Pilot went out, no problem relighting. BUT when I turn up the thermostat, the flame gets out of control and escapes from the two protective doors. It has started melting the plastic on the outside of the tank around the drain valve.

It seems very much as if a maintenance visit is long overdue. Your burners could be worn, and if so will allow the flames to go where they want rather than where they should. See if friends will recommend a reliable engineer they have used.

When the burners wear out the gas does not burn as it should and the result is often a dangerous increase in carbon monoxide output, and that can be FATAL. It doesn't smell, but it replaces the oxygen in the bloodstream and you die with a ruddy glow on your cheeks. CO1 combines with heamoglobin in your red blood corpuscles twenty-six times more readily than O2 does.

Please treat this as urgent and life threatening.

M:)RGANITE

The unit is only 5 years old. How often should maintenance be done and what exactly should be done for maintenance.

Do you have any other gas appliances, and are they working OK? I hardly see it likely for much to go wrong except the outside pressure regulator sticking resulting in excessive pressure. I would almost be afraid to tell you to turn another one on. Perhaps the best thing is to call the gas company. You don't want to pay a contractor $100 to come out and tell you the gas company's regulator is bad.

It sounds to me like it may be out of adjustment. If it had been working right, I don't see the screw turning itself. I am afraid this is a job for a professional.

Ordinarily, hot water heaters go for years and years needing no more than a new thermocouple. If you follow Tom's advice on flushing them, they should go even longer.

Thinking some more about this, it could be a draft problem, especially if you have a forced draft. Check your vent carefully. Do you not hear a small blower which you used to when the gas was on?

My water heater is next to my furnace. Gas line is split between them. Furnace is running just dandy. The thermocouple seems fine. The flames don't want to stay on the burner. On the outside of the tank there is a lot of melted plastic and black soot/singe marks on the metal from the flames escaping.

What color is the flame. Yellow? Yellow/red? Blue? Blue/yellow?

It's blue. I have seen a little red/orange when it shoots out. But mostly blue.

Then the air adjustment's set OK.

Labman,

You are both disingenuous and dangeorus. You might have had a heater twenty-five years without any maintenance done on it, but it is recommended by the industry that they are checked annually. Carbon monoxide is a killer. That is not disinformation. I respectfull;y suggest that you forget your own anexcdotal evidence when delaing with matters that could cost lives.

A landlord has recently been charged with murder after the death of his tenants from CO1 poisoining from an unmaintained gas water heater.

Look at this site, rewad the cases, and then you shou8ld a[pologize to me and to th epersaon to whom you gave such atrocious and dangerous advice, and you hsou8ld remove your advice from the public forum and refrain from offering your opinions on matters of such importance as life, disabiluty, and death.

http://www.carbonmonoxidekills.com/carbon_monoxide_inthenews.htm

--------------------

Just a few of the multitudes of cases on the site:

Landlord may face civil charges in death
By Judith Scherr Daily Planet Staff (11-30-00)

The 17-year-old Indian immigrant died Nov. 24, 1999 from carbon monoxide poisoning in an apartment at 2020 Bancroft Way owned by L.B. Reddy Real Estate Company.

“...the causes of her death were exposure to fumes from a dangerous, defective, and negligently-maintained gas heating system at 2020 Bancroft Way and the failure of defendant Lakireddy Bali Reddy to secure prompt medical attention for her after such exposure,” according to the suit.
--------------------

Stacey Rodgers has penned Our Children That Live In Our Heart as she bids to come to terms with the death of 10-year-old Dominic at their West Yorkshire home. Tomorrow is the first anniversary of the tragedy and Stacey has joined forces with British Gas in a bid to make every other parent in the country aware of the potential dangers of CO – known as the silent killer.

\Carbon monoxide clears school
Benton County Daily Record, AR - 21 hours ago
BENTONVILLE — Carbon monoxide exposure forced evacuation of Washington Junior High School on Thursday and sent more than 50 students to the emergency room.. .

100 evaucated in carbon monoxide leak
Allston-Brighton TAB, MA - 14 hours ago
An single alarm saved the lives of more than 100 Allston residents early Thursday morning after it alerted sleeping tenants to a deadly carbon monoxide leak.. .

Carbon monoxide likely cause of couple's death
Seattle Post Intelligencer - Feb 10, 2005

Students taken to hospital after carbon monoxide leak
Boston Globe - Feb 10, 2005

Students Evacuated After Carbon Monoxide Leak Boston Channel.com
Allston tenants saved by CO detector Boston Globe

Sixteen residents of a Holyoke housing complex are lucky to be alive following their escape this week from apartments where deadly carbon monoxide gas had...

Carbon monoxide sends 16 to hospital The Republican
2 remain in hospital in monoxide poisoning The Republican

Carbon monoxide suspected as couple found dead
TheNewsTribune.com, WA - Feb 10, 2005

Two boys found suffering from presumed carbon monoxide poisoning
DetNews.com, MI - Feb 8, 2005

Support builds for mandatory carbon monoxide detectors
Gloucester Daily Times, MA - Feb 8, 2005

The sense of urgency comes after a 7-year-old Plymouth girl died from carbon monoxide poisoning last month when snowdrifts blocked a heating vent.. .

Firefighters look to douse carbon monoxide calls
Green Bay Press Gazette, WI - Feb 10, 2005

UTC Student Dies Of Carbon Monoxide Poisoning
The Chattanoogan, TN - Feb 9, 2005

A UTC student apparently died accidentally of carbon monoxide poisoning while talking on a cell phone while her car was running in her garage.. .

Carbon Monoxide Forces Residents from Apartments
WTOP, D.C. - Feb 8, 2005

Children Overcome by Carbon Monoxide
WXYZ, MI - Feb 9, 2005

Boys Waiting In Car Overcome By Carbon Monoxide

DETROIT Two children are listed in critical condition after suffering what Detroit police say was carbon monoxide poisoning in their garage.. .

16 evacuated in Holyoke carbon monoxide leak
The Republican, MA - Feb 8, 2005

Older Couple Found Dead From Apparent Carbon Monoxide Poisoning
KOMO, WA - Feb 9, 2005

Carbon Monoxide Leak Triggers Evacuation
Boston Channel.com, MA - Feb 9, 2005

Five children die of carbon monoxide poisoning
NORWALK -- Defense attorneys for a Pico Rivera father facing five counts of murder in the carbon monoxide deaths of five of his six children asked for additional time Wednesday in Norwalk Court to prepare more motions.

Husband killed by carbon monoxide
A woman in Lewis County told Hamrick Monday that Saturday's destruction took place just a month after carbon monoxide poisoning killed her husband at their home. Now, she's left literally picking up the pieces of her home.

And so forth ad nauseum!

Please take a long pause before you set about insouciantly dispensing advice on matters of which you not only know too little to be helpful, but in which you are dangerous and potentially fatal. Would you pay $100.00 to endure the safety of your family and pets? Your advice should carry a government health warning. I am more than a little surpised at you because you seem like a nice and intelligent fellow.

Disinformation? Absolutely not!

M:)RGANITE

You really ought to refrain from offering advice on important matters of which you have no training and experience. I am sure you mean well, but your advice is downright dangerous.

http://www.carbonmonoxidekills.com/c..._inthenews.htm

Almost 30 deaths occur annually in the British Isles alone from incidents involving carbon monoxide.

Dr Kim Howells, British Consumer Affairs Minister, has launched a new safety awareness campaign to warn of the dangers posed by carbon monoxide in the home.

Less than half of those questioned could list the possible causes of a build up of carbon monoxide or knew the warning signs of carbon monoxide in their homes.

An indoor exhibition unit is to tour the UK warning of the dangers of carbon monoxide; and a new resource pack about the safety of heating systems for use by safety professionals.

Dr Howells was "staggered" by the lack of knowledge among the general population. He said: "The message is simple - if you haven't had your coal fire chimney swept for years, or you've no idea when your gas boiler was last serviced, don't wait until it's too late. Take action now."

Between 1990 and 1999 in the UK, more than 500 people have died of carbon monoxide poisoning as a result of faulty domestic heating systems, including water heaters. What emerges from a study of the casualties is that:

Older people and home-owners are at the highest risk;
Older people are ten times more likely to die than students;
Those using non-gas fuels are also far more likely to fall victim to carbon monoxide poisoning, mainly as people are less aware of the hazard of carbon monoxide with non-gas fuels; and
Non-gas fuels such as coal, oil and paraffin can be just as deadly as gas - they account for 41% of all carbon monoxide deaths.

Further advice and information

British Gas posters and leaflets about the symptoms of carbon monoxide are going to GP surgeries to help alert people.
Free advice on gas safety issues is available from the HSE gas safety advice line on 0800 300 363.

Advice

The Department of Trade and Industry's advice for the public is:

get your appliances checked for safety every year by a competent engineer (make sure he/she is CORGI registered.

If you have a gas appliance

` ensure your home is properly ventilated - never block vents;
` make sure all chimneys and flues are regularly swept and kept clear;
` CO detectors are a valuable warning device, but not a substitute for regular servicing of heating systems; and
` only buy carbon monoxide detectors that comply with BS 7860; and
` if anyone suspects carbon monoxide poisoning, they should: switch off all heating appliances; ventilate the property; and contact the emergency hotline

Failure to recognise the high risk of permanet disability, brain damage, and fatality is the biggest barrier to making homes safe. Any change in the nature or direction of the flames in a gas appliance should be treated with the utmost cautioon and professional help engaged IMMEDIATELY.

M:mad:RGANITE - who has witnessed the effects of CO1 poisoning too often to ever take it lightly, or to take risks with the lives of others, by doling out stupid advice, dammit!

I must reiterate the advice I first gave you. It seems that your burner is malfuncitoning. Please have it checked by a registered and certified gas engineer in the interests of your own safety.

You have been given some poor, even dangerous, advice, but not by me.


Please ensure your family is safe!

M:)

Red/orange flame indicates improper combustion. Significant for CO1! You not only have a significant fire risk, but a carmon monoxide gas poisoning risk also. Either could be fatal. Shut it down and get a certified gas engineer to inspect it.

M:)

I invite anybody with any doubt about my advice to see https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/heatin...ems-40966.html
You will see Northern Heat, a true professional we are lucky to have here, is giving about the same advice as me.

I also suggest anybody that thinks the problem is worn out burners to post that to that thread too.

CENTERS FOR DISEASE CONTROL AND PREVENTION
WINTER HOME HEATING HAZARDS
Thursday, October 26, 2006, 12:00 PM

This afternoon, we'll be coming to you to discuss some of the winter home heating hazards that are experienced by most Americans … a joint presentation by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, the Consumer Product Safety Commission and the Air Conditioning Contractors of America, highlighting a silent, insidious killer, and a silent public health issue: carbon monoxide poisoning … change the batteries in their carbon monoxide detectors, an important part of the overall preventative approach to carbon monoxide poisoning … We're all familiar with trip and fall hazards, but not enough of us are familiar with carbon monoxide … carbon monoxide … is a silent and insidious killer. It's colorless. It's odorless. It's poisonous. We lose almost 500 Americans every year to [death from] carbon monoxide inhalation, five times as many as we lose to West Nile virus. Non fatal carbon monoxide poisonings, the ones that don't kill people but make them sick send an estimated 15,200 people to emergency departments every year … exposures to carbon monoxide can cause headaches, dizziness, weakness, vomiting, chest pain, confusion, and in some cases, long lasting neurologic damage … Faulty gas furnaces cause more carbon monoxide poisoning than any other source … whenever you burn fuel, you may be creating carbon monoxide. And … you may be exposed to excessive levels of carbon monoxide. Not only gas furnaces need our attention, but gas burning appliances, gas or wood burning stoves, fireplaces, and generators, when they're used in enclosed or semi enclosed spaces … these are preventable deaths, preventable injuries … and taking simple steps can protect you, your family and your pets from carbon monoxide poisoning.

[G]et your heating ventilating and air conditioning system serviced by a qualified technician. That technician should look not only at the furnace, but at water heaters and any other gas, oil or coal burning appliances every year... appliances that are not working properly are more likely to cause carbon monoxide poisoning … [Glenn Hourahan from ACCA] ACCA is the trade association representing the contractors in the U.S. who install, service, and maintain heating, ventilation and air conditioning equipment. I'm here to support the message coming both out of CDC and CPSC … and to reiterate, the requirements and the necessity to have your home heating systems inspected annually to ensure that they're operating properly. Proper operation will ensure that carbon monoxide is not generating excess levels as well as to ensure that carbon monoxide that is generated within the combustion process is vented. So reiterating the message that has all ready been spoken we strongly encourage that home owners engage the services of qualified contractors to have technicians come to their homes, to have their systems inspected, to make sure they're operating properly, to make sure the venting systems are performing properly. To ensure that other equipment and systems that might be connected to a common vent are working properly. … This might be water heaters.

When having a contractor, a technician come to your home, there are certain things that this technician is doing and there are certain things that consumers should check ensure are being done. One of the most important things that a contractor will do is ensure that the heat exchange does not have any cracks in it. This will prevent carbon monoxide from being directly vented from the combustion process and released into the occupied space.

They are also going to be looking directly at the flue and the venting pipes to ensure that they are sound, no rust, no corrosion, no wholes and no evidence that they might soon be occurring. They will look at the burner assembly as well as the blower assembly to ensure that they are going to be - that the equipment can operate properly and that complete combustion will occur.

There are also a number of measurements and adjustments and cleaning that will be done within the various heating systems and ventilation systems to ensure that they will perform properly. While in the building, a qualified contractor will also look beyond just the equipment itself.

They'll be looking for situations that could cause a very dangerous build up of carbon monoxide in a home … what's called flame rollouts, so the flame on your burner can roll out and cause incomplete combustion.

You can also have backdrafting, either down a chimney as well as down the vent flue from the combustion equipment itself, as a result of pressurization problems. So the contractor will be looking for these situations … it should be recognized that doing this on an annual basis is a good idea, because not only does it reduce carbon monoxide possibility of entering the home, at the same time, it leads to better equipment performance, and reduced fuel use, which is always good as well.

Yes, we strongly encourage that consumers and homeowners look for NATE, North American Technician Excellence, look for those who are certified by them as having technicians who pass a minimum skill set. And they are at www.natex.org.

You can contact CDC through 404-639-3286. Or the National Center for Environmental health web site. There is very excellent information on carbon monoxide exposures and poisoning all of this information and more is also available on the Consumer Product Safety Commission website.

The only way to know exactly what it is is to have the unit inspected. It is not a problem for a chatroom. The following is from the CDC, who you will recognise, and the discussion from whicht he information is abstracted took place one week ago.


This afternoon, we'll be coming to you to discuss some of the winter home heating hazards that are experienced by most Americans … a joint presentation by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, the Consumer Product Safety Commission and the Air Conditioning Contractors of America, highlighting a silent, insidious killer, and a silent public health issue: carbon monoxide poisoning … change the batteries in their carbon monoxide detectors, an important part of the overall preventative approach to carbon monoxide poisoning … We're all familiar with trip and fall hazards, but not enough of us are familiar with carbon monoxide … carbon monoxide … is a silent and insidious killer. It's colorless. It's odorless. It's poisonous. We lose almost 500 Americans every year to [death from] carbon monoxide inhalation, five times as many as we lose to West Nile virus. Non fatal carbon monoxide poisonings, the ones that don't kill people but make them sick send an estimated 15,200 people to emergency departments every year … exposures to carbon monoxide can cause headaches, dizziness, weakness, vomiting, chest pain, confusion, and in some cases, long lasting neurologic damage … Faulty gas furnaces cause more carbon monoxide poisoning than any other source … whenever you burn fuel, you may be creating carbon monoxide. And … you may be exposed to excessive levels of carbon monoxide. Not only gas furnaces need our attention, but gas burning appliances, gas or wood burning stoves, fireplaces, and generators, when they're used in enclosed or semi enclosed spaces … these are preventable deaths, preventable injuries … and taking simple steps can protect you, your family and your pets from carbon monoxide poisoning.

[G]et your heating ventilating and air conditioning system serviced by a qualified technician. That technician should look not only at the furnace, but at water heaters and any other gas, oil or coal burning appliances every year ... appliances that are not working properly are more likely to cause carbon monoxide poisoning … [Glenn Hourahan from ACCA] ACCA is the trade association representing the contractors in the U.S. who install, service, and maintain heating, ventilation and air conditioning equipment. I'm here to support the message coming both out of CDC and CPSC … and to reiterate, the requirements and the necessity to have your home heating systems inspected annually to ensure that they're operating properly. Proper operation will ensure that carbon monoxide is not generating excess levels as well as to ensure that carbon monoxide that is generated within the combustion process is vented. So reiterating the message that has all ready been spoken we strongly encourage that home owners engage the services of qualified contractors to have technicians come to their homes, to have their systems inspected, to make sure they're operating properly, to make sure the venting systems are performing properly. To ensure that other equipment and systems that might be connected to a common vent are working properly. … This might be water heaters.

When having a contractor, a technician come to your home, there are certain things that this technician is doing and there are certain things that consumers should check ensure are being done. One of the most important things that a contractor will do is ensure that the heat exchange does not have any cracks in it. This will prevent carbon monoxide from being directly vented from the combustion process and released into the occupied space.

They are also going to be looking directly at the flue and the venting pipes to ensure that they are sound, no rust, no corrosion, no wholes and no evidence that they might soon be occurring. They will look at the burner assembly as well as the blower assembly to ensure that they are going to be - that the equipment can operate properly and that complete combustion will occur.

There are also a number of measurements and adjustments and cleaning that will be done within the various heating systems and ventilation systems to ensure that they will perform properly. While in the building, a qualified contractor will also look beyond just the equipment itself.

They'll be looking for situations that could cause a very dangerous build up of carbon monoxide in a home … what's called flame rollouts, so the flame on your burner can roll out and cause incomplete combustion.

You can also have backdrafting, either down a chimney as well as down the vent flue from the combustion equipment itself, as a result of pressurization problems. So the contractor will be looking for these situations … it should be recognized that doing this on an annual basis is a good idea, because not only does it reduce carbon monoxide possibility of entering the home, at the same time, it leads to better equipment performance, and reduced fuel use, which is always good as well.

Yes, we strongly encourage that consumers and homeowners look for NATE, North American Technician Excellence, look for those who are certified by them as having technicians who pass a minimum skill set. And they are at www.natex.org.

You can contact CDC through 404-639-3286. Or the National Center for Environmental health web site. There is very excellent information on carbon monoxide exposures and poisoning all of this information and more is also available on the Consumer Product Safety Commission website.

Does the burner or the interior of the burn chamber appear rusted?

Are there white chalky deposits in the bottom of the burn chamber?

An improperly vented hot water heater will cause condensation to drip back down the vent pipe and rust out the burner, and if the burner is degraded, flames will seek the closest source of air, which is the opening where you light the pilot light.

If there are white chalky deposits in the burn chamber, then it was vented into an unlined chimney, and the lime in the mortar is leaching out and dripping back into the burn chamber, which will also degrade the burner.

If either is the case, then the tank should be replaced and proper venting installed.

I think the real issue here is that you should refrain from offering up advice outside your area of expertise.

At some point, Labman, your over exaggerated sense of hubris needs to take a step back in favor of qualified experts.

You wouldn't be in the pickle you are in right now if you had simply re-directed the poster to a more appropriate forum from the outset.

OK guys! Scale it back. Looks like Northern Heat might have nailed it.

" Check the core of the water heater it may have sooted up. Also fresh air comes in from the bottom of the water heater, a round hole just under the burner, this could be blocked with rust and stuff, look for other openings or screens if this is whats called a sealed combustion water heater."

This might be a venting or a air flow problem. In my area most of our appliances are electric so I've stayed out of this exchange but it's getting rather deep and it's not good for the askers to witness two experts bickering.
I don't care who's right or wrong. Morganite, you've voiced your concerns, No need for insults. Lab, give it a rest and move on.
Guys, this isn't the Religion or Relationships page where emotions run high. We give out technical advice. Let's act like technicians. Now, let's cool it before the mods or Admin stop by with a big stick. I consider both of you competent and well versed in your fields. Let's see what Northern Heats advice does toward solving this problem. Regards to you both and fa Gawds sake kiss and make up. Tom

I don't know, Tom, considering that approaching Labman privately over bad or dangerous advice, as I once tried to do, went over like a fart in church, I'd say that Labman having his butt publicly flogged was long overdue.

Just my 2pence.