[excon]

Hello:

Is it possible to win a war without attacking the Constitution too? I say yes. The dufus in chief and his cohorts amongst you, say no.

I don't know. There's this twisted Republican mentality that I've observed but can't, for the life of me, figure it out. It goes something like this. When I was in the joint, there was this guy who got caught diddling his girl in the visiting room. So they put out a bulletin telling us how they were going to punish us. Huh?

Yes, that guy did screw up and here's what we're going to do to you. We're going to take away your visiting room. Huh?

So, here we were, just minding our business and we get attacked. We know who the bad guy is, but Bush said, here's what we're going to do to you, and passed the Patriot Act. Huh?

I guess what I'm saying is I think you can win a war without declaring war on the Constitution. As a matter a fact, I really don't see the connection between punishing us and winning a war.

Huh? Maybe you can splain it to me.

excon

[Dark_crow]

The Patriot Act is a defense, not a weapon of war and there has never been a war where people did not loose some degree of liberty for self protection.

So far as Prisons go, they could do away with any visitation for all I care.

[magprob]

By punishing all of the inmates, they put the guilty inmate's life in danger. That was a bad move on the part of the warden. That just goes against the rules of basic corrections. It really can't be equated to the "Republican mentality" we see in our society. Not when George Bush Senior and Bill Clinton are wandering around hand in hand promoting the New World Order. After all, they are all members of the CFR. Hillary will continue the work of G.W. Bush. She is David Rockefellers pick for this next go round.
We are not being "punished." We are being controlled to achieve an end. That end will make America seem like one big jail.

[oneguyinohio]

Hmmm, the Illuminati, Skull and Bones Society, and Bilderbergers must not be all that great if they can't put a stop to the internet flow of ideas?

But perhaps that is just what they want us to think? Maybe it's their way of monitoring who is saying what? Better be careful... Big Brother Might be watching...

As for a war on the constition, Here is the way I see it... The constition is only the tool being used to exercise/gain control... with some pretty free interpretation from a coke sniffer and his cronies, I'm surprised they didn't find an amendment in there that had been previously overlooked... or wait, perhaps that is what executive powers are?

The war is against those protected by the constition, so by saying that the constition doesn't apply, the protections are removed... with the support of Congress and Supreme Court.

Who better to support (financially) and name the individuals on this supporting cast than those secret directors in those secret societies? Or is it all accidental?

[Skell]

Hello:

Is it possible to win a war without attacking the Constitution too?

excon

Its too complicated for the dufus to concentrate on more than one thing at once.

[tomder55]

The worse thing about the Patriot Act is the silly name it was given. All the act does is upgrade FISA which became law in 1978 .FISA was designed to counter Cold War espionage .The Patriot Act addresses how to combat non-state foreign terrorist .The tools that al-Qaeda uses in it's war on us were not around in 1978 . The law had to be upgraded so we could combat the new technologies. The Patriot Act represents a reasonable compromise to add to the government's counterterrorism powers and does not raise serious constitutional problems.

The act was signed after it was overwhelmingly passed by both houses of Congress and it has survived legal challenges in the courts.In fact ,the courts have consistenty upheld a national security exception to the Fourth Amendment.

The Fourth Amendment declares that “[t]he right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated.”

SCOTUS' Vernonia School Dist. 47J v. Acton ruled that "the text of the Fourth Amendment indicates, the ultimate measure of the constitutionality of a governmental search is 'reasonableness."

So although as DC said compromises have always been made between liberty and security , there is nothing there that is inconsistent with constitutional principles. As I have said before,the Constitution is not a suicide pact. Like any other act of Congress, the Patriot Act should be scrutinized,and, if necessary, amended.In the cases where certain parts of the act were ruled unconstitutional adjustments to the law have been made.

“I have never had a single abuse of the Patriot Act reported to me. My staff e-mailed the ACLU [American Civil Liberties Union] and asked them for instances of actual abuse. They e-mailed back and said they had none.” Dianne Feinstein

“the tide of criticism” being directed against the act “is both misinformed and overblown.”Joe Biden

In other words ;the concerns about the act have been vastly exaggerated and overblown .

[purplewings]

By punishing all of the inmates, they put the guilty inmate's life in danger. That was a bad move on the part of the warden. That just goes against the rules of basic corrections. It really can't be equated to the "Republican mentality" we see in our society. Not when George Bush Senior and Bill Clinton are wandering around hand in hand promoting the New World Order. After all, they are all members of the CFR. Hillary will continue the work of G.W. Bush. She is David Rockefellers pick for this next go round.
We are not being "punished." We are being controlled to achieve an end. That end will make America seem like one big jail.

Agree. The New World Order will enslave us as designed in the Book of Revelation - unless we stop it before it comes to pass.

[BABRAM]

Hi excon-

I agree that in general it's become a fine line between intrusiveness and privacy. I'm Ok with giving up some freedom for the protection that may benefits others, but I hear you. I've grown accustomed (conditioned) to waiting longer as my luggage rides on a conveyor belt and goes through the airport x-rays machines. Better yet as I go shoeless as an attendant is eye-measuring the ounces of toiletries that I packed into a see-through plastic bag. How about this? We have economy stimulation coming our direction, no if ands or buts, that must be declared as additional income. That would be our money, of course, given back to us and re-taxed over again. This would be criminal if you or I tried such in business. However some of our duped populace is acting as if the rebate money is picked off a White House lawn tree. Another example: I have a baby boy that the state of Nevada wouldn't issue a social security card to recently without seeing his shot records. Who the hell told the bean counters at the SS office that they are now medical facilitators for compliance of immunizations? Well that would be our government that is into every body's business. It's not just all about money either, they seem to have a control motive.


Bobby

[ordinaryguy]

Check this out.

[N0help4u]

I agree with Purplewings 100% the whole thing is a bi-partisan thing where both Dems and Reps are working toward New World Order as shown in the Bible. They are just going about it two different ways. Bush is setting it all up for the next Pres to make the big move on it all
Whether it be Rep or Dem.
They already twist the Constitution and so forth to make it say what they want to their advantage.
Within 4 to 5 years it is going to be so revised we won't even recognize it and the ones that don't know any better are going to say there was no constitution the way we say... pretty much just like they are trying to say there was no holocaust.

[inthebox]

Ex:

I'm okay with "reasonable" surveillance, what gets me is invasion of privacy from people wanting to sell you stuff.

Go to a website and bam, spam in your email the next day. My cell phone co, texting me aboput some new feature... blahh, all these lenders that have acess to your credit score, credit cards sending you checks in the mail that you never requested...

So if my privacy is being violated by all these folks: to me, the government doing its constitutional duty to protect by gathering intelligence on head chopping, homicidal bombing radicals is no big deal.

[N0help4u]

Yeah now they are putting commercials on your cell phone
And making refrigerators that when you run out of milk and ketchup they play a milk commercial and a ketchup commercial
Shopping carts that add up the calories and tell you "you need to put 250 calories worth of stuff back on the shelf" and "you are done shopping".

I can't imagine the gov wanting to listen in on me for more than a minute... Hi mom. Yeah day went okay. Did you go out in the crummy weather today to the symphony?.