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Blame_Mom · Apr 26, 2008, 10:57 AM

I have searched many sites looking for information on my daughter and how to handle her behavior. It seems as though our situation is not unique, but it is most definitely very, very serious.

Allow me to summarize: My daughter is 17. Will be 18 in 5 months. After years and years and years of guilt, agony, intensive counseling, expensive and world class psychiatric evaluations, medications, special boarding schools, tough love, boot camps, and unconditional love my daughters behavior has NOT improved.

She assaulted me yet again yesterday by spitting in my face and throwing a metal object at me. The impact left my arm bleeding. This was because I had the 'nerve' to ask her about the newest damage to my car. She brought it home with various dents and a had driven several miles on a blown out tire, ruining the rim.

Her reaction has always been to absolutely go ballistic when confronted or questioned about her actions or behavior. This time was no exception and certainly not unique. When I told her she would not be driving the car again and took the keys from her the rage began. Again, not unique, not a surprise. She has acted this way for years. I have tried EVERY approach imaginable in dealing with this, from time-outs when she was little, to spankings, to calm talking... you come up with it, I tried it. This time, something inside me shut down. I kicked her out of the house last night. I told her that I was done living my life like this, in such horrible rage and turmoil, and it was time she either 'sinks or swims' on her own accord. Lest you think I am an evil, bad mother (which, yes I do feel like most of the time) - let me list just some of her actions and behaviors:

She has been treated for drug & alcohol abuse, twice in the last 4 years.
She has wrecked and totalled 3 of our cars. Stolen them each time, (no of course she didn't have 'permission' to drive any of our cars! She was only 13 at the time she wrecked the first one)! Thankfully no injuries to anyone - including the school bus loaded with 1st and second graders).
She has been arrested and jailed 3 times for various and sundry actions: shoplifting, excessive alcohol consumption, drug possession, and of course, car theft and property damage.
She has been expelled from 3 different schools. Permanently.
She has threatened to 'kill' every one of our family (her father, myself, her two brothers).
She lies about everything... compulsively, her whereabouts, her actions, her successes, her failures.
She has done over $40,000 worth of damage to our house alone - a combination of her raging actions and once breaking into the house and throwing a party when we were out of town (she lied about staying with a friend). We returned to town immediately, but not before the damage was done.

And the above are just the highlights, I would be here all day if I listed the 'little' things she does every day.

Now allow me to tell you all of the actions we have taken to try to help her over the years:

We have tried behavioral techniques, time outs, removing favorite toys, taking away privileges, adding chores and of course consequences, consequences, consequences.
We have talked, spanked, grounded, and talked some more.
We have yelled and screamed, we have used 'tough love'.
We have had her psychiatrically evaluated at some of the best adolescent psychiatry centers in the US! (She has been diagnosed, and re-diagnosed - bi-polar, depressed, anxiety disorder, ADD, ADHD, each time she is evaluated we are told that the last 'diagnosis' was 'wrong' and a 'better' description/diagnosis would be added).
We have seen more psychiatrists, psychologists and counselors than I can even begin to count.
We have tried to alleviate some of the consequences, we have allowed her to take the consequences of her actions (she has been incarcerated, required to do community service, pay financial restitution, etc).
We have given second chances... we have given 1000th chances.
We have had her in boarding schools, boot camps, regular schools and have allowed her to now take the responsibility of her schooling in her own hands. (Surprisingly enough, she has no learning disabilities and continues to keep a high B average)!
We have medicated, we have changed medications, we have used homeopathic remedies, naturopathic remedies, vitamins and every combination of them we could think of that might help.

All to no avail.

So, after returning my car yesterday (after taking it without permission) with various and sundry dents and scratches (which she claims she knows 'nothing' about) I lost it. I turned a corner in my mind - I can truly say I shut down emotionally. Completely. I don't care to help her anymore. I can not take even one more moment of guilt, agony or blame. I can not grieve any deeper, or any more. I can not continue to live my life with her in it. She has disrupted our family since she was a little girl. I have 2 wonderful sons, 15 and 23 who were raised in the same family, and are wonderful quality individuals. They have also been effected by her behaviors.

I think telling her to leave my home was the best thing. I gave her $40.00 to cover her food and get her through the next few days (she was on the phone shortly after I told her to leave happily making plans for someone named 'Jake' to come and pick her up so they could go 'party'). Lovely.

If anyone out there has any advice, or a similar experience (and god bless you if you have had to through this!) please, please, tell me about your own experience. I am heartbroken, saddened, and of course, I know, I am probably a 'bad mom' and can be blamed for not meeting her needs in some way... well, that may be the case but I do believe I have tried just about everything. I have told her time and again, I love her, unconditionally. I don't love her actions. Please feel free to give me any advice... it is so hard to just give up on your own child...

(We sent her to 'rehab' at a very expensive girls school ($7500/mo) (seriously) and provided her with world class counseling, support, and life skills managment).

Fr_Chuck · Apr 26, 2008, 11:04 AM

I am sorry for your trouble, short of putting her into state custody till she is 18 there is little you can do. I do not know the state, but in many at 17 a teen can move out without permission, I guess your only choice is to put up with it for a few more months and kick her out at 18 or kick her out know if there is no other option left.

There must be some mental issue either on purpose to control things or some uncontroled. Have any of the doctors saidwhat the problem is.

twinkiedooter · Apr 26, 2008, 11:12 AM

Mom, you have done everything in your power to help this girl. Don't feel so bad about it. You just might have to take her back into your home for the last 5 months until she turns 18 and then you can turn her loose on the world (God help them). It seems the more you do FOR her the less she does for herself. Sometimes kids like her don't turn out good regardless of how much you do for them or how much money you spend on them. She has some very serious emotional problems and even though you have given her a lot of help, she is still failing to grasp the idea of having to be responsible for her own actions. When and if she does move out after age 18, just keep clear of her as much as you can. Visit with her OK, but don't have her spend time at your home unless it is very brief. Stop beating yourself up over her. She is going to find out soon enough the lesson in life she is supposed to learn - be responsible for your own actions. Try not to jump in and help her financially when she gets in trouble. You can give her emotional support but no money. Good luck, dear.

Alty · Apr 26, 2008, 11:24 AM

My heart goes out to you and I will say this, you are not, I repeat, not, a bad mom, you have tried everything, you never gave up. You are human, there is only so much you can take, and quite frankly you've endured 17 years of this crap so you've already gone as far, even further than most people would or could. You tried, you did your best, either it didn't help because she hasn't been properly diagnosed (not your fault) or because she doesn't want to be helped (also not your fault).

What would I do? Well, thankfully I've never been in your position, but my kids are only 5and 9 so who knows what lies in my future. I would not hesitate to tell her to fish or cut bait. She made her bed, now she can lie in it. If she doesn't want to take responsibility for her actions than either do you. You kicked her out, good for you, make it a permanent thing. If she comes back then tell her point blank "This is your final chance, I am done, stick a fork in me, I'm so done. You mess up one more time and you are out of this house and out of my life, I've done the best I can, now you either take the help we've provided you and make a better life for yourself or you go and destroy yourself, but I will not be around to witness it, you've placed the last straw on this poor camels back and it's broken, now you have to fix it, I will not help you anymore!" Just my opinion, but like I said, I've never been through this.

Good Luck to you, keep you head up and your heart strong.

Blame_Mom · Apr 26, 2008, 12:04 PM

Thank you all so much for the advice and support! Your opinions are appreciated - and needed!

This is the second time this year we have asked her to leave. Her father calls her 'toxic' - wonder if this is a viable diagnosis? (kidding, of course).

Although she has been 'diagnosed' several times and evaluated by many, many child and adolescent specialists, I suspect they might be overlooking the obvious: I think my daughter was born like this.

No, nothing happened during my pregnancy, her birth was easy and very normal. She was brought to a loving home with siblings, parents, and grandparents, cousins, aunts and uncles all to welcome her. (Great family support system). I think she is nasty because [I]that is her personality! She was an angry, collicky baby, crying for hours on end as an infant. She was medically evaluated then and we were told that there was nothing physically (?) wrong. When she was young, we tried to teach her to be 'nicer' - she bullied the kids at her pre-school, biting another child on the cheek and drawing blood when she was just 3! When asked to apologize (sheesh, the poor kid she bit would probably have a scar for life), she did so robotically and with no remorse.

I think she has a personality defect in that she feels absolutely no sense of guilt, no remorse, no empathy. (She does however, love babies and animals and is very tender and loving to both. I have never, ever encouraged her to babysit for anyone... that might be a real disaster. She loves our family animals and is wonderful with them). Hmm

All of which lead me to believe that this behavior is a choice. She has chosen many times to suffer the consequences SHE KNOWS will result from a behavior just so she can do what she wants. (When she was little and was told.. 'if you choose to do this, then this - time out, whatever - will be the consequence. She would actually THINK ABOUT IT, weigh the pay off, then do the deed and go sit in the time out chair, take the spanking, whatever the punishment was)! She didn't even think twice about it. Upping the consequences (which we thought would be easier as she got older) only resulted in her behavior escalating to 'match' the price!

Again, she never, ever, expresses guilt, and most certainly cannot connect 'responsiblity' to any of her actions.

Any one care to weigh in on this? Maybe brain damage? Genetic pre-disposition?

I just don't know... but I do think it is best that she remain out of our home... the peace and quiet we are experiencing today is unmistakable... even the dog is calmer!

Alty · Apr 26, 2008, 12:24 PM

I definitely can't offer a diagnosis, I'm not a doctor or a psychologist and I would think that even if I were I'd need to meet her and spend some time with her in order to give an accurate diagnosis. I can't begin to understand what you are going through, and I really don't know what to tell you. She's your daughter, so of course you love her, but I'm sticking to what I said before, even though it probably won't work because she doesn't seem to care what you say to her or do to her. I can only wish you good luck.

Take care.

IheartEdward · Apr 26, 2008, 12:30 PM

I think you've done a lot for your daughter and you must be a great mom but she's 17 and its totally up to her now. You've done enough.

N0help4u · Apr 26, 2008, 06:24 PM

Tell her no driving privileges when she can not treat the owner of the car with respect.
Tell her to start looking for a place to live because you need peace and stability in your home and your life.
By the time she is 18 she very likely will only get worse.
IF you rent and you can't get her to move if you have to and are able to move yourself and leave her behind.
You should not have to go through this and her being almost 18 it is time she treat you right or get out on her own.
Hopefully when she sees life isn't that simple and she can't throw a metal object at the car insurance lady when she asks how did she wreck her car maybe then she will wake up to how good she could have had it with you.

KalFour · Apr 26, 2008, 11:28 PM

This is always tough. Will putting up with her behaviour help her in the long run? Probably not. And it certainly won't be as beneficial for you.
Sending her out on her own is likely to either make or break her. Either way, it'll hopefully be a lesson in humility.
Has she seen a psychiatrist? She sounds as though she has some interesting attitudes that could benefit from being looked into.

Good luck,
Kal

twinkiedooter · Apr 27, 2008, 07:44 AM

I tend to agree with you about her being born like this. I have been reading a lot of interesting books lately about reincarnation. I somehow think her present behavior is tied to something in a past life. If the doctors cannot properly determine a diagnosis (I tend to think the bipolar diagnosis is about as close to a good diagnosis of her that you're going to get). If it helps you to read something about this, please read the book Many Mansions - the Edgar Cayce story. It can hopefully shed some light on her and her behavior. Then you know that this was not of your doing. Her actions with animals indicates that she has some normal sections of her brain. I have no idea just what she is here to learn this time around but apparently it is quite serious if she has been like this for years and years. The book is I think from the 1990's so it may be out of print.

flossie · Apr 27, 2008, 07:47 AM

You have done EVERYTHING humanly possible. It's time to pack her bags when she's not home, put them on the front porch and change the locks. If she breaks in, charge her with break and entry. Tell her she'll be welcome home when she decides to abide by the rules of YOUR house, take whatever meds she's been prescribed and act like a responsible human being.
You have to let her see that you have done everything you are willing to do for her. It's now up to her.
My daughter just turned 23 and is NOW realizing she needs help. I packed her bags for her at 16. She comes home to visit but she knows she'll never be able to move back home. She has finally got her high school diploma and has a good paying job and is now looking to buy her first car.
Sometimes you have to let them hit rock bottom before they see the light. It's hard as a parent to watch but will be worth it in the long run, believe me!

Blame_Mom · Apr 27, 2008, 03:47 PM

Originally Posted by twinkiedooter

I tend to agree with you about her being born like this. I have been reading a lot of interesting books lately about reincarnation. I somehow think her present behavior is tied to something in a past life. If the doctors cannot properly determine a diagnosis (I tend to think the bipolar diagnosis is about as close to a good diagnosis of her that you're going to get). If it helps you to read something about this, please read the book Many Mansions - the Edgar Cayce story. It can hopefully shed some light on her and her behavior. Then you know that this was not of your doing. Her actions with animals indicates that she has some normal sections of her brain. I have no idea just what she is here to learn this time around but apparently it is quite serious if she has been like this for years and years. The book is I think from the 1990's so it may be out of print.

Interesting you should bring this up. (BTW thanks for the book reference, I will try to find it).

My daughter and I have discussed at length the lessons we were sent here to learn from each other. We both have a strong belief in reinc. And past life experiences. One of the things we most definitely believe is that she and I have a VERY long history, probably as enemies or at the very least adversaries in some sense.

Your answer got me to thinking that she and I should explore this possibility more thoroughly. I am going to 'send it out' there that we need to direction to someone who can aid us in this!

Thank you so much for your input and ideas!

Will keep you posted.

Homegirl 50 · Apr 27, 2008, 04:02 PM

Does she have a job? If she doesn't the only money I would give her is lunch money. I would tell her she cannot use the car or have any other privileges. If she takes your car, you will have her arrested. (and do it) Tell her when she turns 18, she is on her own.
You have done all you can.
Good luck

twinkiedooter · Apr 28, 2008, 02:22 PM

Many Mansions the Edgar Cayce Story on Reincarnation by Dr. Gina Cerminara copyright 1979. (Gosh was I ever off). Apparently you two must have shared several lifetimes together to arrive at this point in time. The entire book really delves into this subject touching on all sorts of topics within reincarnation. Too bad Edgar is gone as you two could have had a past life reading to shed some light on just what led up to this lifetime of warring together.

you_know · Apr 28, 2008, 02:36 PM

I think that you did the right thing. You will show her that she needs to learn how to be more responsible and mature by kicking her out of the house. The young lady needs to be taught a lesson and you did the right one. You have tried everything and from what I hear you are a very very strong mother. Once your child sees that she needs you the mabye she will change. I sort of lied when I was younger, then my parents talked to me about death and it scared me to know that what I was doing wasn't as important to what I needed to quit doing.
Hang in there the worst is over, now you just have to be strong and no matter how much she cries and yells don't let her back in the house.

southerngalps · Apr 28, 2008, 02:48 PM

I believe at this point there is nothing that can be done. I would actually not allow her back in the home, especially since you are scared for your safety. Something really bad could happen to you or her in the next 5 months. I've been in an abusive relationship and one wrong push or whatever can lead to a broken neck or something else. Me and my mother had really bad times when I was 14-15. We did the tough love thing and all that. Our relationship did get a lot better when she got a little more lenient. We became more like friends. I don't know if you are strict... but that was the case with me and my mother. I really do wish the best for you...

s_cianci · Apr 28, 2008, 03:02 PM

Kick her out and change the locks!

SillyGirl10 · Apr 29, 2008, 08:38 AM

You have done everything you can so bad mom I don't think so. God has sent you this child for a reason and you've done the best you can. Is her father involved as much as you are? Has her father ever treated her like a little princess?

You said you sent her to rehab, what kind of drugs is she using?

you_know · Apr 29, 2008, 10:44 AM

I hope that everything gets good for you!

amIwrong · Apr 29, 2008, 10:51 AM

Originally Posted by Blame_Mom

I have searched many sites looking for information on my daughter and how to handle her behavior. It seems as though our situation is not unique, but it is most definitely very, very serious.

Allow me to summarize: My daughter is 17. Will be 18 in 5 months. After years and years and years of guilt, agony, intensive counseling, expensive and world class psychiatric evaluations, medications, special boarding schools, tough love, boot camps, and unconditional love my daughters behavior has NOT improved.

She assaulted me yet again yesterday by spitting in my face and throwing a metal object at me. The impact left my arm bleeding. This was because I had the 'nerve' to ask her about the newest damage to my car. She brought it home with various dents and a had driven several miles on a blown out tire, ruining the rim.

Her reaction has always been to absolutely go ballistic when confronted or questioned about her actions or behavior. This time was no exception and certainly not unique. When I told her she would not be driving the car again and took the keys from her the rage began. Again, not unique, not a surprise. She has acted this way for years. I have tried EVERY approach imaginable in dealing with this, from time-outs when she was little, to spankings, to calm talking.......you come up with it, I tried it. This time, something inside me shut down. I kicked her out of the house last night. I told her that I was done living my life like this, in such horrible rage and turmoil, and it was time she either 'sinks or swims' on her own accord. Lest you think I am an evil, bad mother (which, yes I do feel like most of the time) - let me list just some of her actions and behaviors:

She has been treated for drug & alcohol abuse, twice in the last 4 years.
She has wrecked and totalled 3 of our cars. Stolen them each time, (no of course she didn't have 'permission' to drive any of our cars! She was only 13 at the time she wrecked the first one)! Thankfully no injuries to anyone - including the school bus loaded with 1st and second graders).
She has been arrested and jailed 3 times for various and sundry actions: shoplifting, excessive alcohol consumption, drug possession, and of course, car theft and property damage.
She has been expelled from 3 different schools. Permanently.
She has threatened to 'kill' each and every one of our family (her father, myself, her two brothers).
She lies about everything...compulsively, her whereabouts, her actions, her successes, her failures.
She has done over $40,000 worth of damage to our house alone - a combination of her raging actions and once breaking into the house and throwing a party when we were out of town (she lied about staying with a friend). We returned to town immediately, but not before the damage was done.

And the above are just the highlights, I would be here all day if I listed the 'little' things she does each and every day.

Now allow me to tell you all of the actions we have taken to try to help her over the years:

We have tried behavioral techniques, time outs, removing favorite toys, taking away privileges, adding chores and of course consequences, consequences, consequences.
We have talked, spanked, grounded, and talked some more.
We have yelled and screamed, we have used 'tough love'.
We have had her psychiatrically evaluated at some of the best adolescent psychiatry centers in the US! (She has been diagnosed, and re-diagnosed - bi-polar, depressed, anxiety disorder, ADD, ADHD, each time she is evaluated we are told that the last 'diagnosis' was 'wrong' and a 'better' description/diagnosis would be added).
We have seen more psychiatrists, psychologists and counselors than I can even begin to count.
We have tried to alleviate some of the consequences, we have allowed her to take the consequences of her actions (she has been incarcerated, required to do community service, pay financial restitution, etc).
We have given second chances.......we have given 1000th chances.
We have had her in boarding schools, boot camps, regular schools and have allowed her to now take the responsibility of her schooling in her own hands. (Surprisingly enough, she has no learning disabilities and continues to keep a high B average)!
We have medicated, we have changed medications, we have used homeopathic remedies, naturopathic remedies, vitamins and every combination of them we could think of that might help.

All to no avail.

So, after returning my car yesterday (after taking it without permission) with various and sundry dents and scratches (which she claims she knows 'nothing' about) I lost it. I turned a corner in my mind - I can truly say I shut down emotionally. Completely. I don't care to help her anymore. I can not take even one more moment of guilt, agony or blame. I can not grieve any deeper, or any more. I can not continue to live my life with her in it. She has disrupted our family since she was a little girl. I have 2 wonderful sons, 15 and 23 who were raised in the exact same family, and are wonderful quality individuals. They have also been effected by her behaviors.

I think telling her to leave my home was the best thing. I gave her $40.00 to cover her food and get her through the next few days (she was on the phone shortly after I told her to leave happily making plans for someone named 'Jake' to come and pick her up so they could go 'party'). Lovely.

If anyone out there has any advice, or a similar experience (and god bless you if you have had to through this!) please, please, tell me about your own experience. I am heartbroken, saddened, and of course, I know, I am probably a 'bad mom' and can be blamed for not meeting her needs in some way......well, that may be the case but I do believe I have tried just about everything. I have told her time and again, I love her, unconditionally. I don't love her actions. Please feel free to give me any advice......it is so hard to just give up on your own child.........

(We sent her to 'rehab' at a very expensive girls school ($7500/mo) (seriously) and provided her with world class counseling, support, and life skills managment).

Wow, I am so sorry. Tell yourself that one day she will undrestand, maybe she won't but for now it's the only thing that can comfort you. I know it sounds lame, but maybe try a life coach for her, anger management or something? Dr. Phil, lol. Lame I know, but maybe there is something. The biggest fear is that maybe she will be out of control as an adult. You have not failed as a parent, you have done everything you can do, you can give her the tools, she has to use them. It won't make you feel good to kick her out, but she has to learn on her own. Life will force her to make a way. She does have a personality and you can't alter it, only she can. All you can do at this point I think, after she has left is let her deal with herself as her responsibility. You know, it's a whole new ball game when you have to feed yourself, you can't treat you employer that way, or a cop if you get pulled over. Life will force her to adjust her attitude, as painful as it will be for you to watch.