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meltrol · Feb 7, 2012, 06:19 AM

I need to replace a toilet water supply valve in a rental unit I own. I took a quick look at it yesterday to determine if I need to buy a threaded or sweat type valve. It looks like it's probably the original valve which goes back to 1970 or so. There's 1/2" copper coming out of the wall but then it looks like it goes in a chrome sleeve and then to the valve. I've never seen this setup before. Almost looks like the chrome sleeve is part of the valve. Is the chrome sleeve sweated on the copper tubing? If so, can I simply un-sweat it and sweat on a nice, new, chrome 1/4 turn ball-valve?
Thanks!
Bill

massplumber2008 · Feb 7, 2012, 06:49 AM

Hi Meltrol

That is a toilet shutoff with extension and bell flange (see image) and yes, it is sweat on... ;)

Here, pull the bell flange out of the way and then use some sandcloth to clean the solder joint really well... apply soldering flux to the joint and then heat the valve about 1-2" along the length of the valve nearest the solder joint. When the solder starts to spit/bubble a bit, heat the solder joint a little more and then twist and pull the valve off.

Apply a little more flux to the pipe and then heat and wipe the pipe clean of solder. You can now apply that 1/4 turn valve you want (or a compression valve... either one works).

If you decide you want to install another valve like you took off you can do it but there is a trick or two we should go over first!

Good luck!

Mark

meltrol · Feb 7, 2012, 06:59 AM

Wow, that was a quick response... thank you so much. I think I'll un-sweat that chrome extension, wipe the excess solder off the copper tubing and solder on a new valve. I may have to extend the existing copper tubing a bit to get the new valve in the right position away from the wall. I'm not real concerned that the tubing coming out of the wall will be copper vs chrome.
Thanks again!

speedball1 · Feb 7, 2012, 07:22 AM

I'm not real concerned that the tubing coming out of the wall will be copper vs chrome.

Trust me! It's copper. Why not wipe the solder clean and install a compression angle stop? Much easier to replace then a soldered valve. Good luck, Tom

meltrol · Feb 7, 2012, 07:39 AM

Thanks Speedball... I may just do that, (compression valve). I'm heading for Home Depot right now and plan to pick up both a sweat and compression ball valve. Then I'll return the one I don't use.

ma0641 · Feb 8, 2012, 12:30 PM

Agree with Tom, compression is a lot simpler. That said, make sure the pipe is very well cleaned and smooth or the compression ring will be hard to seat and seal any leaks. Good luck.

meltrol · Feb 8, 2012, 01:34 PM

The only reason I wouldn't use the compression valve is if I find the copper tubing ends too close to the wall after I un-sweat the old shut-off valve chrome extension. In that case I'll extend the copper a bit with a sweat coupling and a short piece of copper and then simply solder the new ball-valve on at the same time. I'll use a paint can lid with a hole in it to shield the wall from torch if necessary.
Thanks!

ballengerb1 · Feb 8, 2012, 01:58 PM

One thing we forgot to mention is you must close your main supply and drain the system down before you can unsweat this fitting. After closing the main open several faucets and flush the toilet. When you open the supply tube going to the tank have a cup ready to catch the excess water and then also open the valve you are replacing.

meltrol · Feb 8, 2012, 02:29 PM

Yes, the water supply must be shut off first and the supply pipe (copper tubing) drained. This rental unit of mine is in a condo complex of 8 buildings. When it was built each building was plumbed as if it was a single house. Consequently, I have to shut off the water to all 12 condo units in my building to shut off my water... STUPID design goes back to the 70s. Then I have to drain-down the water level in the whole building, using one of the building's hose bibs until I get the water level down to where no water flows from the toilet supply line. Fortunately my unit is on the second floor (top floor) so it doesn't take too long to drain down. I borrowed a large T-handle wrench for shutting off the water, which I've done before when I replaced the water heater. I've also informed all the building residents that the water will be shut off so I can make the repair. Tomorrow is the big day! I will work as fast as I can so not to inconvenience the other building residents more than necessary.

hkstroud · Feb 8, 2012, 03:33 PM

Aluminum foil fold in half twice so that you have four layers make a nice heat shield. Can be stuck to the wall (or joist) with thumb tack to hold it in place.

speedball1 · Feb 8, 2012, 03:36 PM

Hey Meltrol,
I was going to point out how much easier compression were to work with then sweat fittings but you did a much better job in your post. Good luck in whatever you decide.
Bye the way. From the 60's, in each condo building we waterpiped each unit has its own shutoff. Cheers, Tom

ma0641 · Feb 8, 2012, 04:07 PM

Interesting reading your comment about 1 valve for the condo. I am rehabbing a condo for a customer and she wanted the HW heater replaced. Last week I called my plumber friend who was going to do the work and when he got there called me an asked where the water shut off was. OH-OH, NONE on the HW heater or for the condo. We had to shut off the water for the whole building! Needless to say, there is one on the HW heater now.

meltrol · Feb 9, 2012, 02:18 PM

Gentlemen,
The job is done and it went very smoothly... no surprises! In fact, I replaced both supply vales in both bathrooms in the condo. I pulled the stem out of both valves before I unsoldered them so the residual water could drain out completely, making it easier and quicker to unsolder. As you guys suggested, I went with a compression fitting in both bathrooms... so freeeeekin simple! I reused the original escutcheons because they fit perfectly and completely hide the copper tubing. I had the water back on in the building in 45 minutes. Thanks for all your advice including the aluminum foil as a heat shield. I'll remember that in the future. This time I simply used some sheet steel I had on hand. I also leared the hard way about the water heater when I replaced it a few years ago... no shut-off valve. Now it has a ball-valve and a union on the inlet and outlet side. I can totally isolate the boiler if necessary.
Thanks again!
Bill

speedball1 · Feb 9, 2012, 03:52 PM

Thanks for the updeate. Glad we could help. If you need us in the future you know where to come. Cheers, Tom