Hi everyone! I am new to the board and this little section caught my eye instantly.


I have a friend whom I think is feeling a little bit smothered by me at the moment :-( "Jane" is 56 and I'm almost 38, so there is an age difference, but when we first met two years ago (she sold me my first house), we really hit it off. We have so much in common, it's unreal. Even my mother jokingly refers to her as my "twin". Jane is like a big sister to me.


To give a little background, Jane lost her husband to cancer in October 2003. She's been having a really tough time dealing with that, and added to that is the fact she has an insanely stressful job -- a job that has become even more stressful for her in the past couple of weeks. I can definitely relate where job stress in concerned (most of us can). I was so stressed out in my last job that I actually ended up going back to college three years ago to make a career change.


Anyway, for quite some time I've been dropping by the model home where Jane works and I'll take her a coffee or tea because I know her days are pretty long. She works alone in the model home , so she can't leave to go and pick these things up for herself. I never go in when she has clients there, but just in the past couple of weeks I've been under the impression that Jane feels *obligated* to sit and chat with me when I bring the coffee. I always tell her that I'm not going to stay, but she invites me in anyway. She told me about a year ago that she loves our little chats.


However, the last two times I've dropped by (I usually go in about once a week), Jane has been a little short with me. At first I thought she was just having a really bad day, but now that it's happened a couple of times, I'm beginning to think it's me. I asked her if she wanted to get together for dinner and she said she's so busy with work and home stuff that she doesn't have time right now. (I found out later than she did have time to go out for a drink with her sister-in-law).


Last night I called Jane at home and she was very abrupt. She said, "I'm really busy right now..." and went on to tell me that her step-mother passed away three days before, and she & her sister were making arrangements. She didn't offer to call me back, so I just said I would call her "later"... and it will be much later. I felt horrible. I had no idea that her step-mother had passed away, but it definitely let me know that I am the problem here -- and likely contributing to some of her stress :-(


Anyway, in the course of trying to help Jane and be a good friend to her, I think I've been a little *too* helpful. Now it seems that I'm nothing more than a pain in the butt to her. I'm worried that she's starting to hate me. (extreme, but, I'm feeling very insecure about things right about now!). I don't mean to be a pain, but I really care about her and I want her to be happy.


I've decided that I'm not even going to send a sympathy card because I think she's just plain tired of me. At a time like this, I would really want to be there for any of my friends, but given the situation, I'm wondering if "being there" means not being there -- if that makes sense.


Jane is not the kind to pick up the phone and call people (she admits that as being one of her worst faults), so I know it's unlikely she would ever call me. But, I'm thinking I will completely back off for a while, and in three weeks or so, if she hasn't called, I'll make a really quick call to her to see how she's doing. If anyone can offer any advice or insight, I am open to suggestion. This is SO incredibly difficult for me, but I care about Jane so much, and I really want to do what would be best for her.


Thanks ~ and take care everyone.

Please, by all means, send her a sympathy card -- that is never inappropriate among friends. However I would do two things. Give her some time (like a month) since her plate seems full just now and when you do contact her again, ask for a "general cleaning up session" with her. Hopefully you two can speak honestly about what happened and clean it up. I'd be willing to bet its all about "boundaries".

Please be prepared for the possibility of hearing that you were being inappropriate when you made dropping in at her work a habit. She probably felt taken advantage of by that action. If you can see if from her veiwpoint, she is a basically a sitting duck to you because she has to be there and she is in "hospitality mode" because of the very nature of her work and you might have mistaken that for personal. I know I have been taken advantaged of in the very same way at my office by my personal friends and I had to tell the insensitive ones who were making a pest of themselves that my work was off limits. I won't risk a confrontation at work with a personal friend -- that's too unnerving for the kind of focus my work requires. I don't know why she didn't call you later, from home some evening, and run this by you (that's what I would have done) but that doesn't erase what you initiated. At any rate, if you can see any of what I am suggesitng as fitting what happened with you two, then perhaps you can ask for the opportunity to make amends to her instead of a "general cleaning up" session -- I am sure that would go a long way to restoring her trust of you.

I can tell you this -- the friends who hear from me how I like or don't like to be treated are a lot more valued too. Life is messy and no more so than in relationships. Its okay to make mistakes with each other, God knows we all do-- the trick is to correct them with some measure of grace when you do! I hope this helps.

Thanks so much for the reply. I'm guessing you're right about "boundaries". A few people have told me to give her a couple of weeks time, but I personally feel that it should be a good 3 to 4 weeks.


I hadn't thought about the "sitting duck" point of view, but you're absolutely right. She probably does feel that way. ~ And I feel like such an idiot for not realizing that for myself. Ugh :-(


No, it doesn't. It's a very inconsiderate thing to do, and it needs to change. As for her calling me from home some evening... well, that goes back to what I posted originally about how bad she is at picking up the phone to call people ;-) Still, it would be nice to know her feelings on this --even if it's not easy to hear. What I'm doing right now is pure guess work.

I hope so. That would mean a lot to me.

Thanks again for your insightful reply. I will definitely give her some time, and hopefully in a month or so, she'll be a little more receptive to hearing from me again.

By all means do send a sympathy note. It would be unkind not to. Val has some great points if she is feeling smothered by you. Have you changed your behavior towards her lately? So you think you make her feel pressured to visit with you lately? Do you think it is possible that her behavior has nothing to do with you? If her stepmother just passed away, she may be experiencing some difficulty with other family members in resolving issues. Since she is her stepmother, are there 2 families involved. Families often have a lot of problems to solve during a time like this, monitary issues, who gets what, who does what, why are we doing this, why not this. I have known families that do not speak after a parent or both parents die. It is awful, but having worked in financing for many years I was amazed at how families acted. She may be telling you the truth, she is busy, and probably stressed to the max. If I were you, I would take her a coffee as usual, a guardian angel pin and a nice card saying you notice she seems under a lot of stress lately and if she needs you, just call. Then I would leave, do not even attempt to stay and talk. That way if it is not you, you have left her an opening. IF she is feeling smothered, you have bowed out gracefully.

K_3 could be right, often times we get caught up in, it is all about me, when actually it has nothing to do with us at all. It does seem odd that after 2 yrs she all of a sudden changes. I too think more could be going on behind the scenes than you know. Good luck, let us know "the rest of the story":)

That seems to be the consensus --to send the note. Since the funeral was yesterday, is it too late now?

No, I'm pretty much just doing what I do. "Jane" was on vacation from July 6 to July 17, so I hadn't seen her during that time. Before she started her vacation we were hanging out quite a bit -- dinner, driving range, and we had done our usual "tea party" - as she calls it when I take her coffee or tea on weekends. She even came right out and said how much she appreciated the cofeee because it was a crazy day. She had some munchies of her own and offered some to me. I had no indication that there was anything wrong at all. I can usually sense when something isn't right, but she was fine.

Since she came back from her vacation on July 17th, I've seen her twice and tried to call her at home twice -- one of those times she was out, and the second was the phone call I mentioned in my first post.

The one thing that has changed is her job. She came back from vacation and started working in a new model home. She has sold about 15 condos in the two weeks since she's been back. Jane told me before that 4 condo sales in one month is a huge victory. That's considered "busy". So, you can see that 15 sales in two weeks is insane. She is completely swamped. The paperwork for just one sale is enormous. Not only that, but she wants to get out of the housing sales business and into something else. I know from my own experience that when you're not happy in your job, it makes the stress that much harder to deal with.

Something I didn't mention... and this may be important... about 8 months ago, I called her at home one night and she told me that she was so stressed and that our friendship was "too intense" for her. She said she just lost her husband, with whom she had a very intense relationship, and that she's not "best friend material" right now. I backed off right away and we didn't talk for over a month. Slowly we started chatting again, and things have been fine... until now. She calls herself a "loner" and she doesn't have any really close friends. She has people she hangs out with here and there, but she tends to stick close to her family and that's about it.

Her parents stress her out too. They are not very kind to her at all. She'll buy her mother a Christmas or birthday gift, and her mother tells her she doesn't like it and to take it back. Her mother makes fun of her job, saying that all she does is "sit around in new homes all day". Her 83-year-old father is a little better, but Jane feels as though she's been replaced by a neighbor of his. This neighbour has been making meals for her Dad, and helping him out --- all the things that Jane wants to be doing as a daughter. Her Dad tells her how great this neighbor is and all she does for him. Jane said he calls her "kiddo"... and then she told me, "That's what he used to call me...." I felt SO bad for Jane :-(

I feel that way because the first time I saw her after her vacation, I took her a coffee after hours. The model home where she works is located in the same subdivision where I live. I was on my way to the grocery store and had to pass the model home to get there. I noticed that Jane was still there. (It was 6:30pm, and she's supposed to be finished at 5pm). On my way home, I picked up a coffee for myself and thought I would get one for her as well. Jane doesn't usually answer the door after hours, but quite some time ago we made up a "secret knock" (no laughing, please) so she would know when it's me.

She opened the door and told me to come in. I started to hand her the coffee (I planned on leaving right away), and she said she was just trying to get out there and get home. I told her to take the coffee for the road. Her reply was, "Well I can't very well just take a coffee and leave." That's what makes me think she felt an obligation to stay -- like it would be rude if she just brushed me off. I probably should have been more insistent and walked out the door.

I definitely think that's a possibility. As you can tell by my "novel" here, she has a lot going on. Until I started actually typing it all out, I don't think I even fully realized the extent of it. That said, I also think that I may not be helping the situation anymore by showing up with a coffee each weekend. Just a month ago she really seemed to enjoy it, but I guess everything is getting to her lately. (She told me herself that she's been really snippy with clients, and even her own kids). Anyway, it's only been a couple of weeks since she's seemed annoyed, so at least if there's an issue, I hope I've caught on to it early enough. I just wish she would tell me if I've upset her. The worrying is stressing me out!

I hadn't thought of this. I know she wasn't close to her step-mother, but I think she is concerned for her father, who's in his mid-80's. So yes, she has a lot to deal with there.

I think you're right...

I think I like this idea... and it would probably make me feel a little better too. Maybe I could even drop it off at the model home just before she gets there (?? ) That way she doesn't have to see me at all, but she'll know that I'm still there for her...

Thanks, Cassie! You can bet you will hear "the rest of the story" :) I am far too sensitive about things, and sometimes I think there's a problem and there isn't. In this case, I am sure something's wrong (possibly just a whole lot of stress), but can't tell if I'm the cause of it or not :( I'll keep you posted!

From reading all of your answers to K_3, I tend to think it has nothing to do with you. You just happen to be at the wrong place at the wrong time. When you care about a friend as you do, it is easy to think you did something wrong. Us people pleasers have a tendency to think that way. I, at one time would feel that way. That was many moons ago and it sounds as though K_3 knows the feelings. She may feel very close to you and it scares her at times that if she lost you it would hurt as it did losing her husband. It sounds as though she has a lot of issues to deal with, long seeded ones and ongoing ones and new one.:) Don't take on her issues, just be her friend.
I would drop the coffee, card and pin off when she is there and do it in a calm way, not rushing but smoothly in and out very quickly. It will all work out. I do not believe it is about you.

Cassie has read my mind, it does sound as though she has a lot going on. I think we tend to think other people think like we do.:) I have to really be upset at someone to even think of being rude to them. It is just not in my makeup. So I would feel so hurt if someone was rude to me for no reason. I would feel as though I had really done something bad to warrant that behavior. My daughter was 13 and had had a verbal confrontation with the other cheerleaders (she was one) and she said to me, "Mom, do you know how hard it is for you to be a b****? Well, that is how hard it is for me not to be one." Well, that was a statement that opened a window for me. I realized other people did not have to be at the same level of frustration or anger that I would be at to act the way they do. Does that make sense. What I am saying is you are thinking if you treated someone as she is treating you, it would be for a good reason and you are trying to rationalize it in your mind.

She may be feeling she has to give you more than she can give. That does not necessarily mean you are expecting it. It sounds as though she wants to please her family and that probably means it carried on into her husband and you. It sounds as though she does not get much appreciation from her family and feels she has to give so much to get. She can't imagine what you expect from her since you are nice to her.

I really feel from what you have said, it is more about her and not about you. When you dropped the coffee off earlier and she was ready to leave and made the statement about she couldn't very well take the coffee and leave. You could have said, "Oh yes you can, now go because I haven't time to visit." Hug her and leave. When you stop thinking it is you it will be easier to make decisions. I hope this makes some sense to you. Do keep us posted:)

Thanks again, Cassie. I pray that it isn't me, and I will certainly do anything I can not to add to her stress. I never thought of the fact that she may actually feel close to me and afraid of losing me. Sometimes it seems the opposite -- because she doesn't usually initiate anything.

Actually, when we were talking about family and friends a while back and she told me that she's always been somewhat of a loner, she explained that when she was about 6 or 7 years old, she did have a best friend. She said they were inseparable and did everything together. Then one day her friend moved to another city with her family, and Jane said she felt completely abandoned and she was devastated. She said that ever since then she never really wanted any close friends.

Jane's mother was a little bit wild as well. She would take off for weeks at a time and leave the family to fend for themselves. Jane told me that when she was a kid, she would stop in a little church on her way home and pray that her mother would be home when she got home. That's just sad. I know that she was pretty close to her older brother as well, and he died when he was 23 ---about 35 years ago. So you might be right -- she could be so afraid of being hurt again that it's just easier for her to keep people at arms' length.

I know it's easy to say, "That was years ago .... get over it!" but it's really not that simple. I've had similar life experiences and I can totally empathize with Jane -- and I hope she knows that. She once called me "her shadow". I guess that's why we (typically) get along so well, despite the age difference. I feel like I can really relate to her. I hope she feels the same, but who knows...

Thanks you guys for all your help. I love hearing all the different points of view. Keep the comments coming. It really helps to put things in perspective.

You're right there. I am guilty of that myself :)

That's exactly it! I'm the same as you. I have to pushed to the max before I could ever be rude to anyone.


Boy, you are good! She actually said that to me... it was almost a year ago now. She said she can't be the kind of friend I want her to be. I asked her what she thought I wanted her to be, and she couldn't really answer -- except to say that she's known people for 25 & 30 years and she doesn't see them as often as she sees me. Some of them live out of town, and at that time, Jane was working the model home in the complex where I bought my condo, so it was pretty "convenient". We would see each other almost every day -- sometimes deliberately, but most times it would be that we'd pass each other in our cars - she'd be leaving work, and I'd be just arriving home.

I don't expect anything from her. I just like her company because she's so easy to talk to -- and fun. We have a lot of the same interests, values and opinions, so we're never stuck for anything to talk about. In fact we both laugh because we'll plan to get together for a quick chat, and "quick" ends up being three hours :-)


Wow, there's another thing I hadn't thought of. (thanks!) That could put a lot of pressure on a person if they're thinking that way.


Awww, that would have been perfect! Why can't I think of these things??

Thank you! You guys are awesome :) It's hard to let go of that "paranoia" but I'm trying. It helps a lot to be able to discuss it with others... to get things outside of my own head. My friends here at home have been telling me the same things... it's probably not me, and even if it is, she'll get over it if I give her some space.

Here's a thought: Jane's step-mother was a florist, and the obituary in the paper suggested sending flowers to a friend or loved one in her memory. What if I got Jane a little "Thinking Of You" (or sympathy) card, along with a single yellow rose... or whatever the friendship rose is? (it's either yellow or pink, isn't it?). I could just drop that off before she gets to work (or before she leaves) and she'll have it.

And a question: Is there a tactful way to let her know that I don't expect anything from her; I just want to be there as a friend?

I think you are figuring it out quite well.I think that would be a wonderful idea to give her a yellow rose and sympathy card. I still think I would give it to her in person. If she is feeling pressured, and she sees you are still her friend, but you know when to give her space. You can POP in a give a gesture of your friendship and POP back out as quickly as you popped in, she will no you are her friend even when she has no time for you. I cannot imagine having her childhood of abandonment. When we are children and things happen to us, we are so young we can not sort them out in our minds and feel it is something we have done to cause them to leave. That feeling stays with us. I read somplace where someone said "Be careful of that negative thought it may stay with you for life". She needs to work these issues out and at some point in your friendship you may be able to talk to her about it. I think for now, showing her you are her friend even when she is a bit testy and has no time for you will show her you give unconditional friendship. Something she is not expecting. You can give her lots of space and still be her friend. She is used to people going away and if you totally leave without a friendly gesture, she will think. THERE, I knew I did not have time to coddle a friend. This is just a thought. You of course know her, but I do not think from the sounds of you, that you are too much. You are a caring person and what she needs to help go forward. A death in the family is going to bring up all of those other losses she has experienced in her life and she is going through some stuff now. I hope this helps.

It helps more than you know. Thanks, K_3 :) I just bought a card -- a very simple one. The front is just a picture of flowers & butterflies, and on the inside all it says is, "You're in my thoughts and prayers right now." There's room for me to write a little note of my own, so that's what I'm going to do -- along with the yellow rose, of course.

The only small problem is, I'll have to go in there 'after hours' and I told her I wouldn't do that anymore. (I work an hour outside of town, so her day is finished by the time I get home). -- And, she doesn't like people showing up at her house because she says it's too old and she's embarrassed by it. So I definitely wouldn't do that to her. I guess I'll go to the model home and just make sure I have an escape route in case she wants to deck me one right between the eyes :p

You will handle it nicely. I think she is quite fortunate to have a friend like you. It sounds as though she has quite a few stipulations on friendship.:) I have and have had friends in my lifetime that have some odd behavior. I love them for who they are. I know my hubby often scratches his head and someone once told me I could find good in Atilla the Hun.:rolleyes: Keep us informed

You bet :) I don't know if you'd call it "stipulations" exactly, but I definitely think she's the kind of person who needs lots of space. I tend to be a bit like that myself, so I do understand that about her. Being a self-proclaimed "loner" I think she can get to feeling smothered pretty easily. I don't treat her any differently than I do my other friends, which can be a bad thing because I tend to lose sight of the fact that I might be invading her space, and then I feel horrible that I've upset her.

Anyway, I'm debating about waiting until the weekend to take the card & flower to her. That will give her about a week of "space" since my last contact with her - which was the phone call where she was a bit snippy with me. There's no guarantee that she'll even be around by the time I get home from work today, so waiting until the weekend might be best. The only question is -- would that seem too much "after-the-fact", given that her step-mother's funeral was two days ago?

Here's an update - and not a great one. I took the yellow rose and card to Jane at the model home. When I knocked she didn't't answer, which gave me bad vibes right away. Knowing I could be in for trouble, I knocked a second time, and Jane came to the door.

She was nice to me, and she thanked me for the rose & card, but she told me that she's never had a close friendship before and this is all too much for her. She told me that she dosen't even know if she does want a close friendship. She said maybe it's that she's so stressed with work and all that's going on with her family, but she really doesn't feel good about the fact that I'm so nice to her and she doesn't reciprocate. She said that she's just not a social person and she feels like she's doing things because I want to do them, and she doesn't feel right about that. She explained that she has friends she's known for 20 years and she only sees or talks to them a few times a year, so these once-a-week chats are a lot for her.

I said that she always seems to have fun when we get together, and she said she does, but she just can't initiate anything herself and she feels bad about that -- because I'm always the one suggesting that we go out for coffee, etc.

Anyway, I think you get the gist of it. I'm soooooooooo upset right now. This is really hard for me…. Maybe harder than it should be. When I feel really comfortable with someone, as I do with her, I think I tend to get a little too “attached”, and I'm sure that is not comfortable for her either.

There are five model homes where Jane is, and we were standing outside for the last part of our conversation because she hadn't locked up 4 of the other homes, and this was about an hour after quitting time. I told her, “Well, I'm not just going to write you off.” And her response was, “I kind of wish you would…” I think she was feeling badly because she kind of gave me this really sad look and rushed off, saying, “I got to go….” and she went inside to lock up.

Of course, I was pretty much a basket case. I drove away, but then went back. I was crying so hard. Surprisingly, she answered the door when I knocked. She said, “Awww, Michelle, this isn't your fault…”. She assured me several times over that it's nothing I've done, or didn't do -- it's just her. She said she's not angry with me, and she said she does like me -- I'm a nice person and a good person. (I don't feel that way right now, but that's besides the point.). She said again that she knows this relationship is important to me, and she feels badly that she's just not good at being a friend back.

Jane said she had to get going because her 22-year-old daughter just called and was angry with her for being late getting home from work again. (I guess she wanted her Mom to go to a movie with her or something). Jane told me to go home and get something to eat and I'll feel better. Somehow, I don't think I'll be able to eat tonight.


So, I guess that's it. Not the outcome I had hoped for, but that's life. I'm finding it really hard to believe that it's not my fault. I'm sure there's more about the conversation that I'll remember later, but right now, my head is spinning and I can't seem to stop crying. I guess I need to go and do something…. Watch a movie or whatever.

Thanks for all your support everyone. It means a lot.

Michelle

I think you have laid out the exact right game plan already. It seems like Jane is probably under a lot of stress right now and has a lot on her plate. It also seems like she's not a "people person" to begin with so it's very hard for someone like her to maintain close friendships as it is. Wait your 3 weeks, like you said, then make that "quick call." That way Jane will know that you haven't forgotten her. By then she may have a little more time and energy to invest in your friendship. If not you may have to wait even longer. Be there for her but pursue your own interests as well and don't be angry or bitter if she doesn't make your friendship a priority right now.

I haven't quite worked out this site quite yet. Went to "edit settings", I thought I changed it-wel I did eastern standard time. Now it say its 3 hours too early. Oh well, I know what time it Thank you!LOL

Ok now I have had a chance to read this in it's entirety. I too am very insecure and sensitive about reactions to myself. I sometimes get a little paranoid even... but I think she feels a little "smothered". Even though your visits are harmless and friendly she might feel they are advanced. The loss of a spouse either by death or divorce effects people differently. I say back off and let her make the moves.. if she doesn't you know where you stand. It's just my opinion but just as I am weary I am also perceptive. Youu sound very decent and something tells me you have a gut instinct about jane

Thank you s_cianci and Doublell. I appreciate your input.

I talked to Jane briefly on the phone last night. (I made the call... something I probably should not have done). She was very understanding and patient with me. She assured me that this is not my fault (still having a hard time with that, but I'm trying... ), and she said she would call me sometime. We didn't put a time limit or anything, so who knows how long it will be. I pray that if she said she will call, she will -- in her own time. I owe her that much. I truly hope that she's not writing me off, but only time will tell...