[Universal Truth]

I'm curious if you have a profession that is based on a certain assumption, do you forfeit your right to some legal liability? In this case, can a stripper sue someone for sexually harassing them? I mean, isn't their job description to be sexually harassed?

[alkalineangel]

No, their job is to entertain, not to be fondled or pushed into doing something they don't want. Most strippers have some type of rules on where it is appropriate to touch. I think it is unfair to assume that those in the adult entertainment industry have it coming to them. (not that I'm saying you do assume that... I meant peoples assumptions in general)

[Universal Truth]

Lets say you are in a strip club, following the rules, and not doing anything people don't normally do in a strip club. By normal, I mean slipping dollars into there fun parts, whistling, cheering, and in general just showing a little enthusiasm as though it was your favorite sporting team.

I think by definition they are exempt from sexual harassment. If you get out of hand, or they feel uncomfortable, the bouncer will break your legs. It is kind of like being a cop and getting shot on the job. You can't sue your employer for it, because it was a job associated risk that you knew when you signed on. I think strippers should know they are going to be objectified before they take the stage.

[alkalineangel]

No I think that is wrong. When you sign up for a job as a stripper you are assured that your job will include nothing over those things laid out by the employer. Most cases will include exactly what you said, "slipping dollars into there fun parts, whistling, cheering, and in general just showing a little enthusiasm as though it was your favorite sporting team" but if your employer does not ensure there are boundaries, and a custmer gets out of hand, then that is sexual harassment, and I don't care what your profession is. It is the responsibility of the strip club owner to take care of his girls and ensure they are not being slapped around or raped in the next room. And you as a customer should be given the rules and if you choose to break them, you are liable.

[Universal Truth]

I think you are attacking a different issue. I do not have a problem with strippers being able to sue for abuse and rape. My concern is that they are sticking their baby maker in your face and then suing you for making a derogatory comment about it. Sexual harassment, like the type in those sweet movies your employer makes you watch. That's what I'm talking about. I don't think strippers should be susceptable to it based on the nature of their job. I shouldn't get sued for saying "shake it baby you won't break it" to a stripper, but I wouldn't complain if someone from work sued me for it.

[excon]

I think strippers should know they are going to be objectified before they take the stage.

Hello U:

You're right. However, there's a big difference between being objectified in the customers mind (because that's what entertainment does), and physical assault. Unwanted touching is physical assault.

Your argument is the same one used by people who think that girls who dress sexily, are asking to be raped. I'm not one of those people.

The bottom line is, people can't take liberties because THEY objectify women, and think it means something.

excon

[alkalineangel]

I agree that the verbal comments should not really be considered sexual harassment in this case.. but Sexual harassment is not only verbal. You needed to broaden your definition.

[Fr_Chuck]

First everyone is missing the meaning of sexual harassment in the work place, it is not from customers, it is from fellow employees and from management.

As for customers these are covered by law. Although it appears Universal Truth is going to some of the cheaper worst run places ( where you really don't want to see the strippers in the light of day) with properly ran strip clubs.

In most states these activities are controlled by law and the customers are not allowe to touch ( period) now if the girls allow they are also breaking the laws

For example if you go into Walmart and make comments to the female clerk in the bakery, you will be asked to leave, this is harassment of the worker, it is rude remarks, but they are not sexually harassed as most states laws view it, since it has to be done by fellow workers and/or management. And the employee has to notify management of the action and tell the person doing it they do not wish it to continue.

Thus by pure use of the law, a customer may harrass, and that harassment may be sexual, but it does not fall under work discriminatoin of sexual harassment.

Also most of the strippers at clubs are fairly nice ladies, many are college students who do this to pay for their college, every few are "hookers" or pros. They are very professional and know just what to say and how far to go to separate a customer from their money.

So sorry but your misunderstanding of the law is the issue on this one.

[alkalineangel]

Good answer!

[Universal Truth]

This is by far the greatest discussion I have read so far.

In response to FR_Chuck- I have yet to meet an educated stripper. I've been to college, and everyone I work with has a college degree. They all swear they paid for college with student loans, not a fist full of singles smelling of cheap whiskey and stale cigarettes. I'm not saying strippers aren't smart, but how do they put that on a resume when applying for that after college job?

Chuck does make a great point, and probably the best one I have heard so far. However, I still think their pay scale increases based on the amount of harassment they take from the customer. So technically they are independent contracters working for the average customer. Wouldn't this make the customer the employer as well?

[Fr_Chuck]

Of course their pay increases normally by how close they come to violaton of rules in many places, and yes it is harassment and it is sexual, just not the type protected against in workplace laws. And normally the stripper is the one that sets how far the customer can go.

But most strippers at the better clubs are employees and they have to share a part of their tips with the management.

But I personally knew several very well and knew a lot from a college that worked at them, even a couple that were in school to be nurses.

But I would guess this does not go on their resume, unless they put down waitress or hostess. Back in the day ( this was 20 years or so) I worked for companies that sold and made some of the clothing that they would use ( at least in the start of their act) and made a lot of the garters used in several well known bars, We even made some of the playboy bunny outfits and items they sold in their clubs.

In that we often put on fashion shows and hired many of the ladies to model in our shows. So I got to know a lot of them from working around and dealing with their products and the such. * This is part of my early life I seldom mention online. But of course there are a lot of things in some of the clubs, but for many the girls were actually fairly nice and would never sleep with any customers, ( and actually many were actually lesbians , but not all for course) it was the first time I ever saw two ladies kiss.

And of course years latter I had to deal with some that were not nice and crossed all sorts of laws and some had organised crime connections.

[Universal Truth]

That's a pretty intense history Chuck. I've only ever been to 2 clubs, both with my brother, and both in celebration of his graduating college, and both were located in Arizona (where my brother lived).

My history has very little to do women and drugs, unless you count lab techs and the anti-biotics used on a daily basis for research purposes. My history is nothing but off road racing, drag racing, and science. That's probably why I see everything in terms of black and white.

As for the stripper laws, I still don't think it's right for them to entice someone into a situation where they can be sued for sexual harassment. I think it borders entrapment and could potentially be used for blackmail and other sub-par activities. They should give up that right when they take the stage. I think their accountability should be considered in court, if there ever was a case.

In my Universe, a stripper's only defense against sexual harassment is a bouncer. I think if a girl doesn't want to be sexually harassed, she should find a different profession.

[Matt3046]

Sure she can claim anything she/he wants, proving it is a diff matter.