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    gracedescended's Avatar
    gracedescended Posts: 20, Reputation: 1
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    #1

    Apr 16, 2011, 10:05 PM
    Why do people live this way?
    I am male, 21 years old, and in college; for some background. Why is it that people need to drink, party, and have a dependence on friends to be happy? I actually have never been inclined to drink, smoke, or party. I am happy enough studying and positively developing myself as a person. Why do people need to tattoos themselves or pierce themselves? Something about it just makes me uneasy about a person, like they are trying too hard to prove something. Isn't true expression through actions? Why do people think I am close minded or socially awkward because I am not like the above? I am not looking down on others, only looking upward for myself. As I grow into a professional atmosphere of success in school, I wonder all the more if what I am seeing is irresponsible or not? The usual rebuttal is that of "freedom of expression". I know no one is right or wrong; yet, I feel that maybe I am missing something?

    Enlighten me! Thanks :)
    Alty's Avatar
    Alty Posts: 28,318, Reputation: 5972
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    #2

    Apr 16, 2011, 10:16 PM

    Why do people need to tattoos themselves or pierce themselves?
    I think this sentence says it all. You're looking at things from the wrong perspective. People don't need to tattoo themselves, and they don't need to pierce themselves. People don't need to party, or drink. It's a choice.

    Most people grow out of the partying. It's something you do when you're young, it's sort of a right of passage, something you can look back on when you're older and wiser.

    As for tattoos and piercings, it is expression. I have a tattoo. I didn't get it to fit into any crowd. My parents died, so I got a tattoo of their initials inside two hearts. It was cathartic, and helped me get through losing them. I was 30 when I got the tattoo.

    You say that you aren't looking down on others, but reading your post, that's exactly what it sounds like. These people don't follow your strict sense of right and wrong, so you judge them.

    If you don't want to party, then don't. If you don't want a tattoo, there's no one forcing you to get one. You don't have to drink to have a good time, nor do you have to drink to be around other people and have fun. That's your choice, as much as it's their choice to do these things.

    Different strokes for different folks.

    It's not up to you to decide if it's irresponsible. As soon as you realize that your ideals don't rule the world, the better off you'll be and the more you'll be able to accept the world around you and the people in it.
    gracedescended's Avatar
    gracedescended Posts: 20, Reputation: 1
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    #3

    Apr 16, 2011, 10:35 PM
    Comment on Altenweg's post
    I haven't judged a soul. I only asked why people do it, sorry. I agree that it is a want and not need basis. Drinking is a choice, right; but why? You party when you're young, yes; but why? You got a tattoo to remember your parents, okay; but weren't all the wonderful memories enough? I know people live differently; yet, I asked why do they do it. I don't feel an attack was justified on me for asking.
    Alty's Avatar
    Alty Posts: 28,318, Reputation: 5972
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    #4

    Apr 16, 2011, 10:53 PM

    Why do you wear the clothes you do? Why do you go to the college you do? Why are you studying the subjects you're taking?

    Do you see where I'm going with this? The answer is, because you want to. Right? You like the clothes you wear. I'm sure you like the college you're attending, and the subjects you're taking interest you. Right?

    Well, some people like to drink. There is no why, they just do. Some people like tattoos. Yes, the wonderful memories of my parents were enough, but I like the tattoo, which is why I got it.

    I never attacked you, I'm trying to explain to you why people do what they do. The simple answer is the only answer. Because they want to.

    There are probably people in this world that don't like some of the decisions you make. They may not like your clothes. They may not find the subjects you're taking to be interesting. They may not like the way you cut your hair. They may not like the things you eat. Do you see where I'm going with this?

    It all comes down to different people liking different things, and making different choices.

    I'm just surprised that this seems to bother you so much. If you don't like people that drink, don't go to places where people drink. If you don't like parties, then don't go to parties. If you don't like tattoos, don't get a tattoo. None of the issues you're having are things you have to deal with if you choose not to.
    gracedescended's Avatar
    gracedescended Posts: 20, Reputation: 1
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    #5

    Apr 16, 2011, 11:07 PM
    Comment on Altenweg's post
    Thanks for the reply. I suppose people may have no reason but because they want to... Well I wear the clothes I do to make a positive appearance, the college because it yields more opportunity, and subject because it is challenging. I feel I always have some rationale. I think your case of the tattoo is void where my question is concerned, less capricious. I suppose the bother is more or less that I don't understand how one could enjoy such things. Silly I suppose, really. I feel that there are better ways to express yourself than through ink, better ways to escape stressors than drink, better things to do than hang out with people dependently, and I imagine it really comes down to living for today or tomorrow. I guess a lot of people "carpe diem". Thanks for being a good sport, I don't mean to offend at any statements I've made!
    Alty's Avatar
    Alty Posts: 28,318, Reputation: 5972
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    #6

    Apr 16, 2011, 11:23 PM

    You didn't offend me, not at all.

    Seizing the day is a good way to look at it. That's what most people do, especially when they're younger. You seem to have very specific goal, and a very specific image you want to portray. I can only give you a bit of advice. Don't be so intent on your image that you lose track of being an individual, of having fun. After all, there's more to life then work. There's more to success then having a fancy suit and a great career.

    I'm not saying that you should drink, or party, or get a tattoo. Those things are obviously not for you. But it wouldn't hurt for you to do something fun, without being concerned about how it looks, or how others will perceive it.

    You'll be older before you know it. You're only young once, and a part of being young is doing things that you won't be able to do when you're older, have a family, and responsibilities that far outweigh the responsibilities you have now.

    So stop and smell the flowers once in a while. Take of your shoes and walk in the sand. Go to a playground and swing on the swing set. Do you get what I'm saying? Have some fun, make some memories. :)
    gracedescended's Avatar
    gracedescended Posts: 20, Reputation: 1
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    #7

    Apr 16, 2011, 11:38 PM
    Comment on Altenweg's post
    Oh yes, I understand. I should worry less about others. It is true I am quite hyperopic. Oh, trust me I am not excited to get a full time job and full time responsibilities. I actually absurdly enjoy studying math and science all day. Haha. The beach is nice. I would seize the day like many others my age, yet I feel that seizing the future is much more pertinent to my life. I don't feel like I'll miss much. Thank you for your advice! :)
    joypulv's Avatar
    joypulv Posts: 21,593, Reputation: 2941
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    #8

    Apr 17, 2011, 05:12 AM
    I'm a bit offended by 'I haven't judged a soul' and then 'You got a tattoo to remember your parents, okay; but weren't all the wonderful memories enough?'

    You are politely but persistently arguing something that is totally personal preference, subjective, matter of opinion. To me it IS judgmental because of the 'okay, but.. ' You say you just want to know why, but you really want to tell people they are wrong. If you really wanted to know, you would have asked more about the why of her action.
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    gracedescended Posts: 20, Reputation: 1
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    #9

    Apr 17, 2011, 09:33 AM
    Comment on joypulv's post
    She already gave me a why, "It was cathartic," It's hard for me to really judge someone for a tattoo like that. I'm talking more about "let me put a wolf on my shoulder it is symbolic because I am strong and independent"... okay, but why don't you just be strong and independent and let your actions speak for you. Again, I seems a bit tryhard to me. I do find it funny how I bring up a good amount of situations; yet, it always leads to a tattoo battle. Why are people so defensive about tattoos?
    joypulv's Avatar
    joypulv Posts: 21,593, Reputation: 2941
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    #10

    Apr 17, 2011, 10:49 AM
    'Okay but,' twice now. You said 'okay but' after she said it was cathartic, so that sort of digs your non-judgmental grave a bit deeper.
    It shows to me that you want to change peoples' minds rather than know more.
    If you want to know why rather than argue, why do you say okay but?
    You might say that your suggestions (aren't memories good enough) are a way for you to to learn more, but it's really not; it's arguing.
    I contend that you are a judge in sheep's clothing, that you don't want to know why.
    Feel free to extol the virtues of your path, but not at the expense of other paths.

    As for tattoos: we don't know that people turn all your conversations turn to tattoos. Your second tattoo scenario is no different than the first. And I am not defensive about tattoos (I don't even have any); I am defensive about your pretense.

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    gracedescended Posts: 20, Reputation: 1
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    #11

    Apr 17, 2011, 03:10 PM
    Comment on joypulv's post
    Hmmm, okay; so what do you suggest? Can I still believe that there are much more logical and productive ways to express oneself and entertain oneself? You haven't really established your opinion on the matter at hand; but, more or less tangentially remarked about my judgements. Why don't you have a tattoo. Do you see it as art or do you think a tattoo is a bit of an idle expression? I imagine you would say for me to keep my ways to myself and stop analyzing the ways of others? Ultimately, I think one of the ways to look at it is to see that if you study and reflect on life enough to understand that there is more to it than partying, etc. then life and fun would mean something different and more valuable to you. How is that?
    gracedescended's Avatar
    gracedescended Posts: 20, Reputation: 1
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    #12

    Apr 17, 2011, 03:19 PM
    Maybe we can look at this more psychologically and less morally? I'm not trying to look for self-righteousness here, more or less why people do what they do. I guess I'm having a hard to conveying that?
    I suppose that there is no answer save everyone is right and free from judgement. Darn! :D
    joypulv's Avatar
    joypulv Posts: 21,593, Reputation: 2941
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    #13

    Apr 17, 2011, 07:04 PM
    LOL! Logical? Productive? You assume that is a premise that should be aspired to? Let's go back to your premise - I disagree with it.
    Expression is one the attributes of which we humans have an enormously wide range.
    We sing, dance, shout, paint, build, compose, write, adorn.
    How much of it do we do to be logical and productive? For me some is productive, but not logical. I do it it for fun, pride, uniqueness, letting emotions out, expressing where words fail, and sometimes admiration.

    It's all personal... personal... opinion... taste...
    If music blasts next door at to a.m. I judge it while I'm judging the noise. If a painter wants a million dollars for 2 brush swipes, I say poo and walk away.
    Believe it or not, I admire someone who wants to study math and science all the time. I just find it puzzling that you have these needs to want logic all through the day.

    (I have no tattoos because my skin scars heavily, I have a family history of all kinds of skin cancers, I change my mind a lot, and I just don't have a desire to adorn my body. I don't have pierced ears and wear jewelry very rarely. I rarely drink. I don't party, mainly because I'm 64.)

    Fr_Chuck's Avatar
    Fr_Chuck Posts: 81,301, Reputation: 7692
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    #14

    Apr 17, 2011, 07:45 PM

    And I think tattoos are great, it shows or gives you a way to express more of who you are publicly. ( or privately )

    And I really find often, those who do not party some when younger, have a lot of regrets or they start to party at more improper ages ( referred to as a mid life crisis often.)

    I was a great college student, A, B and a couple C but also had time to be part of some social activities, date and more
    gracedescended's Avatar
    gracedescended Posts: 20, Reputation: 1
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    #15

    Apr 17, 2011, 07:56 PM
    Comment on joypulv's post
    I see, logic and expression may be inherently incompatible due to emotions. I have observed a lot of people that have erred and I imagine that is why I always try to learn from others, so that I don't have to learn the hard way. I listen to people regrets and use them to avert similar perils. Maybe that is why I am always judging others decisions -indirect guidance. I'm sure I'll never understand why people do such things; but, I see that as long as I stick to what I feel is right, other's actions won't matter. I guess it's just frustrating to be incapable of understanding something; yet, have no ability to analyze why. I can't imagine a second without logic, rationale, or meaning... maybe it has to do with me over-analyzing/OCDness. Thanks for your replies :)
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    gracedescended Posts: 20, Reputation: 1
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    #16

    Apr 17, 2011, 08:13 PM
    Comment on Fr_Chuck's post
    Hmmm, well they should already know you if it's going to be that private. Publicly, I can see that; but, why not wear a shirt or something? I mean if it's on your skin you better really like it! I don't hate tattoos, I just think symbolism and art is better on a different medium I guess. I think not having a tattoo says just as much about a person too. When I was in high school I failed my first two years, and since then I have had enough "fun". From then on I have been 90% productive, with a little video games and relationships. I have had two relationships: one two year and another four. I do volunteer in a leadership/community service group. All A's and majoring in aerospace engineering at U Florida. So I do have a life... kind of! :P
    joypulv's Avatar
    joypulv Posts: 21,593, Reputation: 2941
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    #17

    Apr 17, 2011, 10:27 PM
    You still talk as though differing expressions are incompatible.
    I may read 2 totally different movie reviews and then have a third opinion. I may discuss why I felt that way, but I have no interest in browbeating anyone to agree with me.
    Variety is the spice of life.
    I don't see logic as incompatible with expression; it's just not part of it when people are just having fun.
    Some scientists still try to explain play in adult animals in terms of survival, when other scientists have said, we give up, it seems they just like to play.
    gracedescended's Avatar
    gracedescended Posts: 20, Reputation: 1
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    #18

    Apr 17, 2011, 11:28 PM
    I guess I got told :)
    talaniman's Avatar
    talaniman Posts: 54,185, Reputation: 10852
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    #19

    Apr 23, 2011, 07:45 PM

    When you deal with humans you throw logic out the window, and pay attention, because motives for actions are about feelings, and situation based. Many factors go into our emotional make up, and many experiences make us who we are.

    People do their own thing for their own reasons, logical, or NOT, and understanding of one, may not lead to understanding of another.

    People are who they are, and all that matters is how you accept, and deal with them. In that context, you have to understand yourself, so you can understand others, and the how, not the why, of coping with them.

    To some its natural, to others not so easy.
    gracedescended's Avatar
    gracedescended Posts: 20, Reputation: 1
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    #20

    Apr 23, 2011, 08:00 PM
    Comment on talaniman's post
    Great response! It's all about acceptance then and not judgement?

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