[Jonegy]

Christians believe in God, Jesus and a "spirit"

Muslims believe in God, and although they do not accept Jesus as a saviour they do believe in him and accept him as a profet.

Jews believe in God. Do not and did not accept him as a saviour and for his troubles, murdered him.

Given the above 3 facts, can someone explain why the USA (by far predominantly of christian belief) is ill treating muslims yet kissing the butt of jews.

I will now depart to my 2nd religion - football - and return to see ( I hope ) some interesting replies.

p.s. - Answers will be graded on their humourous content;)

[orange]

Given the above 3 facts, can someone explain why the USA (by far predominantly of christian belief) is ill treating muslims yet kissing the butt of jews.

Well for one thing, it wasn't Jews who blew up the World Trade Center, and it's not Jews who have all the oil in various mid-eastern countries. Jews make up a small percentage of the total population of the world; the population of Muslims / Islam is much larger. Not saying I agree with Muslims being treated badly... I absolutely don't! I have Muslim friends and I feel very badly for them right now. Recently there was a hate crime committed here in my city against an average, good Muslim family. They had to move to a new neighborhood because of it. However, our synagogue was also bombed with a molotov cocktail, causing over $100,000 in damage, so Jews are not being treated particularly well, either.

But in any event I think it's a combination of the recent terrorism, the oil crisis, and the fact that since there are a lot more Muslims in the world they may be considered a "threat" to the USA much more than Jews. Basically, I don't think it has as much to do with religion as it does with politics and international relations. The US has always had a fairly good relationship with Israel, whereas its relationships with various Muslim and Arab countries has been dubious at best.

But yes it is kind of ironic since basically all three groups (Muslim, Christian, Jewish) believe in the same G-d. That's why I don't think religious beliefs has much to do with it.

[valinors_sorrow]

It may not be about religion or even politics as much as ordinary group dynamics, albeit on a much larger scale.

Ever see three kids fight?
Numero Uno strategy: two gang up on one!
;) + :rolleyes: = :mad:

What determines which two do the ganging?
Remember those early school assignments where you drew a crude circle around the two items illustrated on the paper that have the most in common?
(I always liked the part afterwards where you got to use your crayons and colour everything in)

LOL :p

[orange]

Yup that's a really great theory too, Val! Just take a look at the Religion forum and you can see how much fighting goes on even between the members of ONE faith, never mind three.

Oh by the way Jonegy speaking of football I'm rooting for England haha, as Canada has ties to England and also, Canada has not qualified for this event since 1986! Wow that's bad. :(

[Jonegy]

Apologies to all!!

The question was very badly phrased.

My actual quandary is with the Palestine situation where the US always takes the Israeli part which is essentially taking the part against a fellow believer.

I'll change the original if I can see how to do it.

Apologies again

[orange]

Hmmm well in the case of the Palestinian situation, again I think it's a matter of politics rather than religion... not all Palestinians are Muslim; a large number of them are Christian as well... although the Christian Palestinians are not the suicide bombers.

Anyway, as I said before, the US has had a long history of being allied with Israel, and Israel was created as a state with help from the UK, another long-time ally of the US. Plus the Palestinians have unfortunately become known for a lot of terrorist activities within Israel, because of the PLO and Hammas. And although I don't agree with everything Israel does or their methods, I do think that they have the right to defend themselves against attacks. It does seem a lot of times though, that they are targeting innocent civilians. On the other hand, lots of innocent Israeli citizens get targeted and killed as well. Needless to say it's a very complex situation, bad for both Palestinians and Israelis IMO.

It's interesting to note though... I'm Jewish (although not from Israel) and I have a friend who is Palestinian (born in Canada, parents were born in Israel / Palestine), and while they hate the way they were treated in Israel, they also say that the surrounding Arab nations never helped them, either. Palestinians are sort of considered a "low-class" Arab... no one seems to care about them much, even their own "brothers". Mind you, my friend's family is Christian, and a Muslim Palestinian might have very different views on that.

Anyway I have no trouble as a Jew being friends with a Palestinian... in fact there are groups in Israel and Palestine that are trying to teach children to get along. It's similar though to the situation in Northern Ireland I think... a long-standing, very complex conflict with hurts on both sides. Very difficult to fix! And also quite difficult to comment on really accurately unless you actually live there.

If you look at it from a strictly religious viewpoint (which I don't think you can in this care, but let's suppose), Christians and Jews have had a long history together which Christians and Muslims do not have. Christians and Jews have lived together in Europe and later North America for hundreds of years, and while they don't always understand each other or get along, there is that undeniable familiarity and dialogue that's been going on for a long time. Many Christians even talk about their religion as "Judeo-Christian". Whereas Muslims are sort of the "third wheel" of the trio, Muslim immigrants are relatively new to Europe and North America, and thus more "mysterious" and liable to be mistrusted.

Anyway regardless of whether you change the question or not, it's an interesting topic, so thanks for asking it! :)

[valinors_sorrow]

Most excellent explanation Chava!

[talaniman]

Right now every act of terrorism is put on the Muslims even though I think we are talking about a small group of nuts they have put the 90% of the peaceful Muslims in a bad light with their actions. Because the Muslim community has done little in the eyes of everyone to renounce the bad acts by the nuts, then they also are perceived, rightly or wrongly, to condone the actions of the NUTS! I think if there was a strong Muslim leader that came out against the NUTS, then the public view of Muslims in general would change.:cool:

[Starman]

I don't think those claiming to be Christian still see the Jews in that light of having murdered Jesus. That concept was once popular within Christendom and was the motiive for much misguided persecution.

[talaniman]

I hope the world has come further than that.

[orange]

Yes a good leader would help. Sadat (Egypt) was good, but that was a while ago now.

[orange]

Right now every act of terrorism is put on the Muslims even tho I think we are talking about a small group of nuts they have put the 90% of the peaceful Muslims in a bad light with their actions. Because the Muslim community has done little in the eyes of everyone to renounce the bad acts by the nuts, then they also are percieved, rightly or wrongly, to condone the actions of the NUTS! I think if there was a strong Muslim leader that came out against the NUTS, then the public view of Muslims in general would change.:cool:

Yup it's always a small group doing the bad things and ruining it for everyone else, regardless of the religion or culture. The Nazis were a good example of that... most "average" Germans were against the killing of the Jews and other "undesirables".

I don't think those claiming to be Christian still see the Jews in that light of having murdered Jesus. That concept was once popular within Christendom and was the motiive for much misguided persecution.

That's mostly true, but I've still run into people who say the blood of Jesus is on the Jews. I was called a Christ killer by a fellow student in second grade(obviously she heard that from her parents)! But most Christians I've known have treated me as an equal. It's interesting though, with all you hear about Muslims hating Jews, I've found the Muslim community in my city actually very kind and understanding, nicer in fact than some radical Christians I've encountered.

[talaniman]

There are a lot of good people in this world, Thank God!

[Jonegy]

Thanks for the replies Orange. Like Valinor, I couldn't agree more.

Sorry I'm a bit late in replying but have been suffering with one of those summer colds that send you hiding under the sheets for days. ( You know what us blokes are like when we're 'poorly' :D .

On the subject of the creation of Israel - I wonder how many of the early Israeli leaders were Palestinian Jews - very few I suspect as the Jews, Christians and Muslims had co-existed peacefully for centuries in the area and the troubles seem to have started over Israel's management of the lands.

[orange]

On the subject of the creation of Israel - I wonder how many of the early Israeli leaders were Palestinian Jews - very few I suspect as the Jews, Christians and Muslims had co-existed peacefully for centuries in the area and the troubles seem to have started over Israel's management of the lands.

I'm not sure actually... as you say, I don't think many were Palestinian Jews. I'm not up on my Palestinian / Israeli history, which is piss poor considering that I'm Jewish!! I do know though that there were Jews immigrating to Palestine for years before the creation of the State Of Israel. I think they started coming before the 1900s. But the largest influx was in the late 1940s, and since.

There are 2 things to consider here, though... first, as you say, once there was a creation of a state (with the help of other countries) there seemed to be more problems. The other side of it though, is that the Jewish immigrants to Palestine are the ones who developed the land, irrigated it, made it into a liveable area. Before they started working the land, much of it was a useless desert. So they should be given credit for their hard work to make the land inhabitable. Also most of the Jewish immigrants were coming from very difficult circumstances in Europe... the early ones were fleeing Czarist Russia, and the later ones, the Nazis and other areas of the world where they were being ill-treated and killed. A good portion of them were survivors, is I guess what I'm saying. So they would have the mentality of survivors... doing anything to survive and take care of their families. If you had escaped from a country where soldiers had shot and killed your whole family, and had been offered land in a country that had been set up just for you... and then some other people came and attacked you... well, right or wrong, I think most people in that situation would do everything they could to defend themselves.

It all boils down again to it being a very complex situation and difficult for both sides.