Hey everyone. I'm new to the site. Looking forward to sharing our ups and downs together :)

I figured being online is a good place to anonymously discuss problems. I'm a male, 30 and living in Canada.

I've spent all my time since 18 working in the technology sector as a software developer (amongst various other hats). But I can summarize my relationship experience as nilch. It's not that I didn't have any, it's more like I moved around a lot. And changed companies a lot. Which meant my maximum relationships lasted merely a few months. Plus, I was really good at one night stands and keeping multiple girls (who didn't want committed relationships) on the go. I used to take pride in that ;)

Now that you know I was promiscuous, I was not a cheater or a liar. And believe me, I have had my share of confontations!

Where I am at now is a difficult road to travel. One year ago, I began dating a girl who is a lot different then any girl of my past. You'd consider her very plain and pretty with a small town smile. She's shy, and obvoiusly very self conscious. I instantly fell in love with this girl.

Keep in mind, I've never fallen in love before. So I gave this girl my heart, tolder her that. And in return she did the same. We both matched each others love and giving.

She had some major issues with my sexual past. She had "apparently" only had 3 boyfriends before me. The 3 boyfriends each lasted for 2-3 years. With a face like hers, it screamed innocense.

Well like all stories go, there is a twist. A few weeks ago she had left her email open on my laptop. Man I felt like such a jerk. I had no reason to be suspicious. But like the idiot I was, I went snooping.

It wasn't hard, because there was a hotmail folder entitled "My Stuff". Which of course was full of emails from nearly 10 different men. Her 3 prevoius boyfriends had turned into 10 and they were all overlapping.

While dating a man for 3 years, she also slept with numerous other men at the same time. Totally for almost 1 year. One of those men was even married and had a child!

So wow right? Then some of the emails were dated within the first few months of our relationship, but showed no signs of sex.

Well, of course I confronted her. Still feeling like a jerk for sneaking her email. (BTW she doesn't blame me for that). She cried and I cried.. It went on for days. She confronted and confessed her sins to her family and friends.

I believe when she says there was no sexual activity during our relationship. I do honestly believe that. And I do honestly believe she is trying to find out why she was that person. She has been seeing a shrink who has exposed a lot of rooted family issues regarding violence, lying and lack of discipline. Her chubby self esteem issue had affected her judgement and selfworth.

So you see, this girl lives with me now. And she has been doing so much to "understand" her situation and her past. She really knows she is different and has "grown up".

But here is the delimma... While she was lying to me about who she was. Lying to me about what she had done. And additionally lying to her closest family members and friends, etc. I was giving this girl my heart. I was promising her a lifetime of happiness. Singing old 50's love songs to her. "Everyday, it's a getting faster. everyone says go ahead and ask her. Love like yours will surely come my way...".. etc

So now that this month has been hell for us. And she's on her way to becoming a great and better person. I am soooooo damaged and hurt. My past relationship experience says "Get out and find some new pu$$y to bang". What's left of my heart says "Please no more pain!"

And on the flip side, my personal growth, understanding and future expectations says "dude, this girl can be perfect if it works out! Remember the good times? You want those back right" , etc, etc..

Let me say, that there are more good then bad right now... BUT the bad KILLS ME!

So what's the problem? Here we go...

I simply can't see her for who she was. The innocent girl I once knew. Her body looks corrupt to me now. She gave herself away to multiple men at the same time. I read the "love letters" to these men. She said things to these men that she'd never say to me!

I'm programmed to think our sex sucks because she used to "drink" to have sex. And have crazy sex with men when she knew it was wrong and therefore exciting. Our "love sex" practically puts her to sleep. But, the nights when i'm a ravaged beast, she loves it. But I don't always want to be a ravaged beast! I want love! She says she wants to learn to have "love sex".

Man so many problems. So much to type. Those who even got this far, what are you thinking?

Why can't I just forgive her and move forward? I have no clue! I've never forgiven anyone before. I am sort of a perfectionist of sorts too. I also really don't know what the signs are gonna be that everything is okay.

It's like i'm looking for some big flashin sign that says "Okay you're ready to love her again".

I mean, all she friggin wants is me to love her. But I feel if i love her again, that will be like saying "It's okay to be a friggin retard again."

What to do what to do... ho hummmmmm

The real question is: Is she the same person you fell in love with, personality wise, interaction wise, etc. Or has she changed in day to day life? In other words was it just her past that she lied about, or did she put up a façade of who she is?

I think, that if she is sorry for lying and she wasn't lying about who she is as a person, and really honestly loves you and wants to be with you and has no interest in that old stuff you should try to give her a chance.

However, if she is a completely different person than the one you fell in love with, I mean really different, not just that your perceptions of her are different, but does she really act differently... no one would fault you for moving on.

Betrayal is one of the hardest things in life to get over, whether it be in a relationship or anywhere else. The toughest part is understanding why the other person did what they did and whether you can understand that and notch it as a mistake, or if you think that what they did is their character and they are doomed to repeat it.

I know my relationship is going through a similar time right now. My wife is trying to forgive me for lying. I know that what I did was wrong, and I don't know why I could justify what I did when I did it. I know I was scared and fear is a great motivator as they say. I do know that she is safer with me than anyone else. I know that I learned my lesson, and that this mistake will never be made again. It is about whether she can see that and believe it though, it isn't about me. All I can do is show her that that mistake doesn't define me as a person and hope that we pull through.

As for you, I would really suggest some couples therapy, it might really help. It creates a healthy dialogue and allows people to understand one another a lot easier because it is on nuetral ground. I would really look into it.

Another thing you have to ask yourself is what is the worst that could happen? Are the good times you had and the good times you will have worth the possibility of getting hurt again? This is the question I needed to ask myself prior to marrying my wife. She had hurt me badly before, and I looked in myself and said "hey, the fun and love I am experiencing right now is worth it". I knew that I would regret not marrying the woman of my dreams and that would hurt much more than giving it a shot and getting hurt again.

Just my two cents... I hope I helped.

I can't tell you what to do, or how to feel, but can point out how unrealistic expectations, have thrown you for a loop, and now the world you knew is shattered forever. That's a good thing. It is you that has to decide, if you can forgive, and basically accept, what you know now, and cope with those facts, or be forever unable to recover from the truth. Your choice, and it does require an honest, self evaluation on your part. Need help? Then get it. Me, I deal with reality, and cope with my feelings, in a positive mature way. Like talking to my female, and honestly expressing my feelings.

She is very much the same, but better. She gives me more attention. Far more understanding. And the best part is she will speak up for herself. She carried a lot of guilt before, so she wouldn't stand up for herself. I can say that her personality has not changed.

I feel the same way. Why is it so hard for me to trust her again? You can see that I have lots of good things to say about her. It's as if I don't want to "give in" . Like I feel like a fool and my pride is hurt. It's a stupid egotistical reaction, I know. Is there a process I can try or something I can focus on to help convince me that it's okay?

That's a very interesting observation. Thank you for recognizing this. It has been a large part of our conversation and my concern. Her shrink has extracted reasons. She lied because her association of "anger" is violent due to her mother and fathers relationship. She gave her body away to strangers because she has very little self esteem. She wanted to be a tall skinny, blue eyed girl.

Even though I know the "reasons", I feel it's a cop out. I feel that when I "Slept around" it was to get some pu$$y. And I don't want my girl to have the same vision as me. It took a lot of work to convince myself to be with her, and only her. I don't want to imagine that she's going through the same effort.

My heart and faith is with you. Hopefully she can see the conversations you are having with people like me. And knowing that we all have made mistakes. Sometimes other peoples mistakes remind us of our own (as in my case).

Her shrink knows a lot about me now. Knows how I have been helping her with discovering her reasoning. And helped her understand how to look in the mirror and see her true self. I showed her how I work in life. How I examine my position and confidence. And introduced her to theories referenced in "What THe BLeep Do We Know" and "The String Theory" and of course "The Secret". It's perspectives that a lot of us have already known, but teaching it to her has helped a lot.

Her shrink wants to meet with us together. I'm not sure what her intentions are, but this just came about yesterday at their meeting. We will be meeting next week. I'll keep you posted :)

I guess the worst that can happen is I get hurt again. I get embarrassed again. I really don't like the feeling of being hurt because it was hard to wake up, eat or work...

But that makes the most sense seeing it in words. What you just said has helped a lot "What is the worst that can happen"... At least if I "understand" the risks, then I can be aware of it?

I just can't get over the fact that if I "Forgive her", it's like saying "it's okay what you did"...

You're awesome. ^5's dude


we talk a lot . Talk more then anything else. Sometimes good, sometimes bad. My expectations were unrealistic... But that was my reality. She designed it for me and I lived it. You're right, it has been shattered. All there is to do now is take tiny steps?

I am just stuck on that "giving in" part. It just feels like if I "give in" then I'm saying "it's okay, do it again."

I want to use lots of swears when I type to emphasize how much emotion I actually feel. It'd be nice to let it out. Maybe I need to get in a bar fight?

Bar fights are no longer the same now that I live in a bigger city, they involve knives and friends. Small town I'm from was one on one. And u buy the each other a drink after. Maybe it's time to visit my home town ;)

Wow.

You've come to grips with your past. She is in the process of coming to grips with hers. It would be a double standard for you to not allow her that time.

But, wow.

Your ideal has been shattered. Your dreams of an idyllic, innocent relationship with a small town girl are dust. The life you imagined with her is now irrevocably altered. All the things that attracted you to her are now a façade... she's not that "different, sweet innocent." She has a background similar, and actually worse than your own.

But if you can realize that... know that... accept that... then yes, you and she have a shot. No one out here is going to be able to tell you if you are going to be able to do that.

Trust is the foundation of a friendship/relationship/marriage/family/love. Without trust, its just two people with feelings for another simply co-existing in the same space. Without trust, you're not experiencing the true quality of love.

Wow... I'm still grasping for words and/or opinions. I guess, my advice would be to try. Try and see if you can re-trust her. Realizing that she is not the girl that you thought you fell in love with, but she is still the same girl that you fell in love with. (Boy, that was contradictory!) She's not WHAT you fell in love with, but she is WHO you fell in love with. (Did that make it easier to understand... not sure... lol)

You're going to have to really work through this if you feel that its worth working through. Is she wanting to make it work? Or, is this one sided? Has she been completely honest with you about everything? Have you been honest with her about what you're feeling and why?

If not, that's a good first step. Darlin, I wish you all the best... and I do honestly hope it works out for you.

I have been trying to focus on that. I think the hardest part for me is being involved with her process. I wish this resolution happened before me. But then she could have found someone else... I could make her much happier then anyone else on this planet . But I am afraid to tell her that, because I feel like I'm giving in.

Way worse then me. I've slept a lot of girls and done a lot of sexual stuff, but it was ALL through good intentions with honesty up front. I never lied to anyone about my positions. But her background is very disgusting due to the lies. Pornstar-like. Nearly prostitution in how she freely exploited her body to anyone, including married men. It is really dramatically different then what I thought.

If you saw a photo of her, your eyes would shoot out of your head in disbeleif. I look at her and can't even imagine how it happened. Her family was shocked, everyone. Literally, it's the "good girl gone bad" that people write books and movies about. Someone should approach her with a screenplay :P

I realize, and accept because it's truth in front of me. But the issue is I feel like I'll end up being a fool if I ever love anyone again. Not just her, anyone.

I don't know if there are any innocent pure girls out there. I had my chance with many while I was growing up, and I didn't take it. Now MTV has taken everyone's virginity and purity away.

I fear that. What I felt before when she was lying was "true love" . I would sing to her and we'd lie in each others arms and talk about a "Forever kind of love" . I told her I would marry her and she would cry and smile. Everything was so pure and innocent and beautiful. I don't know how she could have lied _that_ bad to me.

She says she lied because she "wanted" to be that person. She wanted to fulfill my dream of having that kind of relationship. And honestly, she was doing a great job at it. Until I had to sneak into her f'n email. :(

Yeah, that's the hard part . I often wonder if I'd date her for who she is and not what she is . Because that question does come up often . I do understand . I need to love the things she does for me . And love the person she wants to be . It's just hard, because it's a new person


I can tell you in confidence that it is a yes . The reason I'm still with her is due to my word. I told her many months ago that I would never leave her unless we both agreed . She will not let me go . I have asked 3 or 4 times . And it has resulted in lots of tears and physically squeezing me . I see the love .I feel the love . She wants to be better . She has been better .

I honestly "know" that she will be better.

But why can't I trust her? Why can't I give her my heart again? Why can't I just move forward?

I'm afraid to look and feel like a fool again . My heart hurt too much when I saw those emails .

I hope it works out too . I just hope she's being honest to herself and to me . I know she's still coming to terms . I don't want to get involved, and find out in 3 years that she changed her mind.

She sends me text messages everyday from work. About loving me. Looking into my eyes . Making breakfast with love . Wanting to lie in bed and hold me all night . Wanting to kiss me for ever . Etc etc..

These are nice messages . She is putting so much effort into this . She cries about losing me daily . She regrets her past .

Man I see the pain . I don't want her to feel this pain anymore .

I just want her to be happy .

But I need to forgive and trust her for that to happen .

I don't know how to forgive.. I've never forgiven someone before.

You need to start over.

Seriously, Hon. You need to actually, physically start over.

You said that she's not the person she was, but is a brand new person. Sadly, you've become something you weren't before either... you weren't jaded before. You were honest about what you were/who you did it with/why you were doing it. That was "upfront-here-i-am-this-is-me"... now, you are the proverbial cartoon"legs-are-spinning-but-not-going-anywhere."

Tell her you need to start your relationship from ground zero. (I don't know if this can/will/could work for you, but it's a thought) Try to start over. You're both new people. If you have any hope for making it work, you're going to have to fall in love with the new people that you've both become.

Her sending all those texts and voice mails, that's great and all, but I think she knows that she has lost her lustre in your eyes. I know you've told her that you're hurt and all, but I think she is seriously realizing that its different.

You both know that you're different. Make the best of it.

(Oh, and yes. There are innocents still out there. Or, there are those girls that have come to terms with their pasts, are honest and upfront about it, and are ready for honest, true, trusting relationships.)

Just a question and I may be way off base here man, but I thought it might be worth asking.

Do you think part of your problem may be thinking that when she was doing all of these things she was being viewed the same way you viewed other woman, as just some p***y? I think you have the same problem I had when I was trying to get over my wife's very permiscuous past. I had always held her on a pedestal and I hated to think that, not me, BUT ANYONE ELSE might view her as anything less than perfect and thought of her as just a piece of a**. Those thoughts, the thoughts of some guy across the bar thinking "I nailed that guys wife f**k it was some fine a**" are what killed me. I was willing to forgive and move on and I didn't think any less of her, because I was comfortable with our relationship, but it was what others "might be thinking and saying" that ate away at me. I think you are worried that not only your view of her being pure and perfect are tarnished, but you are more concerned about how others may view her.

Again, I may be way off base, but I am just speaking from experience.

I really hope you stick with her through this. I think a lot of good comes out of tradgedies like this when all sides are willing to look at the mistakes made and improve there lives so they won't happen again and so thye won't have the feelings that drove them to it in the first place.


And just so your girl knows, she shouldn't feel alone. I know there are a lot of woman and girls out there who give themselves to men as a way to feel better about themselves. My wife admitted that to me as well, and I can't say I fault her for it, as it seems like it makes sense... it just isn't safe or healthy is all.

I wish you guys the best!

You're right . I really do feel that way . There is one particular person that she was cheating on her ex with who is near our life . He's a friend of a friend . And he's already told the stories . And the stories reached me from my friend . He told me 2 months ago as a warning.. "Did you know that your gf was someones midnight last resort bang?"

all i can see is her getting pounded by some f'n retard with dirty pubes and a stinky and she's all "yeah baby yeah". and that sucks . because i'm holding this girl up in front of my friends saying "I LOVE THIS GIRL SHES AMAZING AND I WANT THE WORLD TO KNOW!".. meanwhile some people in the back are snickering saying "yeah right, her pu$$y was at my becon call, anytime, anyday and i didn't even need to work for it"


If I don't fall in love with her again, then I'll never fall in love with anyone again . Because my perspective on the world is damaged .

I'm happy she is trying . If she stopped trying, I would be really upset . And I'd probably regret how I feel right now.. and I would wish I acted differently .

She says she is giving me a lifetime to forgive her, if I am true and honest to her . I am true and honest . Girls from my past have come out of the wood work recently . They've heard the stories of my potential single status . They are eager to come back into my world . And I honestly can't even think of them . I literally want her .

I do like that they're around, they make me feel sexy again . Because after this happened I felt very very very very very awfully disgusting and used . Now I feel sexy again (to others) helps . But I can't even think of those girls in a sexual way .

Well, here is the simplest thing that helped me get over it. And trust me I had to deal with what the feelings you have, but on top of it I had to deal with feeling inadequate because my wife was having one nighter with professional athletes and other guys I would consider much better looking than myself.


What I did was think to myself what I would do if one of these guys were to approach me and say something. Of course my gut told me to knock their teeth out the back of their head, but I knew time would heal those wounds. Instead I decided I would say "Well I have been meaning to find you and say thanks for making me look like a rockstar in the sack...I appreciate it bud." and then let it be.

Your girl and my wife chose us. They chose us to try and make a life with. We obviousley bring something else to the table that is bigger and better than anything else they have encountered.

I know how you feel about other people coming back out of the woodwork because they hear you may be single soon and you not even being able to think about it. It means you are in love. I think maybe if you try to look at it from the aspect that you helped your girl pull through something she was stuck in. You made her feel good enough to replace all those guys with one. And you know what, no matter how many years go by we are going to have those stupid thoughts of our wives and girlfriends with other guys slip into our heads... but you know what?? They deal with the same thing!

All I can tell you is that concentrating on your love for her, and repeating to yourself over and over that everything that has happened in the past has made us who we are and if the past hadn't happened I might not have this beautiful person in front of me right now is probably the only solution. You have to start living for today and enjoying every second of the feelings you have for her. Trust me... life is just so much sweeter when all you do is think positive when things turn negative.

Here are a couple quotes for you:

I myself am made entirely of flaws, stitched together with good intentions.

As a single footstep will not make a path on the earth, so a single thought will not make a pathway in the mind. To make a deep physical path, we walk again and again. To make a deep mental path, we must think over and over the kind of thoughts we wish to dominate our lives.



- No body is perfect bro... no one... everyone has secrets... the difference maker is going to be when those secrets are revealed if you let them affect the truth of what is. Everything she did and has happened, had still happened when you fell in love... you just didn't know about it... so really... what can it possibly affect? Let it settle back to the bottom where it was and can continue to rest peacefully.

I don't have to worry about that . These guys were sleeze .

Yeah, but they didn't have to work for it :P . I know what you mean though . Sometimes it makes me not want to do anything special for her . On the other hand, I feel good by doing special things for her. O well

Yeah, I'm getting that put on a shirt . Pm me your address, I'll send you one

See, now I think you are feeling how my wife is feeling right now. And I think that maybe you and her are more alike. Would I be right in saying that this is the first time you have had your heart broken?

You bet.. big time . Really big time . I've always understood that my girlfriend was trying to protect me from that bit of her past . And she really wanted me to know her as this person . But she didn't know how to do that .

We talked great last night . I didn't tell her about our influential conversation . I think I should . I feel much better today . I actually WANT to make breakfast and actually WANT to do something nice for her . Where lately I had been very "bleh" and had a hard time .

I had no idea a heart could ache this much . I laughed at my friends before and encouraged them to come to the pub and drink their sorrows away . Breaking up with a girl in the past was positive because it meant new pu$$y . Now it means being alone

This is great to hear man! I am glad I could make a positive difference in your relationship. I think you will see how powerful love truly is for men. I think a lot of men don't understand true love because they hve never found it so it is difficult for them to relate to the inticacies and feelings involved.

You should be very proud of your relationship because it sounds like the both of you have made a positive influence on eachothers lives. That is the key to a happy relationship... bringing out the best in each other!

Now if we or I can just convince my wife to give me another chance... she says her love is gone and doesn't feel like trying right now. It is breaking my heart, but Ihave nowhere else I would rather be, for better or worse until death do us part!

I wish you luck in life... drop me a PM if you ever want to chat.

Later bro!

Hey Wewed,

I answered your post on another thread. I wish I would've read this one first if I had seen it. It really sounds like you are being sincere and doing the things you need to do! I came down on you a little hard because I have been cheated on more times than I care to mention, and all of them took the "low road" and turned the situation around on me to make it seem like it was all my fault. So, I appologize for judging you so quick. That is something I have to work on because I have been burned so many times.

I think you should show your wife some of these comments. There are so many men out there that would just move on without a thought about how they have affected someone else's life and future relationships.

You are right in saying that you would never regret marrying the "woman of your dreams" even if it meant being hurt again. It's a live and learn thing! You sound like you have a good hold of yourself now and you deeply regret what you did. I hope you and your wife can get through this, because I know from experience how hard it can be. You need to put as much, or more, effort into getting your marriage back on track, than you would your career or anything else in your life. Treat it like you're going to get a million dollar bonus if you strive to do better at your job, and in the end, you'll have been married for 70 yrs. and you'll have more than money can buy! BONUS! :)

Oh my, I'm stuck again.

So my dwelling and focus on this matter has caused me to start either making up incidents with her past, or I'm right. Eitherway, it's become a hobby to feel bad.

I was talking to you guys and it seemed like forgiveness was the right path. But I started asking myself, what's the point? I can find someone new and not go through this trouble...

Well now I spent a lot of time thinking about that.. And I'm stuck in a weird place. I know that if we broke up, I'd miss her and maybe regret it. But if I stay with her, then how much longer will this mess go on?

I find it hard to do nice things for her because I feel that I was taken for granted, I was used. We both remember the good times, but it feels like I was a different person then.

Now I feel empty, alone, lifeless, and neutral. I don't joke like I once did. I'm far more seroius. And I look deeply into everything.

If I let my guard down with anyone, this can happen. I know rationally I can't go through my life being alone. But I don't want this to happen again to me or anyone.

What a horrible, horrible feeling.

Am I stuck on looking for reasons to hate her? Or do I actually hate this relationship? Or what? I wish I knew... I don't know where I am with this anymore.

I think the two of you need some time apart to re-evaluate how you feel about each other. If feeling bad has become your "hobby" and you are making up things and visualizing them in your mind, you need a break to clear your head!

This is not doing you OR her any good. In fact, it's toxic to your relationship at this point. You resent her for what she's done, and sooner or later she will think that nothing she can do to make you happy. She will most likely give up if she feels there is nothing more she can do to "fix" everything she has done in her past, and then you will feel beytrayal all over again.

I understand how you feel. It is a horrible horrible feeling! Betrayal is devasting and trust is one of the hardest things to regain! You start to question everything the person that lied to you does. It's difficult to get those thoughts from swirling around in your head! Then you start making things up... like you said, and it just spirals out of control from there.

Don't let this get to the point where you are so jaded that you don't trust ANYONE! I know from experience that that is a hard road to travel, and it makes you hard, bitter and cynical at that dead-end!

I don't know if you are going to counseling separate from her. If you're not, you need to. You can talk to someone and try and sort out your own feelings aside from hers. It will help to get you a new perspective on things, and the ability to decide if you want to wait this out or move on.

Good luck to you, and I hope I helped a bit. :)

Nope . I just caught her .it's over . Done . She's gone

OUCH! That really sucks! You are better off then... probably not what you want to hear right now though, but good thing you found out sooner than later. The only thing worse than being in a bad relationship for (let's say) a year, is being in one for a year and a day!

Just try to remember, not all of us are like that OK? You'll find someone that treats you the way you deserve to be treated, if you treat them with respect in return. So, don't go out on a revenge trip and try to bag as much... as you put it... PU$$Y as you can! it will only make you feel worse than you do now!

People, you have no idea how hard it is to get rid of someone who was "busted" with lies . Because when you bust them, they suddenly realize how bad they were. And they feel so bad about it . So bad, that they think they can repair it . But the fact is, you can't really repair it . You can try, but the person that was hurt will never really be happy again.

The person you hurt will always, for ever worry, wonder and be reminded of the past. The only people who "forgive" are settling and lowering their standards. Which is usually from being desperate.

Also, those who do wrong try really hard to fix their mistake. Because when you're forgiven you suddenly feel better. And you may never make a mistake like that again, but you need to let that person go . Or their life will be miserable .