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shannonpixie · May 11, 2010, 09:46 AM

I live in Central NY, and have a month to month lease with my landlord. She has decided to terminate our lease at the end of the month, however she has not given us written notification, only an email, and has not included a date, just ASAP. We have asked her to move out on July 15th (our lease would technically end on June 15th) but she has refused (but still not given us a date or written notification.) Is this legal? Isn't she required to give us written notification with an exact date?

JudyKayTee · May 11, 2010, 09:59 AM

It's a contract. Presumably you both know when the contract ends.

If you stay one day over you will be a month to month tenant and will owe for another month (minimum).

It would be good legal protection if one of you advised the other that the lease is not being renewed but it is not an automatic renewal in NY.

excon · May 11, 2010, 10:10 AM

Originally Posted by shannonpixie

Is this legal? Isn't she required to give us written notification with an exact date?

Hello shannon:

She's required to give you a minimum of 30 days notice that includes one complete pay period. Apparently, your pay period runs from the 15th, through the 14th of the following month. Her notice DOES include the period of May 15, through June 14, when your agreement ends.

That IS the exact date by which you need to be out, and the email most likely DOES constitute written notice. So, her request looks legal to me. Yes, it would be nice if she more cooperative, but she gave you all the legal information you need.

excon

shannonpixie · May 11, 2010, 10:15 AM

Originally Posted by JudyKayTee

It's a contract. Presumably you both know when the contract ends.

If you stay one day over you will be a month to month tenant and will owe for another month (minimum).

It would be good legal protection if one of you advised the other that the lease is not being renewed but it is not an automatic renewal in NY.

No, our whole lease has been month to month. Maybe I worded it badly.

We are month to month and our landlord has stated that she wants us out asap. But she has not specified a specific date that she wants us out by. I know that by law in New York State you have to give the tenant one month's notice on a month to month lease. Such as, if you want the tenant out on November 1st you have to give the tenant notice by September 30th.

All we have from her is an email that she wants us to move out. Doesn't she need to get us some sort of official letter stating the day we have to be moved out by to terminate the lease?

I ask because it will take us some time to find a new place and we want to stay here as long as we can.

jbarnes1985 · May 11, 2010, 10:30 AM

Most states have a tenants union where you can find out your rights as a tenant. Unless you have violated your lease then she doesn't have the right to tell you to leave asap. And is required to give you thirty day WRITTEN notice either mailed to you or nailed to your door. No an email is not a legal written notice.

Now if you did something to violate your contract, then she can ask you to move out immediately. But you are not required to by law. She still has to go through the eviction process which takes about a month to do and still would give you 30 days to move out after the eviction notice is given. But I would not advise you to let it go that rout because most apartments won't rent to you if you have an evictions on your credit.

shannonpixie · May 11, 2010, 10:48 AM

Originally Posted by jbarnes1985

Most states have a tenants union where you can find out your rights as a tenant. Unless you have violated your lease then she doesn't have the right to tell you to leave asap. And is required to give you thirty day WRITTEN notice either mailed to you or nailed to your door. No an email is not a legal written notice.

Now if you did something to violate your contract, then she can ask you to move out immediately. But you are not required to by law. She still has to go through the eviction process which takes about a month to do and still would give you 30 days to move out after the eviction notice is given. But I would not advise you to let it go that rout because most apartments wont rent to you if you have an evictions on your credit.

Thanks. No, I don't think she's claiming that we broke the lease. Basically we are renting a house that's on the market. A few weeks ago we had foreclosure papers delivered to the house which means that she desperately needs to sell the place. We told her that we could not afford to buy the house so she wants to get us out and get tenants in who might buy it.

She claims the house is in bad condition (messy, etc) but I think this is just a pretext. She was in the house before and never mentioned it being messy. The Realtor who has been in to show the house many times has never claimed that the house is in bad condition. IMO, the house is in fine shape. The first time she mentioned this was after we said we would not buy the house. Also there is nothing specific in the lease about having to maintain a level of cleanliness.

excon · May 11, 2010, 10:50 AM

Hello j:

Couple things:

People come HERE to find out what their rights are, and that's what we tell 'em. We don't make it up. Our advice is based on NY state landlord tenant law. We have copies of those laws right here on our website at the top of the real estate page on a stiicky note. So, I wouldn't send 'em someplace else.

Now, we can split hairs regarding whether email constitutes "legal" written notice, or not. I don't even disagree with you... Right or wrong, I believe a judge would rule that it IS legal notice.. Or, he might not...

But, as you suggested, that wouldn't be a good route to go. I believe MY advice, and Judy's too since she LIVES in NY, to be head and shoulders above that of a tenants union.

excon

AK lawyer · May 11, 2010, 11:25 AM

Originally Posted by jbarnes1985

... No an email is not a legal written notice.
...

Originally Posted by excon

... Right or wrong, I believe a judge would rule that it IS legal notice.. Or, he might not...
...

I agree with excon. The statute, if there is one, defining "written" was probably written before e-mail. But I believe most courts would find that text written on a computer and delivered to it's intended recipient is indeed "written". It serves the function of having the text recorded in such a way that it can be referred to for later reference. It can, if you so choose, be printed out. Whether it is printed out or not, it is in a format that it can be read (albeit on your monitor). If it can be read it is written, as far as I am concerned.

shannonpixie · May 11, 2010, 11:30 AM

Originally Posted by AK lawyer

I agree with excon. The statute, if there is one, defining "written" was probably written before e-mail. But I believe most courts would find that text written on a computer and delivered to it's intended recipient is indeed "written". It serves the function of having the text recorded in such a way that it can be referred to for later reference. It can, if you so choose, be printed out. Whether it is printed out or not, it is in a format that it can be read (albeit on your monitor). If it can be read it is written, as far as I am concerned.

Thanks. The only thing she wrote was "It would be best if you moved out as soon as possible." This would constitute notice that we should be gone by June 15th then?

AK lawyer · May 11, 2010, 11:33 AM

Originally Posted by shannonpixie

Thanks. The only thing she wrote was "It would be best if you moved out as soon as possible." This would constitute notice that we should be gone by June 15th then?

Probably not. The notice should give a specific date.

I may be wring, but it looks like she is being lenient with you and willing to work with you if you can't find another place by then.

JudyKayTee · May 11, 2010, 11:45 AM

Originally Posted by jbarnes1985

Most states have a tenants union where you can find out your rights as a tenant. Unless you have violated your lease then she doesn't have the right to tell you to leave asap. And is required to give you thirty day WRITTEN notice either mailed to you or nailed to your door. No an email is not a legal written notice.

Now if you did something to violate your contract, then she can ask you to move out immediately. But you are not required to by law. She still has to go through the eviction process which takes about a month to do and still would give you 30 days to move out after the eviction notice is given. But I would not advise you to let it go that rout because most apartments wont rent to you if you have an evictions on your credit.

I don't know which State you are referencing - I AM in NY; I work in the legal profession; I own/manage rental properties.

The Courts are interpreting an email as written notice when it comes to real estate law.

I see no indication that an eviction is even necessary. OP is willing to move. It appears she just doesn't know when and that has been answered.

I would like to see your source concerning what constitutes written notice in NY.

excon · May 11, 2010, 12:09 PM

Originally Posted by AK lawyer

Probably not. The notice should give a specific date.

Hello again, shannon:

While I agree that she could, and perhaps SHOULD have been more specific, it really doesn't matter what she THINKS it means, because you only have to satisfy your obligations under the lease - not what she imagines your obligations to be. In terms of the law, I cannot, in your case, believe that a court would interpret "asap" to be anything OTHER than the day your lease expires.

Nonetheless, you're not going to make her into a good landlord just because you want her to be... That's fine. You can take the lead. Email her back what YOUR understanding of "asap" is, and inform her that you'll be out on the 15th. Tell her you'll call on the 14th to arrange a walk through.

excon

shannonpixie · May 11, 2010, 12:43 PM

Thanks for the help everyone.

JudyKayTee · May 11, 2010, 02:25 PM

Let us know how it works out - if the landlord wants you out ASAP, then she would have to evict you (before the end of the rental period FOR CAUSE) but this doesn't seem to be a confrontational situation.

It seems more that you are looking for info - ?

jbarnes1985 · May 11, 2010, 04:52 PM

Originally Posted by excon

Hello j:

Couple things:

People come HERE to find out what their rights are, and that's what we tell 'em. We don't make it up. Our advice is based on NY state landlord tenant law. We have copies of those laws right here on our website at the top of the real estate page on a stiicky note. So, I wouldn't send 'em someplace else.

Now, we can split hairs regarding whether email constitutes "legal" written notice, or not. I don't even disagree with you... Right or wrong, I believe a judge would rule that it IS legal notice.. Or, he might not...

But, as you suggested, that wouldn't be a good route to go. I believe MY advice, and Judy's too since she LIVES in NY, to be head and shoulders above that of a tenants union.

excon

I do not disagree with you I am only giving my advice on this. I live in Louisville, KY and here an email does not consist of legal notice. Which is why he should ask a tenants union about his rights. A tenants union here is just a place for tenant/landlord laws. Every state is different.

JudyKayTee · May 11, 2010, 06:06 PM

Originally Posted by jbarnes1985

I do not disagree with you I am only giving my advice on this. I live in Louisville, KY and here an email does not consist of legal notice. Which is why he should ask a tenants union about his rights. A tenants union here is just a place for tenant/landlord laws. Every state is different.

She posted she lives in NY - Kentucky might be of interest but... I know NY law.

ScottGem · May 11, 2010, 06:57 PM

Originally Posted by jbarnes1985

I live in Louisville, KY and here an email does not consist of legal notice.

Since the OP stated she was in NY, then applying KY law doesn't help her. Do you have a cite that states an e-mail would not be acceptable notice for termination of tenancy?

ScottGem · May 11, 2010, 07:05 PM

Originally Posted by shannonpixie

Thanks. The only thing she wrote was "It would be best if you moved out as soon as possible." This would constitute notice that we should be gone by June 15th then?

While I agree that e-mail will often be accepted as notice of termination of tenancy, I don't think the e-mail as described would. This e-mail doesn't state that the tenancy is being terminated. Nor does it give you the required 30 days notice. It doesn't even state that your are required to move only that "It will be best". And ASAP means as soon as possible, it may not be possible to find a new place so quickly.

So I would respond to her that you understand that she wants you to move, so you have started looking for a new place. As soon as you find one, you will notify her of your move date.

Then see how she responds.