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    bigdog911's Avatar
    bigdog911 Posts: 2, Reputation: 1
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    #1

    Nov 4, 2007, 05:50 AM
    Storage Tank or Bladder Tank?
    We just had a new well put in. The well person installed a 220 gallon storage tank (not bladder) when we turn on our sprinkler system our submersible well pump cuts in every 50seconds. We are using approximately 16 gallons per minute. Should the well person have put in a bladder tank instead of a storage tank. Our main purpose for putting in a 220 gallon tank was so that the pump would not start up all the time and burn out. Please let us know the difference between the two kinds of tanks and which would be the best for our situation. Any suggestions?
    speedball1's Avatar
    speedball1 Posts: 29,301, Reputation: 1939
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    #2

    Nov 4, 2007, 06:04 AM
    Should the well person have put in a bladder tank instead of a storage tank. Our main purpose for putting in a 220 gallon tank was so that the pump would not start up all the time and burn out. Please let us know the difference between the two kinds of tanks and which would be the best for our situation. Any suggestions?
    Both tanks perform the same function. To compress air and maintain pressure in the system. It sounds like your tank has lost the cushion of air and is kicking on every time a draw's made. If there's a snifter valve on top of the tank open it up. If water spews out the tank needs to be drained and recharged. I think once you recharge the tank everything will go back to normal. Good luck, Tom
    bigdog911's Avatar
    bigdog911 Posts: 2, Reputation: 1
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    #3

    Nov 4, 2007, 06:22 AM
    The tank the well company installed was not a blatter tank, is this what he should have installed? Just to recap, we draw 16 gallons and the pump turns on{aprox 50 seconds} and runs for about 15 seconds. There is a float valve approximately half way up. There is no air valve on the top.
    jlisenbe's Avatar
    jlisenbe Posts: 4,417, Reputation: 156
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    #4

    Nov 4, 2007, 08:03 AM
    Is this storage tank situated high up somewhere or on ground level? It sounds like you might be describing a gravity feed system which would have a float valve that kicks the pump on when the water level drops below a certain level. ONce the level rises back up, the valve cuts the pump off. If it is a pressure tank, then there has to be some way of recharging the air in the tank, but it sure seems awfully large to be a pressurized tank.

    Your description sounds a little strange. If you have a pump that can basically deliver 16 gallons in 15 seconds, then you have a hoss of a pump. You could use a bladder tank, but at a rate of almost twenty gallons a minute of usage, your pump is going to cycle frequently. It sounds like the well company anticipated this and tried to solve it with a large tank which would should have a larger draw down than only 16 gallons. No offense, but I just think you are missing something somewhere in your description.
    speedball1's Avatar
    speedball1 Posts: 29,301, Reputation: 1939
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    #5

    Nov 4, 2007, 10:15 AM
    Now you got me wondering. If this tank is a storage and not a pressure tank as I first thought then why wasn't a bladder tank installed next to the pump?
    jlisenbe's Avatar
    jlisenbe Posts: 4,417, Reputation: 156
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    #6

    Nov 4, 2007, 11:22 AM
    Bigdog, I think Speedball's issue is this: What is generating pressure? If you have a 220 gallon storage tank with a shut-off valve on it, that usually describes a tank which is mounted high somewhere to generate pressure by gravity. If it's not, then there has to be a mechanism somewhere to pressurize the water such as a bladder type of pressure tank, probably 30 gallon or so.
    addes2's Avatar
    addes2 Posts: 1, Reputation: 1
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    #7

    Feb 22, 2011, 12:28 PM
    Firstly, in order for the tank to produce enough pressure to supply water without the pump coming on it must be at least 29 feet above ground level. Secondly, BigDog911 has exactly what he is stating: a big, empty storage tank. No wires to communicate with a pump, no bladder. I know all this because I just spent a year with a 305 gallon storage tank and have all his issues as well.
    What he and I would love to know is: Is there a method of building or producing a bladder into a plain storage tank?
    hkstroud's Avatar
    hkstroud Posts: 11,929, Reputation: 899
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    #8

    Feb 22, 2011, 02:52 PM

    Addes2
    You have piggy backed onto a 5 year old post. Please start you own thread and state your problems and situation.

    Do you have a storage tank which would have a float control which turns the pump on and off and would also be open to the atmosphere. It would either have an open top or be vented so air can enter or leave the tank as the water level changes.

    Or do you have a pressure tank? A pressure tank will be a sealed tank. The pressure of the compressed air in the tank provide the pressure out the line. A pressure tank will have a pressure gauge and/or a pressure switch. So will a bladder tank. Those may be on the tank itself or they may be on the piping between the pump and the tank. A bladder tank will have schrader valve to pressurize the tank as well.

    What was describe bigdog911 by sounds like a pressure tank. What he thought was a float control was an automatic air control valve. Pressure tanks get water logged over time. The air in the tank gets absorbed by the water and the tank fills completely with water. The pump then comes on when even a small amount of water is used because there is no air to expand. The pump then shuts off as soon as you stop using water because the is no air to compress. The tank must be drained of all water and allow to fill with air. To do this you must provide venting (open a faucet). Then you start all over again until the tank water logs again. How often you have to do this depends on the size of the tank and how much water you use.

    The automatic air control valve is suppose to relieve you of the maintenance task. However, they don't seem to work very well, very long.

    The bladder tank provides separation between the water and the air masses. It provides more storage capacity because you can pressurize the tank before filling.

    The compressed air in sealed tank which has water forced into it will exert approximately 40 lbs of pressure on the water when the tank is 1/3 full of water. When the water level reaches 2/3 the volume of the tank the pressure will be approximately 60 lbs. Hence the 40-60 pressure setting that most well users prefer.

    A storage tank (vented to the atmosphere) and elevated 29 feet will provide approximately 12 lbs of pressure (the weight of the water in psi).

    To answer your question directly, a bladder tank with a ruptured bladder is a pressure tank. Some bladder tanks emit an odor into the water when the bladder ruptures because of the interior coating.

    Start a new thread and tell us you have.
    jlisenbe's Avatar
    jlisenbe Posts: 4,417, Reputation: 156
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    #9

    Feb 22, 2011, 05:05 PM

    Addes, you can't turn a regular storage tank into a pressure tank. At 50 psi, each square foot of the storage tank would have more than 3 and 1/2 tons of pressure on it. Pressure tanks are made to handle that while storage tanks aren't.

    Now you are somewhat correct in your assessment of a storage tank. It must have some means of producing pressure. Elevation can do it, but 29' won't get much done. That would give you about 12 psi, which is paltry. Most systems repump the water. For a sprinker, you could simply use a pump with no pressure tank. For a house, you will want the pressure tank. And even the simple storage tank must have some means of turning the pump off. Otherwise, it will run constantly and overfill the tank. This is generally done with a float valve. So there would be wires somewhere.

    Hope that is helpful. Not real sure what your problem is unless you are trying to use water out of a storage tank with only 29' of elevation. A booster pump might solve your problem, but a pump/tank combo would solve your problem and wouldn't cost a million dollars.

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