So am I right to assume that you think people should stay together forever even if they are not happy just so they don't break anyone's heart? I wasn't happy, it wasn't the kind of thing I was looking for. I was upfront from the word go and told him that I wasn't making any promises. So because I didn't feel the same way about him that he felt about me, I should stay with him anyway?? That doesn't make any sense.

[LBP]

Not at all. But you seem to be avoiding the facts of what you did, for whatever reason. I also notice that now this man your referencing has gone from 'wonderful' to clingy.

Look, you broke this guy's heart. He was a rebound, basically? You used him for what you needed at the time. You said you didn't make any promises. I'm sure he didn't look at it that way - for many men, sex is a promise. YOu knew he would become attached - I'm guessing you weren't blind to his personality. You got what you needed and then realized you needed something else. Yes, that's selfish.

Is it wrong? Is it unjustified? NOT AT ALL - you did what you had to do. That's just the way of it. But don't pretend that you had no part in how things ended up. That's just avoiding the weight of your actions.

Out of curiosity, do you currently have any contact with this man? I'm going to go out on a limb and guess no. Be sure to take that to heart, Ash.

[kanicky73]

I really don't think its avoiding the weight of my actions, but people change. Yes when you first meet someone it is what you want, isn't that why people start dating in the first place? But as time goes on your feelings may change. I am not saying that he is not still a wonderful person. He is, and yes we talk. We agreed to be friends. He obviously doesn't want to be my friend. I think in my case I happened to get involved with a guy who flips head over heels for someone in a week. That is not my fault, that is his insecurities. There are a lot of people out there. Lets be real here, I don't believe that you can fall completely in passionate love with someone you have known for a couple months. At least it has never happened that fast for me. And if you know that you're the kind of person who has a pattern of doing just that, then maybe you're the one who needs to be more careful in relationships and not throw all your eggs in one basket after a month. That's all I was trying to say.

[Ash123]

WildCat makes some good points. But I would not want to be with someone if being insensitive or uncaring was required. She wanted desperately "to laugh" when we met - and we did that a lot. But she made laughter close to impossible as she retreated. I make films, so I am unavailable for large chunks of time, so I was hardly all over her, but when I was not editing I certainly put her FIRST - which may have been too much for her.

[LBP]

I don't see how you have once taken responbility for your actions here, kanicky... It sure seems like your coming up with more and more reasons it was his fault. To a large degree, I'm sure it was - but you act as if you had no choice in the matter. I'm sure you felt compelled to do what you did, but there was choice in there. You made the decision that you'd be better off without this guy, just like you chose to start dating him in the first place - it didn't just happen magically. And there's the growing theme that if he'd been 'better,' or whatever, you'd still be going out with him!

And, I mean, you did tell him you loved him at some point, didn't you kanicky?

I wish you the best of luck, Ash. If you've learned anything here I hope it's that you shouldn't worry too much about this sort of thing - it's quite likely simply out of your control. That's part of what giving your heart away entails...

It's important to remember that she didn't do this because she had no choice... As I've stated, she weighed the pros and cons of YOU and chose to be without YOU... For whatever reason.

I'll tell you right now that the advice of people like Wildcat is incredibly valuable...

[Ash123]

I would like to say what's on my mind in a few months to her but I hardly have a pot to piss in, so seems like would do more harm than good... truth be told, I think I was used to get her through her divorce finalizing and as a crutch - and then she became scared once it became too real. Also, since I've never dated a divorcée or a woman who could say she had all she needed:kids, alimony, school - I was no pro on "firefighter rules":Stay 200 feet back! But that too, would eventually end the same way... in confusion. Well, silence it is. It was a great time - until it was detonated. People always stopped us and thought we were a) on our honeymoon or they recognized one of us from TV (we don't act) - makes you gag huh? Me too now... Rock on LBP

[kanicky73]

I think everyone here needs to remember that we all have faults, insecurities, fears and imperfections. We are all only human. I completely agree with every single last word that WildCat said. I don't, however, think its just divorced women that shy away from "needy" guys. I know a lot of women that will break it off because a guy is way to clingy or needy.

[Ash123]

Well, I am definitely not clingy - just present. She's become very selfish...
And I'm glad that she's doing it on her own right now..
She needs to work out her issues. That's number 1. She's going to
A therapist.

[kanicky73]

That's probably the best thing, and maybe you will realize down the road that it is better this way. She has a lot to work through, who knows, maybe she really isn't over the whole divorce thing. I wish you lots of luck Ash!

[Ash123]

I'll need it. And my advice to women in need. Don't ask for help unless you really are ready to accept it.

[Synnen]

I have to stick my little comment in here, even though it may be taken the wrong way:

My advice to men who want to be needed: Don't think you can fix everything that's "wrong" about women. Most of the time we don't even WANT you to. We just want you to listen to us when we're trying to fix ourselves.