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    galveston's Avatar
    galveston Posts: 451, Reputation: 60
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    #1

    Jan 1, 2007, 04:35 PM
    Jehovah or Allah
    In this time of "politically correct" it seems that there is a general good feel attitude about religion. "You're OK, I'm OK" pretty well expresses it. Folks say it doesn't matter how you serve God, because we are all His children. I submit for your consideration this: the God of the Bible is not the same as Allah. Discussion anyone?
    RickJ's Avatar
    RickJ Posts: 7,762, Reputation: 864
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    #2

    Jan 1, 2007, 04:38 PM
    I don't think it's a valid question.

    I, as a Catholic Christian, have no problem using an Arabic name for God, that is, Allah.

    But... I do NOT agree with Islam's description/explanation of what God has revealed to man.
    ordinaryguy's Avatar
    ordinaryguy Posts: 1,790, Reputation: 596
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    #3

    Jan 1, 2007, 05:02 PM
    The name of God a person uses depends on which holy book they accept as divinely inspired scripture. The idea that there is and necessarily must be one and ONLY ONE true scripture, and one and ONLY ONE correct interpretation of that scripture is the source of countless religious wars, feuds, fights and arguments. I hope this isn't the start of another one.
    Fr_Chuck's Avatar
    Fr_Chuck Posts: 81,301, Reputation: 7692
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    #4

    Jan 1, 2007, 05:45 PM
    God, or Jesus or any other English name is just merely that, an English name, The translations go into 1000's of various langauges.

    So in disussion of the use of the word... for God,there are many.

    What makes the difference is if you are referring to the God of the bible, or the god of the Quran or the god in other beleifs.

    Now as far as if the Christian God is the Muslim God that is a highly debated issue. Many believe it is, since it has a lot of reference to Christianity. One has to remember that although it was a schrismatic sect of Christianity in the area where the Quran was writte, there were groups of Christians there, and the faith they practiced is expressed directly in the Quran, the teachings of Mary and the virgin birth but also the belief that Jesus did not really die and that Jesus was not really god.

    So for many Chrsitian scholars it is simple, that this is the same god, since many of the writings of the Quran were taken directly from Christianity.

    Now then if you believe that the writings were actually inspired by a god, then one can not accept that they are the same as the Christian God since their teachings are against the teachings and beleifs of the Christian faith.
    Many of that idea follow the god in the Quran to a moon god, but I am not up completely on that teachings since I am a follower of the first belief that the writer of the Quran used many parts of the local christian teachings as a base for the writings,
    letmetellu's Avatar
    letmetellu Posts: 3,151, Reputation: 317
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    #5

    Jan 1, 2007, 06:18 PM
    To rishy39, The people that say you are a child of God are just doing what there God told them to do, so when you tell them to worship on their own that is what they are doing which includes trying to show you the ways of God, hoping you will accept it and become a believer. If they did not do this they would not be fulfilling their promise to God.
    Fr_Chuck's Avatar
    Fr_Chuck Posts: 81,301, Reputation: 7692
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    #6

    Jan 1, 2007, 06:42 PM
    Actually yes the entire idea that everyone is a "son of god" is not bibical for Christinaity, since those that don't accept Christ and follow him are not sons of God

    Romans 8:14 because those who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God

    Gallations 3:25 to 27 26You are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus, 27for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ.
    magprob's Avatar
    magprob Posts: 1,877, Reputation: 300
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    #7

    Jan 1, 2007, 10:45 PM
    Muhammed is a dead, self proclaimed prophet, Jesus is a living Savior. I guess the god of Islam couldn't pull that one off. You know, the risen from the dead thing. I think that makes the two different, very different! If you do not think Jesus arose from the dead, then you need to become a follower of Islam, since they don't think he did either.
    "They slew him not nor crucified, but it appeared so unto them." (Surah 4:157) Quran
    31pumpkin's Avatar
    31pumpkin Posts: 379, Reputation: 50
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    #8

    Jan 1, 2007, 11:41 PM
    I don't think Allah is the same as God. Allah may mean god in Arabic but it's not the same God. I think a lot of Muslims probably don't know much about their religion to question a great deal about Mohammed. I think these Muslims were just born into their religion & believe if their parents tell them that Allah is the same as the Biblical God, they just believe that too.
    Could Allah's name have come from.. www.biblebelievers.org.au/moongod.htm
    kiwimac's Avatar
    kiwimac Posts: 22, Reputation: 7
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    #9

    Jan 2, 2007, 02:03 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by 31pumpkin
    I don't think Allah is the same as God. Allah may mean god in Arabic but it's not the same God. I think a lot of Muslims probably don't know much about their religion to question a great deal about Mohammed. I think these Muslims were just born into their religion & believe if their parents tell them that Allah is the same as the Biblical God, they just believe that too.
    Could Allah's name have come from......?www.biblebelievers.org.au/moongod.htm
    Nope,

    The name's of the Arab moon-gods were; Wadd, `Amm, Sin, Il Mukah & Aksum. Allah is a contraction of the Southern Semitic Al-ilah which simply means "The God." I refer you to the following site

    Ray McIntyre
    Priest
    Anglican Church International
    Starman's Avatar
    Starman Posts: 1,308, Reputation: 135
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    #10

    Jan 2, 2007, 02:58 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by galveston
    In this time of "politically correct" it seems that there is a general good feel attitude about religion. "You're OK, I'm OK" pretty well expresses it. Folks say it doesn't matter how you serve God, because we are all His children. I submit for your consideration this: the God of the Bible is not the same as Allah. Discussion anyone?
    Until just recently I thought that Moslems did direct their worship to the God described in the Hebrew Scriptures. But then I came across the Islamic claim that the Hebrew scriptures were tampered with and that the Koran is the correct guide.

    BTW
    I bet that if these same people who smugly say all religions are OK and that God doesn't care what we believe and how we worship were having their still-beating-hearts ripped out of their chests by religiously fanatical Aztec priests they wouldn't be singing that "all-religions-are-OK" jingle.
    ordinaryguy's Avatar
    ordinaryguy Posts: 1,790, Reputation: 596
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    #11

    Jan 2, 2007, 06:55 AM
    I don't know anyone (certainly no one posting to this thread) who believes that "all religions are OK". Some are obviously worse than others, and the truly gruesome ones usually die out on their own. There probably aren't many Aztecs practicing human sacrifice any more.

    However, there is one teaching that is shared by almost (but not quite) all religions, and that is the claim to be the only true and right religion, specially designated by God (or Allah, or Whomever) to convert all the heathens and unbelievers of the world to the one TRUE religion. This common shared belief is the source of untold suffering, cruelty and injustice. But those who hold it are blind to both the commonality of it, and its woeful consequences. Apparently the temptation to embrace beliefs that make us feel specially favored and superior to others is almost overwhelming.
    NeedKarma's Avatar
    NeedKarma Posts: 10,635, Reputation: 1706
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    #12

    Jan 2, 2007, 07:00 AM
    Personally I belong to the free-thinkers group.
    ashleysb's Avatar
    ashleysb Posts: 179, Reputation: 39
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    #13

    Jan 2, 2007, 07:33 AM
    I have done lots of research on religions in the past. I have read quite a few books that all say the same thing about the difference between Christian God and Allah. Here is a passage that I hope will be helpful.
    "Muslims have "99 beautiful names" for Allah (which they memorize), and each one describes one of Allah's characteristics. You might be surprised to learn that love is absent from this long list of character qualities. The Qur'an doesn't describe Allah as loving. His character is defined more in terms of judgment than by grace, and in terms of power rather than mercy.
    This isn't to say, however, that Allah doesn't love. He loves those who do good (meaning that they do good deeds and adhere to the required daily practices of the Five Pillars). But Allah does not love the person whose bad deeds outweigh the good things he or she has done.
    The attribute of love is a huge difference between Allah and the God of Judaism and Christianity. That's why it is incorrect to believe that Allah and God are the same deity but are simply known by two different names, depending upon whether you sitting in a mosque or a church. Allah of the Qur'an only loves those he deems to be good; the God of the Bible lobes all humanity, none of whom are basically good.
    If anyone ever asks whether there is a difference between Allah and God, tell them love is the answer."
    Another big difference is the relationship between the two Gods and their followers. Christians believe that God is immanent, that he exists within the world and human nature. Where as Muslims believe that a person can never "know" Allah, but that He will make his wishes known. They also do not try to know Allah because He can't be known, so he remains distant and mysterious.

    Passage from World Religions & Cults 101 by Bruce Bickel and Stan Jantz
    31pumpkin's Avatar
    31pumpkin Posts: 379, Reputation: 50
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    #14

    Jan 2, 2007, 10:05 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by kiwimac
    Nope,

    The name's of the Arab moon-gods were; Wadd, `Amm, Sin, Il Mukah & Aksum. Allah is a contraction of the Southern Semitic Al-ilah which simply means "The God." I refer you to the following site

    Ray McIntyre
    Priest
    Anglican Church International

    Well kiwimac, I didn't take the "moongod" that seriously either. However, I do not believe Mohammed was a true prophet. He claimed some visions & revelations from God then the Qur'an was written. NOT that my 1st husband was a Muslim do I hold an opinion (he certainly thought Allah was God) But after reading about Mohammed, I don't believe one man's imagination is credible to claim it as a true religion. In addition, Allah's attributes are different from the Abrahamic God.
    So here's some more balance:
    True History of Islam, Mohammed and the Koran
    letmetellu's Avatar
    letmetellu Posts: 3,151, Reputation: 317
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    #15

    Jan 2, 2007, 12:51 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by rishy39
    Well, they should commit to something that is less invasive. If their god tell the to prostletyze, well, what a bummer for those of us who disagree and must listen to, sometimes ad nauseum, and see their prostletyzations everywhere. Like I said, religion is a problem, for me, and many others. That the religious feel more bound to please their god than their fellow man is problematic to me.
    Car salesmen try to sell cars, because they are committed, Realtors try to sell houses because they are committed, insurance agents try to sell insurance because they are committed. Christians try to sell Jesus to you because they are trying to make you understand the fact that there is an afterlife, and they are so driven by their faith in the word that they want you to have that choice also.
    kiwimac's Avatar
    kiwimac Posts: 22, Reputation: 7
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    #16

    Jan 2, 2007, 01:05 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by 31pumpkin
    Well kiwimac, I didn't take the "moongod" that seriously either. However, I do not believe Mohammed was a true prophet. He claimed some visions & revelations from God then the Qur'an was written. NOT that my 1st husband was a Muslim do I hold an opinion (he certainly thought Allah was God) But after reading about Mohammed, I don't believe one man's imagination is credible to claim it as a true religion. In addition, Allah's attributes are different from the Abrahamic God.
    So here's some more balance:
    True History of Islam, Mohammed and the Koran
    The most I can say about that site is "interesting." Any site whose first question about ANYONE is "Terrorist or Prophet" loses me fairly quickly. There are far more balanced sites out there, HOME PAGE: Web site of the Ontario Consultants on Religious Tolerance is one

    kiwimac
    RickJ's Avatar
    RickJ Posts: 7,762, Reputation: 864
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    #17

    Jan 2, 2007, 01:30 PM
    Side note: People should not rely on Anti-Islam Websites to learn about Islam.

    The above link is NOT a fair and balanced "true history of Islam".
    Starman's Avatar
    Starman Posts: 1,308, Reputation: 135
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    #18

    Jan 2, 2007, 01:50 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by letmetellu
    Car salesmen try to sell cars, because they are commited, Realators try to sell houses because they are commited, insurance agents try to sell insurance because they are commited. Christians try to sell Jesus to you because they are trying to make you understand the fact that there is an afterlife, and they are so driven by their faith in the word that they want you to have that choice also.

    The key word there is "Choice".

    Quote Originally Posted by ordinaryguy
    I don't know anyone (certainly no one posting to this thread) who believes that "all religions are OK". Some are obviously worse than others, and the truly gruesome ones usually die out on their own. There probably aren't many Aztecs practicing human sacrifice any more.

    However, there is one teaching that is shared by almost (but not quite) all religions, and that is the claim to be the only true and right religion, specially designated by God (or Allah, or Whomever) to convert all the heathens and unbelievers of the world to the one TRUE religion. This common shared belief is the source of untold suffering, cruelty and injustice. But those who hold it are blind to both the commonality of it, and its woeful consequences. Apparently the temptation to embrace beliefs that make us feel specially favored and superior to others is almost overwhelming.
    I was referring to the statement posted by the person who asked the question where he states that today political correctness requires that we say that all other people's religions are OK. So assuming that scenario I gave the Aztec hypothetical situation.


    Actually, as strange as it might seem, I have repeatedly come across the concept that all religious roads lead to God. I think that it's a platitude stated to convey religious tolerance and really isn't given much thought. If it were, then the statement wouldn't be used so frequently since it is obviously absurd.


    About gruesome religions dying out on their own, when the Spaniards arrived in Mexico human sacrifice for religious purposes had been practiced for centuries and instead of diminishing had intensified under the Aztecs. It took a gruesome military campaign to put an end to it. Is that what you mean by dying out on its own?
    ordinaryguy's Avatar
    ordinaryguy Posts: 1,790, Reputation: 596
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    #19

    Jan 2, 2007, 04:51 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by Starman
    About gruesome religions dying out on their own, when the Spaniards arrived in Mexico human sacrifice for religious purposes had been practiced for centuries and instead of diminishing had intensified under the Aztecs. It took a gruesome military campaign to put an end to it. Is that what you mean by dying out on its own?
    Yeah, I guess I should have said "die out on their own or are defeated in a fight to the death with other similarly gruesome adversaries".

    Quote Originally Posted by letmetellu
    Christians try to sell Jesus to you because they are trying to make you understand the fact that there is an afterlife, and they are so driven by their faith in the word that they want you to have that choice also.
    Rishy is right. If there is an afterlife, it can only be a fact to those who have already died. To the rest of us, it can be a hope, a hypothesis, and a belief, but not a fact. Trying to "sell Jesus" as a way to make somebody accept your belief as a fact is not salesmanship, it's arrogance.
    31pumpkin's Avatar
    31pumpkin Posts: 379, Reputation: 50
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    #20

    Jan 2, 2007, 06:00 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by rishy39
    letmetellu wrote: "Christians try to sell Jesus to you because they are trying to make you understand the fact that there is an afterlife..."

    Here is the problem I, and other atheists have with proselytizing. In the quote above you say the afterlife is a fact. Sorry, it is NOT. It is your belief. Nothing more. Don't try to sell something as fact when it is not. False advertising. Please, stop acting like you have something on the rest of us. All you have is a belief that is unprovable, and from what I can see, also damaging to relationships between members of the same society.

    As Americans, we need to leave our religion at home. The public spaces are not christian, and you cannot make them so (though I believe that is what you want. But, it is just my belief, I no way to prove it.).

    I am very concerned about our country devolving. Your Christianizing of the country is not helping!
    I didn't hear anyone here directly try to witness to you. And doesn't visiting the RELIGION category on a forum require someone to anticipate a certain amount of Religious tolerance?
    Religion IS left at home and church.
    The majority of Americans believe in God. If doomsday comes tomorrow- That's why He will save us(or his)
    But that's OK, you have a free will not to believe.

    OK. Back to topic would be good now. :)

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