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    excon's Avatar
    excon Posts: 21,482, Reputation: 2992
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    #1

    Aug 3, 2007, 07:23 AM
    The Bridge
    Hello:

    So, you want to talk about the bridge... We've been ripped off, People! Money that should have gone into infrastructure went instead into corporate coffers.

    Relax wingers, I'm not going to blame Bush... Ok, never mind, YES I AM.

    He gets the blame because he's the one running the show today, and he's the one who could STOP the rip off if he had a mind to. He doesn't. He's part of the problem.

    The key word is "part". We've been being ripped off for the last... oh, I don't know, 50 years. Our crumbling bridges are the result. YOUR bridges are next. The Dems share the blame if not more so than the Republicans. The recent farm bill (a HUGE corporate give away), is a prime example. Didn't hear about that, did you?

    Please, don't make this a blame game, that so and so didn't do such and such, so Bush shouldn't have done such and such either. WE, the American people have been ripped off by government run by ALL political parties - except the ones who wouldn't have done it - the Libertarians.

    excon
    ScottGem's Avatar
    ScottGem Posts: 64,966, Reputation: 6056
    Computer Expert and Renaissance Man
     
    #2

    Aug 3, 2007, 07:25 AM
    I don't know about money that should have gone to maintaining the infrastructure going into corporate coffers instead. But I do know that what we have spent on the ill advised and unnecessary war in Iraq, could have gone a long way towards the refurbishing of the infrastructure.
    alkalineangel's Avatar
    alkalineangel Posts: 2,391, Reputation: 323
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    #3

    Aug 3, 2007, 07:28 AM
    Amen brother.

    I hate that in my town, instead of focusing efforts onto our three very important bridges which are literally crumbling before our eyes, they are focusing on building two more less important bridges in another area... its aggravating. The three bridges we have are main transportation routes for most of our city, the city across from us, and most travelers... its not right.

    The government is more concerned with filling their pockets than protecting its citizens. Bring on the libertarians... or at least giulliani... he's the only one I trust right now.
    excon's Avatar
    excon Posts: 21,482, Reputation: 2992
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    #4

    Aug 3, 2007, 07:30 AM
    Hello again:

    Of course, OUR bridges have had a recent hurried examination. The paper today rated them from 1 to 100. The bridge I take all the time is rated at 51.1.

    What the HELL does that mean?? Yes, I'm mad.

    excon
    alkalineangel's Avatar
    alkalineangel Posts: 2,391, Reputation: 323
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    #5

    Aug 3, 2007, 07:37 AM
    Oh yes, in our news it said that th two most frequently used bridges (one that I use) are tested annually because they have restrictions on them, and while they are deemed safe, they would not build this type of bridge again as it is not structurally efficient...


    That makes me feel all warm inside... especially since they are getting close to 80/100 years old..
    ETWolverine's Avatar
    ETWolverine Posts: 934, Reputation: 275
    Senior Member
     
    #6

    Aug 3, 2007, 07:39 AM
    In this particular case, I have to agree with you, Excon. Not on plaming Bush, but on blaming 50+ years of the government ripping us off.

    The Constitution provides for the right of the government to raise taxes for only specific purposes:

    Article 1, Section 8 - Powers of Congress

    The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

    To borrow money on the credit of the United States;

    To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes;

    To establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization, and uniform Laws on the subject of Bankruptcies throughout the United States;

    To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures;

    To provide for the Punishment of counterfeiting the Securities and current Coin of the United States;

    To establish Post Offices and Post Roads;

    To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries;

    To constitute Tribunals inferior to the supreme Court;

    To define and punish Piracies and Felonies committed on the high Seas, and Offenses against the Law of Nations;

    To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water;

    To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years;

    To provide and maintain a Navy;

    To make Rules for the Government and Regulation of the land and naval Forces;

    To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;

    To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;

    To exercise exclusive Legislation in all Cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten Miles square) as may, by Cession of particular States, and the acceptance of Congress, become the Seat of the Government of the United States, and to exercise like Authority over all Places purchased by the Consent of the Legislature of the State in which the Same shall be, for the Erection of Forts, Magazines, Arsenals, dock-Yards, and other needful Buildings; And

    To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof.
    So the government has the right to raise taxes for the purpose of creating and maining the military and police, creating and maintaining the postal system (and I would argue that it also includes the phone system as well) and creating and maintaining our roadways.

    It seems to me that the government has failed in its job... in the specific area that our taxes are SUPPOSED to go according to the Constitution.

    I don't blame Bush for this. It isn't the President's job to maintain the roads. It's actually CONGRESS' job. These powers are specifically assigned to CONGRESS in the Constitution, not the President.

    And that doesn't even take into consideration that this has been a poblem since long before Bush came to power.

    I blame the people who didn't do their jobs for the last 50 years.

    Elliot
    speechlesstx's Avatar
    speechlesstx Posts: 1,111, Reputation: 284
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    #7

    Aug 3, 2007, 08:44 AM
    Hey, I didn't want to talk about the bridge, tom started it :D

    Seriously, unlike the Dems I've avoided discussing the bridge on purpose, let 'em at least recover the dead before flinging BS all over the place.

    But you're right, we have been ripped off and these Democrats are proposing new taxes and tax increases about as often as they're launching investigations so the feds can mismanage even more of our money. And your right in that this has been going on for fifty years or more and both parties are to blame. So how you going to fix it?
    excon's Avatar
    excon Posts: 21,482, Reputation: 2992
    Uber Member
     
    #8

    Aug 3, 2007, 08:46 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by speechlesstx
    So how you gonna fix it?
    Hello again, its:

    Elect Ron Paul. He's a Texan, you know.

    excon
    alkalineangel's Avatar
    alkalineangel Posts: 2,391, Reputation: 323
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    #9

    Aug 3, 2007, 08:49 AM
    excon agrees: Cool. However, the difference between Ron Paul and Guilliani are NIGHT & DAY!
    Of course, of course, I wasn't saying they were similar... but Im saying if I don't have a liberatarian in office (which we all know is pretty unlikely), of all the reps/dems out there... Id rather have Giuliani... they are very much night and day... but I least I get a sense that Im not being lied to as often with Rudy... lol... and he has done some good things for New York.
    XenoSapien's Avatar
    XenoSapien Posts: 627, Reputation: 42
    Senior Member
     
    #10

    Aug 3, 2007, 09:02 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by excon
    Hello:

    So, you wanna talk about the bridge..... We've been ripped off, People! Money that should have gone into infrastructure went instead into corporate coffers.

    Relax wingers, I'm not gonna blame Bush....... Ok, never mind, YES I AM.

    He gets the blame because he's the one running the show today, and he's the one who could STOP the rip off if he had a mind to. He doesn't. He's part of the problem.

    The key word is "part". We've been being ripped off for the last......... oh, I dunno, 50 years. Our crumbling bridges are the result. YOUR bridges are next. The Dems share the blame if not more so than the Republicans. The recent farm bill (a HUGE corporate give away), is a prime example. Didn't hear about that, did you?

    Please, don't make this a blame game, that so and so didn't do such and such, so Bush shouldn't have done such and such either. WE, the American people have been ripped off by government run by ALL political parties - except the ones who wouldn't have done it - the Libertarians.

    excon
    No, it was Clintons fault.

    Since the democrat juggernaut of hatred has been deployed in the early 90's, it has only served to distract opposition parties from concentrating on important tasks.

    Since the Clintons demanded so much attention to their self-absorbed, small-minded and shallow concepts, they caused the bridge in Minnesota to fall because it was more important that people focus on the Clinton machine instead.

    This is how silly the dems and the left have become, folks.

    XenoSapien
    Dark_crow's Avatar
    Dark_crow Posts: 1,405, Reputation: 196
    Ultra Member
     
    #11

    Aug 3, 2007, 09:16 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by excon
    Hello:

    So, you wanna talk about the bridge..... We've been ripped off, People! Money that should have gone into infrastructure went instead into corporate coffers.

    Relax wingers, I'm not gonna blame Bush....... Ok, never mind, YES I AM.

    He gets the blame because he's the one running the show today, and he's the one who could STOP the rip off if he had a mind to. He doesn't. He's part of the problem.

    The key word is "part". We've been being ripped off for the last......... oh, I dunno, 50 years. Our crumbling bridges are the result. YOUR bridges are next. The Dems share the blame if not more so than the Republicans. The recent farm bill (a HUGE corporate give away), is a prime example. Didn't hear about that, did you?

    Please, don't make this a blame game, that so and so didn't do such and such, so Bush shouldn't have done such and such either. WE, the American people have been ripped off by government run by ALL political parties - except the ones who wouldn't have done it - the Libertarians.

    excon
    I think this is another good example of why the private sector should be maintaining our highways and bridges…
    speechlesstx's Avatar
    speechlesstx Posts: 1,111, Reputation: 284
    Ultra Member
     
    #12

    Aug 3, 2007, 09:24 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by excon
    Hello again, its:

    Elect Ron Paul. He's a Texan, you know.

    excon
    Really? He's a Texan. I thought that after 8 years of Bush that would be a liability :D

    Surely you've heard there are other Texans that have gotten a lot of talk in this race, Gov. Rick "Goodhair" Perry as the second half of the ticket. That's one Texan - and Republican - I'd rather NOT make it that far. Kay Bailey Hutchinson and John Cornyn have also gotten a little attention in that area. Ron Paul can't seem to get any respect beyond the occasional letter to the editor.
    Choux's Avatar
    Choux Posts: 3,047, Reputation: 376
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    #13

    Aug 3, 2007, 12:19 PM
    Today, the local news had the report card on Chicagoland's bridges. In the city proper, 19% of bridges need attention. In Will County southwest of Cook County, over 50% of bridges are not sufficient! (large population growth in the last couple of decades); they can't hold the weight of current traffic load!!

    The results from surrounding counties were pretty bad, too, I don't remember their exact stats.

    Many of the City of Chicago's bridges are over 100 years old.

    There is a huge organized crime influence in Chicago in the construction industry. I"m not sure how that effects funding of projects and business.

    Every few years, we have a "el" run off the tracks and crash onto the street below. Those curves.

    There is lots of old infrastructure, but thanks to the Chicago Fire, not as old as some major cities.

    Bottom line... *no one* cares, in my opinion.
    Wondergirl's Avatar
    Wondergirl Posts: 38,900, Reputation: 5431
    Jobs & Parenting Expert
     
    #14

    Aug 3, 2007, 12:36 PM
    I work in a government building that was finally finished in 1991--after the general contractor absconded with nearly $1M in building funds that should have been subcontractors' money. And the subcontractors left something to be desired too. The floors aren't level, the ADA compliance is not compliant, the defective smoke detector system had been bought out of a warehouse where the system was waiting to be junked (but someone got rich reselling the system to our g.c.), various parts of the ceiling have caved in periodically because of substitution of materials and framework, yadda yadda yadda.

    I can only imagine what the history of the Minneapolis bridge is. Oh, and stay away from Chicago. The ten busiest bridges in this city (along with 10% of the bridges in Illinois) are said to be structurally deficient.
    inthebox's Avatar
    inthebox Posts: 787, Reputation: 179
    Senior Member
     
    #15

    Aug 3, 2007, 01:49 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by excon
    Hello:

    So, you wanna talk about the bridge..... We've been ripped off, People! Money that should have gone into infrastructure went instead into corporate coffers.

    Relax wingers, I'm not gonna blame Bush....... Ok, never mind, YES I AM.

    He gets the blame because he's the one running the show today, and he's the one who could STOP the rip off if he had a mind to. He doesn't. He's part of the problem.

    The key word is "part". We've been being ripped off for the last......... oh, I dunno, 50 years. Our crumbling bridges are the result. YOUR bridges are next. The Dems share the blame if not more so than the Republicans. The recent farm bill (a HUGE corporate give away), is a prime example. Didn't hear about that, did you?

    Please, don't make this a blame game, that so and so didn't do such and such, so Bush shouldn't have done such and such either. WE, the American people have been ripped off by government run by ALL political parties - except the ones who wouldn't have done it - the Libertarians.

    excon

    Agree - congress [ that determines appropriations - not the President ] and both parties are at fault.

    House Passes "Carbon Copy" Farm Bill

    TCS Analysis of FY2008 Senate Military Construction and Veteran Affairs Appropriations Bill






    Grace and Peace
    Dark_crow's Avatar
    Dark_crow Posts: 1,405, Reputation: 196
    Ultra Member
     
    #16

    Aug 3, 2007, 02:05 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by Dark_crow
    I think this is another good example of why the private sector should be maintaining our highways and bridges…

    Comments on this post
    Choux agrees: You mean The Mafia? That's who's in the construction business in the east and mid west. :)
    Hay, the Mafia saved Italy once:D
    ordinaryguy's Avatar
    ordinaryguy Posts: 1,790, Reputation: 596
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    #17

    Aug 3, 2007, 02:35 PM
    How about we measure the cost of the Iraq war in "bridge equivalents"?
    National Priorities Project--Cost of Iraq War
    It is a pretty interesting website, but I do have to take exception to the inferences about what "we could have provided" with the money if we hadn't spent it on the war. War spending is "off-budget" (emergency appropriations) and deficit financed, so as a matter of cash flow, the money we're spending on the war isn't coming from our taxes, it's coming from foreigners (and foreign central banks) who buy the US government's debt instruments (notes and bonds), with dollars that we paid to them for oil and cars and other things. As a political matter, there is no way in hell that we would have spent anywhere near that amount of money on bridges or any of the things on the "compared to" list, so what would actually be different if we hadn't spent it on the war is that we would now be less indebted to foreigners, and less dependent on their gullibility to finance our profligate ways. That's not safe bridges for every city in America, maybe, but it's something.
    tomder55's Avatar
    tomder55 Posts: 1,742, Reputation: 344
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    #18

    Aug 4, 2007, 05:35 AM
    I can tell you from a local perspective that I have been part of a group in my village who wants a 3 way traffic light turned into a 4 way. A whole lot of money gets wasted during the process that is non-construction related. Locally the Tappan-zee Bridge spanning the NY Thruway has been in structural disrepair for a long time. Politicians are reluctutant to sell the idea of new infrastructure due to costs so they patch with duct tape until a disaster like the one in Minn. Occures.

    I think there is a consensus here that gvt. Across the board is lacking . But try being a pol. And proposing a major infrastructure initiatlve . Then when you get it approved ;see if it doesn't become the next Big Dig.
    Dark_crow's Avatar
    Dark_crow Posts: 1,405, Reputation: 196
    Ultra Member
     
    #19

    Aug 5, 2007, 08:33 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by excon
    Hello:

    So, you wanna talk about the bridge..... We've been ripped off, People! Money that should have gone into infrastructure went instead into corporate coffers.

    Relax wingers, I'm not gonna blame Bush....... Ok, never mind, YES I AM.

    He gets the blame because he's the one running the show today, and he's the one who could STOP the rip off if he had a mind to. He doesn't. He's part of the problem.

    The key word is "part". We've been being ripped off for the last......... oh, I dunno, 50 years. Our crumbling bridges are the result. YOUR bridges are next. The Dems share the blame if not more so than the Republicans. The recent farm bill (a HUGE corporate give away), is a prime example. Didn't hear about that, did you?

    Please, don't make this a blame game, that so and so didn't do such and such, so Bush shouldn't have done such and such either. WE, the American people have been ripped off by government run by ALL political parties - except the ones who wouldn't have done it - the Libertarians.

    excon
    Just got a bulletin intercept from The Mujahideen to Al-Qaeda…”HURRY, we must attack America NOW, before its infrastructure collapses”. :D

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