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    vikram_gupta11's Avatar
    vikram_gupta11 Posts: 44, Reputation: 1
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    #1

    Sep 27, 2017, 08:23 PM
    Why this seesaw is working against physics laws
    Dear Members,
    See the attached link.
    https://youtu.be/NTKw2Hp6tPw

    Now I explain in simple words how it will work.
    In the video you can see a seesaw having two ball each side .the red color ball side arm of seesaw is slightly heavier than green color side arm.the weight of each ball is 30 gram and weight of each box is 20 gram.
    The red ball is a counterweight and green ball will work to create energy.
    The green ball will be free to move but counterweight will be permanently mounted.
    Now I explain:
    When I lift the arm of green color ball up to a certain height and then you can see the movement of ball in the video that ball is moving due to a slope .
    But when I left the arm then the ball is getting back it's previous position or in other words the seesaw is getting back it's horizontal position due to overunity.
    It is totally against physics laws as ,as per physics laws the seesaw shouldn't get back it's horizontal position but in the video you can see it clearly.
    Now replace this ball with 10 kg.ball and counterweight 10.200 kg.and calculate input and output using potential energy formula.
    In this mechanism don't think about input as input will be very minimal but think about output.
    The movement of ball in the box will work as a output so the length of arm and length of box will be also important.
    The ball mass=10 kg.
    The length of arm is=1 meter
    The length of box is=80 cm.
    The width will be depend on the diameter of ball.
    Now calculations:
    Input is very minimal
    Output if a 10 kg ball will be rolled down from 10 cm height(though the height will be more) than using potential energy formula
    10*10*.10=10 joule
    So the output will be 10 joule but input will be very minimal.
    I would like to insist on some following points.
    (1)the angle of box will be 120 degree downside(see the Sketch)
    (2) two piston generator will be mounted on the sidewall of the box.
    If still you have any doubts then please tell me.
    (3)there is overunity in this mechanism otherwise seesaw wouldn't get back it's horizontal position.
    I request you that if you any doubt regarding to understanding then please tell me as I am ready to clear your all doubts.
    Vikram Kumar Gupta
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    talaniman's Avatar
    talaniman Posts: 54,051, Reputation: 10852
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    #2

    Sep 28, 2017, 06:06 AM
    This isn't against the laws of physics, all you have done is added mechanical assistance. It's basic engineering to achieve a desired outcome..
    vikram_gupta11's Avatar
    vikram_gupta11 Posts: 44, Reputation: 1
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    #3

    Sep 28, 2017, 06:18 AM
    So what is your view about output if 10 kg.ball hit piston generator from 10 cm.height.there is no input input is very minimal so there is only output in it.the main point is overunity.
    I would like to tell you that when I changed the angle of green box at 180 degree angle then the seesaw didn't get back it's initial or horizontal position.
    The counterweight will be permanently mounted in this mechanism.
    talaniman's Avatar
    talaniman Posts: 54,051, Reputation: 10852
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    #4

    Sep 28, 2017, 07:39 AM
    My point of view is you cannot accurately calculate input without adding ALL the component in your design. IE the force required to move the ball.
    vikram_gupta11's Avatar
    vikram_gupta11 Posts: 44, Reputation: 1
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    #5

    Sep 28, 2017, 09:25 AM
    Dear Sir,
    I have calculated the input after considering all components and as per my calculations the input will be maximum 2 to 3 joule for a 10 kg ball .I would also like to tell you that the slope height can be also increased l
    By some changes in box design.the gravity will work to do rest work in this mechanism
    If you have any suggestions then please tell me.
    I shall be very grateful to you.
    ebaines's Avatar
    ebaines Posts: 12,130, Reputation: 1307
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    #6

    Sep 28, 2017, 09:38 AM
    You use the term "overunity" - what do you mean by that?

    Starting from the vertical position, the non-symmetric mounting of the plastic box holding the green ball cause the mechanism to start rotating, and as it rotates the green ball can then roll down its incline so that ultimately its weight times its moment arm from the fulcrum balances the red ball and pen times their respective moment arms. Not much a mystery here. You can be sure that any energy you might get out of the green ball's movement is no greater than the energy you put into the system as you tilt the arm back to vertical. The output will be equal to the PE liberated due to the difference in height of the green ball from start to finish minus the PE consumed by raising the red ball and the pen. Sorry, but there is no free energy being created here.
    vikram_gupta11's Avatar
    vikram_gupta11 Posts: 44, Reputation: 1
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    #7

    Sep 28, 2017, 09:50 AM
    Dear ebaines Sir,
    I have already mentioned that in this mechanism I can get desired slope height by just some changes in the design of box.it is not a big hurdle.that's why Im insisting on the term of overunity in this mechanism.
    vikram_gupta11's Avatar
    vikram_gupta11 Posts: 44, Reputation: 1
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    #8

    Sep 28, 2017, 10:22 AM
    Dear Ebaines Sir,
    We will have to do some changes in the design of box to increase the potential energy of ball.
    See this link
    https://youtu.be/S-oAkOXDBYc
    talaniman's Avatar
    talaniman Posts: 54,051, Reputation: 10852
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    #9

    Sep 28, 2017, 10:38 AM
    Interesting toy but what practical function can it perform?
    vikram_gupta11's Avatar
    vikram_gupta11 Posts: 44, Reputation: 1
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    #10

    Sep 28, 2017, 11:48 AM
    Dear Talaniman Sir,
    The most important point is in this mechanism we can increase the potential energy of the ball as per our desire by doing some changes in the design of box.and yes in other words the potential energy is the most important and if it is increasing after applying minimal input then the output will be more than input.
    I have already sent you a video.it is not a big hurdle to increase the potential energy in this mechanism.
    The green ball will move between piston generators and will hit these generator .when the ball hit the generator then in response generator will work to hit it back and this will be an advantage in this mechanism.
    There is nothing to think more and more in this mechanism as we are increasing potential energy by using minimal input.

    There are only three points.
    (1) the input is very minimal to lift a heavy mass(10kg)
    (2) we can increase potential energy of 10 kg.mass using minimal input. (3) the seesaw is getting back it's initial position without using any extra energy. If these points works in a system then no physics can prevent it to get OVERUNITY
    ma0641's Avatar
    ma0641 Posts: 15,681, Reputation: 1012
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    #11

    Sep 29, 2017, 09:33 AM
    AH! Free energy. NOT. Even if you got 99.999% close, friction will keep you from "free"
    vikram_gupta11's Avatar
    vikram_gupta11 Posts: 44, Reputation: 1
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    #12

    Sep 29, 2017, 11:49 AM
    Friction is not an issue in this mechanism.you can see it clearly otherwise seesaw wouldn't get back it's initial position.the gravity will work to overcome the friction .
    It is clearly an overunity device.
    smoothy's Avatar
    smoothy Posts: 25,495, Reputation: 2853
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    #13

    Sep 29, 2017, 03:37 PM
    No, over-unity is a physical impossibility... you can not get more energy out than you put into it. If you believe you can. Then you are overlooking something or miscalculating something which is always the case.
    vikram_gupta11's Avatar
    vikram_gupta11 Posts: 44, Reputation: 1
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    #14

    Sep 29, 2017, 07:27 PM
    Overunity is possible and physics laws in itself doesn't prevent as you know better that only properties such as friction works to prevent it but in this mechanism friction is not an issue.even surprisingly physics laws are standing in support of overunity in this mechanism.
    talaniman's Avatar
    talaniman Posts: 54,051, Reputation: 10852
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    #15

    Sep 29, 2017, 07:48 PM
    That may be fine for a free moving model, but would not the friction and overunity be affected by first function, or application, and secondly a bigger scale?
    vikram_gupta11's Avatar
    vikram_gupta11 Posts: 44, Reputation: 1
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    #16

    Sep 29, 2017, 10:33 PM
    No, overunity will not be affected by the first function as there will be an additional mechanical advantage in this mechanism due to counterweight.when ball will hit piston generator then the seesaw tilt further and so the counterweight but a spring will work to hit the counterweight to bounce back the seesaw so it will be a mechanical advantage to reduce input.
    Second a bigger model . I don't think so.but there is a simple solution such as make a series of small devices of 10 to 20 kg balls .ten lines of 10 kg balls will work to produce almost same energy same when a 100 kg will work.
    talaniman's Avatar
    talaniman Posts: 54,051, Reputation: 10852
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    #17

    Sep 30, 2017, 03:46 AM
    What would one do with such a device? Can it charge a flashlight? Run a car? Please list all applications this can work to perform.
    vikram_gupta11's Avatar
    vikram_gupta11 Posts: 44, Reputation: 1
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    #18

    Sep 30, 2017, 04:44 AM
    Dear Sir,
    At first I would like to tell you that it will lead new discoveries.second will provide energy at very less rate .it is very much possible that it can run a car .
    An overunity device can change the world forever will be helpful to eliminate poverty.
    Dear Talaniman Sir,
    Poverty must be eliminated from the world and it will be a radical step to eliminate poverty.it will be also an eco-friendly so also radical step to save the world.
    You know better than me that it will lead new discoveries so also radical step in science to understand physics better.
    smoothy's Avatar
    smoothy Posts: 25,495, Reputation: 2853
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    #19

    Sep 30, 2017, 12:54 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by vikram_gupta11 View Post
    Overunity is possible and physics laws in itself doesn't prevent as you know better that only properties such as friction works to prevent it but in this mechanism friction is not an issue.even surprisingly physics laws are standing in support of overunity in this mechanism.
    If it is possible ( and you have to ASSUME it is because the laws of physics say its not), then why hasn't it ever been accomplished despite many people a few with great intellects and more that aren't having attempted over the centuries.

    What laws of physics support it being possible exactly? Because I've had physics and I've seen none that say it is, and if it was, then why do all the greatest scientific minds also say its not?

    Friction is a fact of life. Even in a total vacuum and in deep space friction still exists. So are losses... no conversion is ever even 100% much less 110% or more. It is Always something less than you started with.

    The point being...if you think you have it all figured out..then you are missing something that caused you to reach an erroneous conclusion.
    vikram_gupta11's Avatar
    vikram_gupta11 Posts: 44, Reputation: 1
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    #20

    Sep 30, 2017, 08:15 PM
    Dear Smoothly Sir,
    At first I would like to tell you that no one has thought about this kind of mechanism ever before so it was not build if you don't believe me then search Google and tell me only one example of this kind of mechanism.
    Second you say that what physics laws are supporting it so I tell you that gravity is working to overcome the friction in this mechanism.there is no question or doubt regarding friction in this mechanism.both we know that if mass is positioned on an inclined surface then it will fall down due to gravity and friction cannot stop it and in this mechanism I again say friction is not a hurdle.
    Now you say that I ' m missing something or my calculations are wrong.I have provided calculations so now if there is some miscalculation then you can calculate as point in this mechanism are open before you.if you want more data then I can provide you. I am sure that you will find same result as I as there is nothing to calculate.it is very simple and I have not hide any information.but my earnest request to you that you please do calculations yourself.
    If possible you can test this mechanism with a software to clear your doubts.
    If possible please use animation software as I don't have knowledge of animation software so it will be a great help for me if you could prepare an animation model of it.
    I reshoot the video
    https://youtu.be/9yQ9Ln7jBQ8

    In this video you can see easily how ball will fall down from a certain height.I have used a pin to hold the ball but changes in the design of box will work to hold and drop the ball after getting a certain height.
    There are three mechanical advantage in this mechanism.
    (1)The seesaw will itself get it's initial position.
    (2)when ball will hit a piston after falling down then the piston will also work to hit the ball in response.
    (3)when ball hit the piston generator then the counterweight tilt further and will hit with a spring.this spring then will work to bounce back the counterweight.in this way these three mechanical advantage will work to reduce the input in this mechanism but out put will be more.

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