I know several questions have been posted on this topic, but here is my situation and I am hoping someone will have a few words of wisdom.

My home is 2 yrs old and I am on well water-very hard well water. I had no problems with taste, smell etc. except the hard water spots until now. In Feb. my water heater stopped heating the water, so I had a plumber come in, check it out and install a new heating element. The plumber said only one of the elements was bad. A few weeks later same thing-the other heating element went out. Paid for another service call to have the second element replaced. Immediately after the second element was installed I noticed water on my floor. I cleaned it up & next day-more water on the floor-continued to watch for a few days--same thing--leaking from somewhere. I called the plumber again. Paid for another service call. Plumber said there was a hole in the tank-needed a new water heater. Warranty would pay for new tank but not the labor to install... Paid the service call, labor and disposal fees. (I could have purchased a new water heater by now I think!) Once the new water heater was installed, I noticed the lovely sulpher smell when using the hot water. I figured it was from the installation etc and waited a while for things to get flushed out. The smell kept getting worse. I called the plumber again and asked about it having a faulty anode (magnesium) rod. They called the manufacturer and the mfg says it is my water that smells and they won't do anything about it. I will have to pay (again) to replace it or I can have the rod removed. Keep in mind I never had this problem before and none of my neighbors have smelly water either and they are on the same well. I have a townhouse and even the people in the same building as I don't have this problem either.

After doing much research and talking to other plumbers, I have found that I can remove the anode rod and not replace it. But that invalidates any future warranty I have on the tank. And if I remove the rod, it will probably shorten the length of the life of the water heater greatly. I could have the magnesium rod replaced with an aluminum rod, but I have read that aluminum can be dangerous or poisonous. If I replace the magnesium rod with another magnesium rod, it might not take care of the situation. I can "shock" the system with good old bleach or I can drain some of the water from the tank, add a few pints of hydrogen peroxide and flush it through etc. I am completely confused and sick of wasting money on this. Am I stuck with smelly water or should I keep fighting for the plumber or manufacturer (Rheem) to replace the magnesium anode rod? If I go for replacement, what do I have installed? I don't know which way to go now and I obviously don't trust the plumbers and manufacturer now. Any advice on a direction?

QUOTE=LakeOzarksGal]I know several questions have been posted on this topic, but here is my situation and I am hoping someone will have a few words of wisdom.

My home is 2 yrs old and I am on well water-very hard well water. I had no problems with taste, smell etc. except the hard water spots until now. In Feb. my water heater stopped heating the water, so I had a plumber come in, check it out and install a new heating element. The plumber said only one of the elements was bad. A few weeks later same thing-the other heating element went out. Paid for another service call to have the second element replaced. Immediately after the second element was installed I noticed water on my floor. I cleaned it up & next day-more water on the floor-continued to watch for a few days--same thing--leaking from somewhere. I called the plumber again. Paid for another service call. Plumber said there was a hole in the tank-needed a new water heater. Warranty would pay for new tank but not the labor to install... Paid the service call, labor and disposal fees. (I could have purchased a new water heater by now I think!) Once the new water heater was installed, I noticed the lovely sulpher smell when using the hot water. I figured it was from the installation etc and waited a while for things to get flushed out. The smell kept getting worse. I called the plumber again and asked about it having a faulty anode (magnesium) rod. They called the manufacturer and the mfg says it is my water that smells and they won't do anything about it. I will have to pay (again) to replace it or I can have the rod removed. Keep in mind I never had this problem before and none of my neighbors have smelly water either and they are on the same well. I have a townhouse and even the people in the same building as I don't have this problem either.

After doing much research and talking to other plumbers, I have found that I can remove the anode rod and not replace it. But that invalidates any future warranty I have on the tank. And if I remove the rod, it will probably shorten the length of the life of the water heater greatly. I could have the magnesium rod replaced with an aluminum rod, but I have read that aluminum can be dangerous or poisonous. If I replace the magnesium rod with another magnesium rod, it might not take care of the situation. I can "shock" the system with good old bleach or I can drain some of the water from the tank, add a few pints of hydrogen peroxide and flush it through etc. I am completely confused and sick of wasting money on this. Am I stuck with smelly water or should I keep fighting for the plumber or manufacturer (Rheem) to replace the magnesium anode rod? If I go for replacement, what do I have installed? I don't know which way to go now and I obviously don't trust the plumbers and manufacturer now. Any advice on a direction?[/QUOTE]

Please furnish me with the link that tells you aluminum anode rods can be poisonous? I've been replacing mag rods with aluminum ones for years with no problems.
In some cases bacteria will interact with a magnesium rod to produce a rotton egg smell. If you put the same kind of rod back the problem will still be there, if you remove it then your tank will pick up the corrosion that the anode rod's there to collect. If it's a mag rod have then replace it with a aluminum anode rod. Also, to clear the tank of the smell and any bacteria you should load the tank up with chlorine, or bleach. Let it run through the pipes and then clean the screens on the areators. Your plumber should have informed you of all this. Too many plumbers now days just want to get the job done and boogie out of there Good luck, Tom

Thanks for your input! I will try to locate the sources of the "bad aluminum" information and send to you. I have been researching this for a long time and have lost track of some of the sources.

Unfortunately, I am at the mercy of other people on this because I don't know much about plumbing (obviously). I have not had much luck in finding a reliable (or competent) plumber in my area. I just can't believe that not one person I've contacted would give me this helpful advice or information! Maybe I am just being niave, but I think people in the service industry should actually offer helpful information to their paying customers! I will try to find someone to replace the magnesium rod with an aluminum rod. Or perhaps I'll figure out how to do it myself! Hopefully that will take care of the smell. I just don't understand why I didn't have this problem with the original water heater. It was the same brand and type. The manufacturer uses magnesium rods in all there products (at least that is what I was told). Thanks again.

I agree, it's a mystery why this heater smells and your last one didn't but that's not the point anymore. Now we need to get you back in business without stinky water to contend with. Changing a anode rod's a simple operation and can be done by any homeowner. Turn off the water and the power to the heater. The anode rod's located under the large hex nut on top of the heater. Just unscrew the hex nut, pull the old rod , wrap the new aluminum rod nuts thread with Teflon Tape and reinstall. I would also flush the tank with bleach, run the bleach water through your hot water lines and clean the screens on all the aerators. Good luck, Tom

LakeOzarksGal,

Excluding all the plumber visits and new water heater, your problem sounds like the one I'm fighting. After replacing the old anode rod (which had dissolved down to bare wire) I got an increasing sulfur smell from the hot water and tried just about everything to eliminate it -- different rods, cleaning aerators, flushing with bleach. The smell always returned. When I use a "plug" (made by cutting off the "rod") instead of an anode rod there's no smell. When I put in an anode rod -- regardless of whether it's aluminum or magnesium -- the smell is back within a week.

I've come to the conclusion that my problem is Desulfovibrio -- a sulfur-producing plant that seems to like to colonize my water heater. I've investigated a variety of solutions and learned that UV-filtering the water won't help because I'm fighting a plant rather than a bacteria. Chlorine-pellet systems will work but I don't really want to be continually dropping chlorine into my well for years to come. I'm now studying inline water heaters under the belief that this is the only viable solution that excludes chemicals.

In the meantime, every two weeks (or so) I drain about 2 gallons from the bottom of my (50 gallon) water heater, pull the anode rod and pour in two cups of bleach. I then "pull" hot water to each faucet in the house. The bleach smells lasts for one or two showers; I can tell it's time to run through it again when I start getting bursts of "air" from the hot water -- the smell is back about 2 days later. (This procedure is a pain but it's gotten a lot easier since I bought a 1-1/16 wrench. I've kept it up for about 2 months because I'm also monitoring the calcium buildup on my anode rod -- I scrape it clean before re-inserting and "bump up" my water softener every other time. Once I get the softener right I'll be ready to stop playing with the bleach.)

Recommendations that I haven't yet tried include raising the water heater temperature and putting a curved water inlet into the heater. ("Stirring" the water supposedly makes it unattractive to Desulfovibrio.) Since my water heater is probably about 13 years old, I'm reluctant to put a lot of effort into it since a replacement is not likely too far away.

At 13 years your water heater is way past its prime, (as aren't we all) but for what it's worth. Remove existing anode rod. Drain out 2 quarts of water from water heater. Add 2 pints of 3% hydrogen peroxide (available at drug stores) through anode rod hole. Install an aluminum zinc rod. Pressurize water heater and let stand 20-30 minutes. Then open all of the hot taps individually until warm water comes out of the tap. Just a thought. Tom

Check it out. These guys sell anode rods that combat the smelly water (Al, Zn and Tin)... they even have a flexible anode rod... cool


http://www.plumbingstore.com/anoderods.html

Got one. Got it from them. It's the one in the water heater right now. Doesn't stop the Desulfovibrio from growing a new colony every 2 weeks. They like the PH of my soil and the high iron-content in the water so once they get the right temperature they are very happy.

I've read that some people have issues with Desulfovibrio causing odors in the old water but that's NOT a problem for me. And if I keep an opne bucket of warm water around there's no problem -- because these plants don't like an oxygen-rich environment. I've looked into hooking up a bubbler (the treatment of choice for people with cold-water Desulfovibrio issues) but it's much more complicated than switching to an inline water heater when I replace my old one.

The treatment you're describing is called aeration and we use it down here to treat smelly sulfur water from wells. There's a product on the market called Gramicid and it's a Biocide. Here's what the manufacture has to say about it,

Gramicid possesses a very broad spectrum of biocidal activity.
It is highly effective on :-

Bacteria like species of Escherichia Coli, Micobacterium tuberculae, Klebsiella Pneumoniae, Enterobacter, Salmonella, Shigella, Pseudomonas, Achromobacter, Bacillus, Legionella, Staphylococcus, Streptococcus, Diplococcus, Clostridium, Vibrio, Meningococci, Corynebacetrium, DESULFAVIBRIO, Proteus Mirabilis and spores.

Ligeonella Pneumophila.

Bacillus Anthracis

Yeasts & Fungi like species of saccharomyces, Candida, Penicillium, Asperigillus, Rhizopus, Mucor, Cladosporium etc.

Virus like AIDS (HIV), Herpes, Hepatitis-B, Infantile Paralysis (Polio), Bateriophages, Influenza, Newcastle's Disease, Vaccine-Viruses, FMDV (Cattle Virus)

Poultry Virus :- NDV, IBDV, IBHV etc.

Blue-Green Algae and Green Algae.

Protozoa like Entamoeba Histolytica.

The Larvaecidal effect of Gramicid will help in mosquito control and hence vector control.

Its acts as a powerful Deodorant.



I wish to thank adlowe for pointing out a alternative cause for smelly water.
Perhaps it's nolt your anode rod after all. Thanks adlowe! Tom

Monday was "treatment day" and I tried the peroxide instead of the bleach. Worked fine and is MUCH better han dealing with the bleach smell in the shower. The real test is whether it keeps the colony away for 2 weeks -- the limit when using 2 cups of bleach. I'll post results for anyone following this thread.

Next step is studying Gramicid. Thanks for the info, Tom. Who distributes it in the United States?

To study Gramicid click on http://www.biocide.com/gramicid.html

Feedback on peroxide:

Just as effective as bleach but doesn't last quite as long -- 9-10 odor free days with peroxide versus 13-14 with bleach.
Note: Strong bleach smell lasts for a day or two after application so the number of truly odor-free days is about the same.

Feedback on Gramicid:

Have not located a distributor in the United States. (The stuff is used in India and Pakistan.) Overseas supplier will sell to U.S.; pricing is unclear right now but minimum order quantity is 120 kg (about 250 lbs) in 30 kg (about 65 lb) bags.

Adlowe,
Click on http://www.biocide.com/about.html to find a distributor. Don't know about US.
U. S. STERILES are the registered brand owners of ‘GRAMICID’ and has developed these specialty products indigenously with a vision to eradicate the menace of sub standard potable water through continuous research work. The bottom line of the quality policy is non – toxicity, versatile, eco-friendly and cost effective. Cheers, Tom

U. S. Steriles is a company that is based in India and the provider of the info I posted previously. U. S. Steriles has not established any overseas distribution so must ship Gramicid from India. Pricing is $US 6 per kg -- with minimum order quantity of 120 kg. (I do not know if that includes shipping costs.) Payment must be made through bank transfer.

Thanks adlowe,

I thought I'd just toss the link in there in case anybody wanted to check it out.
The additional information is appreciated. Tom

I found a page that gives a pretty thorough discussion of the subject:

Smelly water: What to do when the hot water heater stinks like rotten eggs

Sounds like an anode containing zinc might be a solution. Another posibilty: disabling the water softener...

At a cost of over $80 plus shipping, I'm not real crazy about the experimenting with another anode. The $249 powered anode doesn't excite me much, either. And I'm not overly confident in any vendor who is trying to sell me a very expensive anode based on the premise that foul-smelling hot water problem is caused by bacteria -- because Desulfovibrio, a common source of the problem, IS A PLANT. I'm also skeptical of a vendor who publishes undefined criticisms of solutions that do not require their product, in this case, tankless water heaters. (Yes, I read their tankless page; it is clear that they are pushing their agenda -- selling expensive anode rods -- rather than presenting unbiased arguments.)

Were bacteria the source of the problem (as it may be for some folks), an ultra-violet (UV) device placed on the water-heater inlet line would be a possible solution. But this will NOT work for Desulfovibrio because it is a plant.


Since the water heater in my home is already over 17 years old, my solution has been to remove the anode rod and start saving for a tankless replacement. It is NOT a simple drop-in replacement because groundwater temperatures can be quite low here in Michigan. Regular monitoring of my old water heater is, of course, a necessity.

I've seen these zinc anodes available locally, which suggests that this is more widely considered a solution for at least some odor problems. It also cost less locally.
It seemed to me that this went beyond "pushing his agenda" -- I think this guy really dislikes tankless water heaters:rolleyes: . But, as a long-time tankless heater user, I couldn't deny that there was some truth to his criticisms; tankless heaters do take some getting used to.

I'm guessing that the newest tankless heaters are probably a little more user-friendly. And if you're burning propane, the cost benefit is overwhelming. But that's a topic that would deserve its own thread, right?

And I've tried 3 or 4 of the locally-available, including at least one that was supposed to be all zinc. It was a waste of time and money.

Change does. And tankless water heaters can be sized and configured just as ineptly as anything.

Maybe. But is the guy pushing an agenda? Sure seems like it to me; consider his criticisms in what he claims is an unbiased report:
- "Tankless water heater companies have come and gone."

So have all kinds of campanies, including the installers. This is just an weak attempt at fear mongering.

- "Tankless heaters, then and now are what we call 'oversold.' That means that consumers are seduced by claims of greater efficiency, greater savings, and perhaps a chance to be 'really green' or maybe 'really cool.'"

As opposed to the tank water heaters that are installed ubiquitously and waste significant energy everywhere they are installed?

- "There are no standards by which to compare the efficiency of tankless heaters to that of tank heaters."

So the opposite must be true, huh? Or is this only a 1-way argument?

Further in this claim comes "And government Energy Factor ratings are based on tests that have nothing whatsoever in common with real-world usage, something like the EPA's mileage ratings (your mileage may vary -- oops...will be totally different)." Oops -- my mileage generally runs BETTER than the EPA estimates, albeit slightly (20% or less). That must mean I know how to drive with fuel efficiency in mind; guess that is not as common as I suspected -- clearly guys who sell anode rods don't know how.

- "The sad fact is, it's hard to cheat the laws of physics. If you heat water, gas is going to be burned or electricity is going to be used and (unless you find a condensing heater) it's going to cost the same to heat a given amount of water, no matter whether you do it with a tankless device or in a water heater. Tankless heaters typically are priced several times higher than old-fashioned water heaters."

He completely misses that point that tankless heaters don't spend all day heating water for to be ready for the 20-30 minutes a day hot water is needed -- the laws of physics are pretty clear on whether that takes more energy!

"A recent price comparison between a 40-gallon tank heater that can provide two showers at once and a tankless that can do the same showed $220 against $989. Those are the prices of the units off the shelf. Installed costs run something like $600 for tank heaters vs. $2,500 for tankless -- more, perhaps, if you are retrofitting."

Well, gee, can I go out and shop for the comparison figures? I'll bet I can find an example or two that swings the argument the other way.

- "With a tank water heater, it's possible to wash the dishes and take a shower at the same time. Or do two or three other tasks simultaneously. With tankless heaters, that is usually impossible or difficult."

Pure fiction based on the assumption of an ineptly sized and/or installed system. There have (and likely will continue to be) ineptly sized and/or installed systems. But "usually impossible or difficult" should no more be the norm with a tankless system than it is with a tank system -- and they can be inadequately sized and/or installed, too.

- "How long do you think it takes to get hot water flowing once you open a hot tap? With a tank heater, since water has already been heated and is simply sitting in storage, it begins flowing immediately. Now if your tap is some distance from the tank, this says nothing about how long you wait before you feel the heat. That's a different issue that also applies to tankless devices. But how long do you think it takes before the tankless heater starts sending hot water your way? Would you believe 10-15 seconds for gas-fired tankless? A flow sensor 'wakes up.' Then a fan turns on, then the burner fires. Only then does water start to heat. Tank heaters are the true "on demand" product here. Remember what we said about hype."

Seriously, an additional 10-15 seconds on top of the 2-3 minutes I now wait for hot water to reach the upstairs bathroom is nothing! He's trying his best to make it seem that opening a faucet means instant hot water from a tank system and that just is not so -- excluding, of course, the faucet on the bottom of the tank. You know, the one that has to be opened periodically to drain off accumluated sediment.

- "Tankless water heaters have lots of parts and intricate controls. The more complicated the device, the more to go wrong. In colder climates, care has to be taken to completely drain them if they'll be out of use or they'll be damaged by freezing. In hard-water areas, they are prone to 'lime up' and that seriously lowers their efficiency."

So tank heaters are simple mechanisms with simple controls? And in colder climates they don't have to be drained to avoid freeze damage? Why, then, do all my friends with cabins "up North" waste thir time draining their hot water tanks when they close up for the Winter? And why do folks around here put so much effort into keeping their tanks from "liming up" -- could it be that hot water tanks are NOT impervious to the same problem?

"Additionally, sediment in the bottom of a tank type heater has been shown to have little effect on performance. Even with heavy sediment buildup, efficiency is seldom reduced more than five percent because most of the heat exchange happens in the flue(s), not in the tank bottom. Upkeep costs must be factored into the tank-vs.-tankless equation as well. Tankless heaters are essentially mini boilers and need attention more than tanks do."

Well sediment might not impact efficiency but it certainly reduces the amount of hot water the tank will hold! And isn't that what may of his earlier arguments were all about? Oh, that's right, contradictory arguments can only be used to criticize the tankless heaters.

And how can it be that tankless are "mini boilers" and tank ones are not? In all my experience with boilers, they are MUCH more like the tank systems than the tankless. And all boilers need attention -- draining sediment and chaging anode rods are two things that a tankless system does NOT require.

- "Unless the pilot light in the tankless heater is kept off when the heater is not in use, it does not perform much better than a well-insulated tank-type heater."

Numbers, please. Otherwise this is just an unsupported assertion.

- "Tankless makers may claim that units in Japan typically last 10-15 years. Trouble is, the units sold in Japan are not the same as the ones sold here. Japanese have a different culture, different use patterns and different expectations from their heaters."

Not really sure if that is racist or xenophobic but it certainly is an attempt at something unsavory.

"As to the tankless units being sold here, nobody is sure what their life will be because they haven't been around long enough for anyone to be sure. That is one reason why tankless makers are so eager to void your warranty for the least infraction (Let's say it again: Read the small print)."

Unsupported assertion is that tankless makers are more eager than tank makers to void warranties. Ridiculous without supporting evidence -- and he doesn't even make an attempt to fabricate any.

- "We work to keep things simple and understandable. We try to make equipment easier to live with. In general, our take on it is that tankless doesn't accomplish these goals."

Another ridiculous assertion -- "We're the good guys and everyone else is not". The common claim of the snake-oil salesman.