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fsk · Nov 12, 2006, 08:01 PM

I am in th process of adding a basement bathroom in my house.I have hired a lic plumber.

The plumber is running vent line to the sink the toilet and the shower (Lets call it vent line 1).He than connects this vent line 1 to the vent line coming out of the sewage ejector pump (Vent line 2).He finally runs this vent lin upwards approx 3 ft and puts an "OATEY in line" vent to this final vent line (vent line 2).

My concern is that,is the venting done right.As I understand form other posts,there should be two vents for such an installation.One dedicated vent out of the pump and other on the drain line.

With the in line vent, the air is only allowed in,and so in the case when sewage drains into the pump the air in the pump has to be vented out,will this in line vent allow the air to vent out.If yes will it not cause bad odor.

I would like to hear back from the experts.

Thank u very much.

speedball1 · Nov 13, 2006, 12:44 PM

Call the plumber back. Your job isn't vented correctly. Let me explain, While the AAV (Oatey vent) may work on the fixtures vent (#1) the vent from the ejector pit must breath out as well as in for the system to work. A AAV(Air Admittance Valve) will only pass air in. Just so you know what you're talking about if the plumber attempts to blow smoke and tell you that he put it in correctly let me take it farther. When you flush or drain a fixture it puts a suction on vent#1 that's relieved by a outside vent or a AAV, so far so good. But when the discharge from that flush goes into the pit it sets up pressure that's relived by a separate vent #2. Now the ejector pump kicks in and pumps the discharge up to the sewer connection and that puts a suction on vent #2, so the pit vent MUST breath both in and out. Your configuration does not allow that and must be changed. I hope I've made it clear enough so you can argue from facts when the plumber gives you a hard time. Good luck and let me know how it comes out. Tom PS. He can't connect vent#2 back into a existing house vent either.

iamgrowler · Nov 13, 2006, 09:00 PM

Call the plumber back

Tom is correct -- The ejector system must have it's own independent vent, and it must not be closed off with an AAV.

iamgrowler · Nov 13, 2006, 09:02 PM

Originally Posted by fsk

I am in th process of adding a basement bathroom in my house.I have hired a lic plumber.

The plumber is running vent line to the sink the toilet and the shower (Lets call it vent line 1).He than connects this vent line 1 to the vent line coming out of the sewage ejector pump (Vent line 2).He finally runs this vent lin upwards approx 3 ft and puts an "OATEY in line" vent to this final vent line (vent line 2).

My concern is that,is the venting done right.As I understand form other posts,there should be two vents for such an installation.One dedicated vent out of the pump and other on the drain line.

With the in line vent, the air is only allowed in,and so in the case when sewage drains into the pump the air in the pump has to be vented out,will this in line vent allow the air to vent out.If yes will it not cause bad odor.

I would like to hear back from the experts.

Thank u very much.

AAV's are meant for single fixture use -- They are not intended to be used to vent an entire bath group.

speedball1 · Nov 14, 2006, 07:09 AM

"AAV's are meant for single fixture use -- They are not intended to be used to vent an entire bath group."

Not quite true! Read on!

An air admittance valve's ability to breathe is measured in Drainage Fixture Units or DFUs. The higher the DFU rating on the valve, the greater amount of air that can enter the DWV system. DFU loads are assigned to plumbing fixtures dependent on the volume rate of discharge, the duration of operation and the time between operations. Common fixture load ratings are shown in the table.

To ensure proper breathing capability, determine all fixtures to be vented and calculate the total DFU load, then select the appropriate Sure-Vent® for the application. Each Oatey Sure-Vent® cap indicates its maximum DFU rating — 6, 20, 160 and 500 DFUs.

Example: In a house with a laundry room and bathroom sharing a common wall, the DFU load would total nine. Five for the bathroom, three for the washing machine and one for the laundry tub. The 20 DFU Sure-Vent® is the right AAV for the job.

It is acceptable to oversize a Sure-Vent®; however, an undersized Sure-Vent® will not allow the plumbing system to breathe properly.

Sorry Growler but AAVs can vent a bathroom group. Regards, Tom

iamgrowler · Nov 14, 2006, 07:59 AM

Sorry Growler but AAVs can vent a bathroom group. Regards, Tom

Not in my neck of the woods -- Remember me explaining how we had to fight tooth and nail to gain approval for their use in the first place?

speedball1 · Nov 14, 2006, 03:58 PM

But that's just in your neck of the woods and under local codes. Out here in the real world they have AAVs that will vent just about anything. I can give you a link if you're interested. Tom

iamgrowler · Nov 14, 2006, 05:18 PM

Originally Posted by speedball1

But that's just in your neck of the woods and under local codes. Out here in the real world they have AAVs that will vent just about anything. I can give you a link if you're interested. Tom

I think you might need to redefine your definition of "the real world".

Here is a list of states who have approved, partially approved or have not approved the use of AAV's.

toms1011 · Nov 28, 2006, 07:44 AM

Originally Posted by speedball1

Call the plumber back. Your job isn't vented correctly. Let me explain, While the AAV (Oatey vent) may work on the fixtures vent (#1) the vent from the ejector pit must breath out as well as in for the system to work. A AAV(Air Admittance Valve) will only pass air in. Just so you know what you're talking about if the plumber attempts to blow smoke and tell you that he put it in correctly let me take it farther. When you flush or drain a fixture it puts a suction on vent#1 that's relieved by a outside vent or a AAV, so far so good. But when the discharge from that flush goes into the pit it sets up pressure that's relived by a separate vent #2. Now the ejector pump kicks in and pumps the discharge up to the sewer connection and that puts a suction on vent #2, so the pit vent MUST breath both in and out. Your configuration does not allow that and must be changed. I hope I've made it clear enough so you can argue from facts when the plumber gives you a hard time. Good luck and let me know how it comes out. Tom PS. He can't connect vent#2 back into a existing house vent either.

I have pretty much the same situation, but I am going to vent the pit outside. I'm going to use a AAV only for a bar sink I'm am installing because I will not have access to a vent line. My question concerns that last comment: He can't connect vent#2 back into a existing house vent either. What does this mean?

I was going to connect the drains for the laundry, sink and shower to a vent line that will tee in with the vent coming out of the pit. This vent line will then run up into the attic where I will tee it into a vent that is already going out the roof. Is this OK?

Thanks
Tom

speedball1 · Nov 28, 2006, 08:51 AM

" My question concerns that last comment: He can't connect vent#2 back into a existing house vent either. What does this mean?"
Vent#2 is the holding tank vent. This vent MUST be dedicated and separate from any other vent.

"I was going to connect the drains for the laundry, sink and shower to a vent line that will tee in with the vent coming out of the pit."
You were doing great until you came up with that. A dedicated vent means exactly that. A vent that's dedicated to one fixture. The vent for the pit MUST remain separate.
What am I missing here? First you say you're venting the pit outside and then you tell me your tying the laundry, the lavatory and the shower into the pit vent THAT WILL RUN UP TO THE ROOF. Perhaps you meant the lav vent that will exit out the roof but in this trade you have to be literal. I can't just hazard a guess as to what you mean. I have to take you at your word.
Please clarify. Regards. Tom

toms1011 · Nov 28, 2006, 01:42 PM

What I basically have (going from right to left) is a washer, wash basin, toilet, sink and shower. The 2 inch drain for the washer and sink runs inside the wall then goes down below the floor between the toilet and sink and tee's into a 4 inch pipe that the toilet drains into. The sink tee's into the 2 inch pipe as it goes down into the floor. The 4 inch pipe then runs about 8 feet where the shower tee's into it. It then goes about 4 more feet into the pit.

There will be a vent pipe by the washer and basin, sink and shower. This will run high in the wall and tee into the vent from the pit. It will then run up into the attic and tee into an existing vent that goes through the roof. There will also be a small bar sink about 15 feet away that I can't connect to a vent so I plan on using a AAV. You can get a better idea by looking at this disgram.

http://www1.snapfish.com/viewsharedp...91568EC6F68EE3

The pit will pump out to an overhead sewer line.

Does this sound OK?

Thanks
Tom

speedball1 · Nov 28, 2006, 05:03 PM

Hey Tom,

Go back and read my last post. " A dedicated vent means exactly that. A vent that's dedicated to one fixture,(the pit). The vent for the pit MUST remain separate."

You may not connect the pit vent to any other. If you go back and read my second post in this thread you'll see the other dude was trying everything, from a AQAV on the pit to combining all the vents and tying them into the house vent. The pit vent isn't like the other vents in your house. It MUST remain dedicated and separate from the other vents. Your drawing looks OK to me with the exception of the washer stand pipe. It should be 36" from the trap to the end of the pipe. Will you have that much stand pipe? If not I would lower the washer trap as low as you can and increase the sinks tail piece. But the one thing you will have to change to make your system operate is the pit vent. You can run it out the wall and up or terminate it low, at least 10 feet from a door or window, but be aware that a pit vent, unlike a house vent, breaths out as well as in so every time the pump kicks in there will be a blast of sewer gas ejecting. My advice, Change the pit vent and go for it. Good luck, Tom

plumber001 · Dec 14, 2012, 01:31 PM

I am a licensed Master Plumber in the State of Michigan. I just installed an Air admittance valve on a sewage ejector system in a basement. In plumbing code 2009, residential and commercial Chapter 9, 918.1 states : Engineered vent systems shall comply with this section and the design, submittal, approval, inspection and testing requirements of Section 105.4. 105.4: Alternative engineered design. The design, documentation, inspection, testing and approval of an alternative engineered design plumbing system shall comply with Sections 105.4.1 through 105.4.6.
Basically, explains you have to have an engineered approved system to install an air admittance valve on a sewage ejector system which will work and you have to have that drawing posted @ your work site and one submitted to the plumbing inspector for approval. Not only will it be approved if plumbed the way the drawing describes, it will vent properly. Go to Studor vent which is an air admittance valve and it will show you an approved drawing. Please email me back your thoughts. I only plumb @ 100 per cent and researched this and tested it. I promise it will work. Do not call your plumber back, if it is plumbed correctly. Thank you.

massplumber2008 · Dec 14, 2012, 02:45 PM

We are all licensed master plumbers on site here Michigan... ;)

The fact is that studor vents or any AAVS are not allowed on sewage ejector pumps as we have stated here on this thread NUMEROUS TIMES.

Studor vent itself has this posted on their website:

"E.8.2.3
Air admittance valves shall not be permitted in the following applications:
a. vents for special waste drainage systems (Sections 9.4.1 and 9.4.2)
b. vents for sewage pump ejector pump sites
c. vents for pneumatic sewage ejectors
d. suds pressure zone venting e. relief vents required by Section E.8.3.1"

Further, sewage ejector manufactures also state clearly in their installation instructions that you CANNOT use AAVS. Check it out at Zoeller Corporation as one example.

Also note here that even if studor vent has a drawing and even if it is piped according to an approved drawing that AAVS are not allowed to be used in most states for plumbing fixtures... certainly won't be approved for an ejector system

Are there exceptions to the rule, well yeah, sure and in Michigan you guys may approve these for this application, but I'm still betting that the pump manufacturer would disagree and even then with all the work needed to get approval I got to tell you that in most cases it will just be easier to run the dedicated pit vent up and out the roof than to go through all the hassles... :)

Finally, I needed to make this clear to everyone as this is an international site, but I am glad you posted the information as there appears to be an exception to the rule and you seem to have presented it although I couldn't find the exception or the drawing you spoke of at STUDOR Air Admittance Valves and ventilation systems for the plumbing industry - AAV.

Glad to discuss more if you want!

Thanks...

Mark

speedball1 · Dec 15, 2012, 08:14 AM

Hi Plumber and welcome to The Plumbing Page at ANHD.com. You're responding to a year old dead threads. Please check the date before you post. Thanks

I am a licensed Master Plumber in the State of Michigan. I just installed an Air admittance valve on a sewage ejector system in a basement.

Master plumber huh? I'm impressed! I'd be more impressed if you had told us on which vent you had installed the AAV on. Just in case you're wondering a ejector system has two vents. Care to educate us? But before you do go back and read the posts on this thread. Do you disagree whit massplumbers post? Back to you, Tom