... help?

I feel I should elaborate. I don't think I'm particularly ugly. I'm not exactly a male model, though, but few of us are. I'm a bit on the overweight side, but not morbidly so. I'm a university graduate (Law), bilingual, well read, and undertaking postgraduate study.

The problem is, though, I never know what to say or anything. I don't really care for clubbing or the like because, well, I'm not into any of that sort of thing, I feel self conscious when dancing, and I find it really hard to switch off in social situations. I tried clubbing as a student a few times and ended up bailing because I just couldn't do with it all and I never knew what to say to anyone or even how to approach them and the like. Even when I'm out doing stuff I enjoy or places I'd like to go or suchlike.

Being constantly skint doesn't help either I don't think, but that is the credit crunch for you.

I do enjoy myself though. I'm quite a film buff, I'm a connoisseur of questionable science fiction and fantasy novels, I used to be a bit of a gamer (of the table top variety), and I like heavy metal and go to concerts when I can scrape the money together. I'm also, politically, a libertarian (but not an anarcho capitalist!)

I have suspected that I may have Aspergers' Syndrome though I'm not going to go out my way to be formally diagnosed with it since I can't see what help that could be.

Thing is, whenever I try to socialise with people I never seem to be able to do so, even if they're into stuff I like. I don't know where to start with trying to find a woman and even if I did I have this nagging feeling that if she found out about being virginal at 23 and a half she'd run a mile.

Before some wit suggests hiring a prostitute, it did cross my mind. But the prospect does leave a rather nasty taste in the mouth; I'm not interested in paying for it and besides, it's more than just the sex that I'd like to get to.

I did sort of have a girl friend at 17 or so but that didn't really get anywhere. I could never seem to understand her or anything or why she seemed to freeze up when I was out with her or even what I was meant to be saying or doing and when. I also got the impression she was only going out with me out of some sort of charity, but it's years ago now and I can't remember all of it in enough detail.

Other people I've spoken to about this in the flesh have said that I come over as being "constantly on edge," "emotionally cold, "like I overanalyse everything," and so forth.

I really have no idea what to do. I can remember vividly asking this question on a different board under a different username and... well, things haven't improved much since then!

That's about it really. Now for your thoughts!

Look its OK to be a virgin if you want when your 40 don't just have sex o feel pleasure when you fiind the right person and your ready go for it but always remember to be informed about safe sex you don't want to end up with any diseas!

Don't obsess about the virginity thing. As you know, that can be solved by hiring someone to get rid of it. So that's not the problem here. Plus, this isn't something you go up to a woman and say. It may lead to awkward moments in the beginning but... I wouldn't worry too much. Your biggest problem is that you need to get into situations where the awkward moments happen!

Well, I am guessing you do have activities where you do meet women. School, church... maybe a local bar or concert house... somewhere. Then go there and talk with these girls. Just try small talk. I don't know. Ask them their name and what they do. Don't think too much about whether you want or not to go out with them. It's just for you to get used with the idea of going up to women and talking to them.

Then you can try that with woman you would like to date. It's not much different, except that you need to show you are interested... compliment her, try to get closer, get some strong eye contact, physical contact... I don't know if there's a sequence of steps, each woman is an individual... but I found out the idea is to "invade" her space without being pushy... if she's interested she'll open a little and you have to get in - if you don't she'll think you're not interested. And please, don't be inappropriate!

Again, I hate generalizing woman, but they tend to go for confident (differnet than cocky) guys. If you are not, they will see. It will also show on your posture the firmness of your gestures and in the lack of eye contact. So don't obsess about the virginity. If you do, than you'll look insecure, and make things worse. When a woman likes you, she'll think it's actually cute.

First off, there is NOTHING to be ashamed or embarrassed about being a virgin, no matter how old you are - and don't let anyone tell you any different!

Before I continue, I want to point out to you that you should never rely basing your happiness on having a relationship. As Talaniman says, "Having a relationship should be a bonus to your life and should not be the only reason to be happy." (love this quote btw) That being said, here's a few tips that will get you started.

What women find attractive:

One of the things that I've learned from my female friends and my own personal experience is that most women (yeah I'm going to generalize here, so sue me) find nothing more sexy and attractive than a guy who has his act together, is confident, is plain damn funny, and who leads a happy and interesting life. What's this mean to you? Build an attractive lifestyle by pursuing and exploring hobbies and other interests that you're genuinely interested in. If you're not funny or are lacking a sense of humor, go out there and read a book or two on the subject... luckily a sense of humor is something you can develop. Learn how to be comfortable in your own skin - be confident in who you are.

You stated: "I'm a university graduate (Law), bilingual, well read, and undertaking postgraduate study." That's not a bad start at all.

You can find many books on these subjects and I recommend going out there to do some reading.

Where to meet women:

Going to places where you would meet women that have the same interests is always a good place to start, so lets see here...

* Film buff
* Science fiction and Fantasy novels
* Tabletop gaming
* Heavy metal music
* Libertarian

So my suggestion would be to look for local film clubs, science fiction/fantasy novel clubs, tabletop gaming groups, and Libertarian groups. I actually have a few friends who met their boy/girlfriends through the local Libertarian group around here.

Another huge thing you can do for yourself is build some strong networking and socilializing skills and just start meeting as many people as possible. There are books on holding a conversation/small talk - definitely pick one up and start reading.

Good luck :)

Right now your stopping yourself from meeting that right girl for you because of your shyness.

You've a lot of good well excellent qualities that women look for in a guy and being a virgin is an extra bonus.

Did you ever see that movie "40 year old virgin"? See that once Steve let go he was able to find love by being himself and by not taking his co-workers advice? This is what you need to do. They've many books but right now you get it over the internet about getting over your phobia and everything else will fall into place and if a woman can't accept you being a virgin than she isn't for you.

You are what females call a total package now it's time to build your confidence up and watch yourself soar.

Build your life around the things you like to do and activities you enjoy and slowly expand your circle to include things you want to learn and try. The only way to get over being shy and awkward, is to be among people and get comfortable and confident.

Single guys should be having fun exploring life, and themselves. Being a virgin, has nothing to do with that and you can enjoy being experienced with life until you find the right partner for yourself.

Believe it or not, there is no hurry, so enjoy yourself until that time comes.

Bring yourself to socialize around the activities you do. You're studying law, very nice. Once you start banking women will be flocking to you, you just have to weed out the ones who aren't with you for you. If you are having socializing issues, try doing volunteer work with children. Talk with them about anything in their interest. It's the same challenge as keeping someone interested in you. If you can keep a child with a 3 second attention span entertained with your conversation, you can do it with anyone.

First, thanks to everyone who replied. Very helpful.

One or two queries though...

ImTotallyLost - You say that if she's interested she'll "open a little." What exactly do you mean by this? I've never been any good at discerning emotional cues or things unless they're really flagrantly obvious and one problem I've had in the past is picking up hints and suchlike. They seem to pass me right by. The girl friend I had when I was younger as I mentioned in the original post once complained that I seemed never to pick up on signals... what should I be looking for?

The majority of men are not skilled in picking up the subtleties of when a woman is attracted to them so you're definitely not alone in this. Most of these signals of interest actually occur through body language. This is definitely where you could do some research by getting a book on body language or looking for some of the free resources out there online.

There is soooo much truth to these words. Sorry Tal, had to spread the rep. Just buy into what Tal says here... BELIEVE me, it is so true! Enjoy life... enjoy life some more... and keep enjoying it! You only get one shot.

Yeah... that is hard. I am not very good at that either... I kind of learned the hard way... by seeing signs that weren't there and being rejected, hehe. And I can't really think of a different way of doing this. I'll suggest you to do that. Try to overdo a little bit (DON'T BE A JERK, THOUGH) and see if it works. You'll get turned a couple of times, but don't give up and don't let that beat your confidence!

A good thermometer for me is to tell a really lame joke. That's of course, after I've talking for a while... if I tell a bad joke and she laughs as if it was the funniest thing ever, it is a good indicative that I am doing good - that's when I usually start to compliment or look deeply in the persons eye. But I don't think this is a global formula - it has to do more with the way I am. You'll find your way.

The biggest think I have to tell you is that you shouldn't fear rejection. It will happen, but it is only as bad as you let it be. Keep trying it. Flirting, going out, this should be fun. If you're not having fun, you need to remove all the pressure. It'll happen when it happens. The higher the pressure, the harder it'll be.

I'll also add to those guys before us... don't focus on the virginity thing. It doesn't matter. Almost every female friend I know and that I talked about sex and relationships told me that sex is a wonderful bonus and they love it, but they never made a relationship or a one night stand decision based on that unless it consistently sucks. Quoting one (straight) friend of mine, "men are terrible at sex." So fuggetaboutit.

Let of some steam at the gym, makes you feel so good about yourself. Confidence is key, the ladies love it. You sound like a pretty well rounded individual so I wouldn't worry. I can suggest one thing though, once you bag yourself a lady, a couple of others come along at the same time - always happens fact! Don't cheat. It might actually ruin your life.

Good luck!

Man listen, you are normal

and this is "curable"....

First off, 23 is not that old. In fact you've only been legal to drink for a couple years... and hugh hefner was a virgin until 23 too!

I have found that playboys tend to be guys that didn't get the girl when they were in high school or college and then make up for it later... DON'T DO THAT.. once you crack the code, and you will, ALWAYS be respectful to women..

1. You need a dating coach or a relationship counselor... You need to learn to communicate on a small talk level... human beings, like animals, connect in small subtle ways and build. If you are cold and aloof then you cannot do this.

2. learn small talk... get books on dating and practice talking to strangers by joining weekend social clubs and after work functions.

3. have girls as friends... not sex targets... once you get good with them they will set you up with other girls.

4. I suspect you are mentally fine, but socially not well developed. So you must learn this behavior from scratch. You are a smart guy... google some life coaches and make an EFFORT. Whatever your passions are you can share with a girl too...

5. what are they?

The singer of my band is 23 and he's a virgin. I think some girls know this so they try their hardest to take him home. I always see some drunk sow putting her arms around him; I shoo them away.

I didn't know this until the last show we did this past Saturday. I have a lot of respect for him, so I'm sure people have a lot of respect for you as well.

He did say that he wants to wait for someone he actually likes, but he's also reticent because he's unsure of what to do when it comes to sex.

You will find the right girl in time, and I think it's so great that you are a virgin. Save it for that special woman I'm sure you are going to meet one day! Good luck!!

Don't worry about it. The whole virgin thing doesn't matter in the long run. When a woman likes you, she WILL NOT CARE. She will actually be either surprised(in a good way), not believe you, or be thankful that you didn't go and screw half of the metropolitan area. Just don't bring it up when you first meet them. Wait until you have been seeing each other for a little while(at least a few weeks), or another appropriate time.

If you have friends, go out with them to some sort of social setting that you all can be comfortable with. Then while you're there, check out the women that are there.

Here are some pointers that seem to work for me... more or less :)

The easiest way to start a conversation is to say

Hi, how are you?
She replies...
My name is _____
She replies...
Nice to meet you _____
Continue conversation

Bring up a commonality you share with them at the moment. Be observant of her, her friends, and your surroundings. Then just listen to what she says. Form new conversation topics and questions around her responses and add something about you to each topic. Try to hold the conversation for a few minutes then try a joke or compliment on something she is wearing. Complimenting jewelry or clothing is better, IMO, than saying something about her looks... that comes later.

Try this with just random girls at first that you can kind of feel comfortable around. Then work your way up to girls that you would consider dating.

Don't sweat it or work yourself up. Like others said the more pressure you put on yourself, the harder it will be for you. Go with the flow of the situation and you will be fine.

Before you go out, stand in front of the mirror and look yourself in the eye. Get yourself pumped up, like you would before that big presentation you have to give to the board members! Tell yourself that you are a great man. Tell yourself you have your stuff together. Tell yourself you're handsome and then smile. Tell yourself that you will talk to 1 woman tonight. Do this every time before you go out. This will help you build confidence in yourself. If you don't talk to that woman, or you get rejected (this WILL happen), tell yourself that it's OK the next one is around the corner and move on. The next lady is right around the corner. Don't let ANY rejection shake your confidence... she just doesn't know who she is passing on... her loss.


Just go with the flow...
NO PRESSURE! :D

Rejection happens, to the best of us... I think the best thing you can remember is this:

If a girl doesn't like you, then screw her... there are plenty of others out there. Why should you care what she thinks anyway?

It is all a mentality thing, as jmw has suggested.