I understand what you're saying, but trust me that's SUCH a stereotype! In Americanized-Muslim families the men RESPECT their wives completely! If you find a good guy anyway. My Muslim uncles have never treated their wives badly and hold a high respect for them because they do take care of them and the children. Sorry, I don't mean to be caddy, but that really bothers me when people hold that stereo type against Muslim men. They don't beat there wives either.

Then there's that whole issue about leaving Islam that I didn't face.

http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/S...=1119503544134

Oh yes they do beat their wives! That especially if they are westernized. My 1st husband was Muslim. He tried to" break my hard head" for wearing shorts & enraging his jealousy of other men looking at me. That's beyond possessive! That's sick.
Not to say that any other men don't beat on their wives for different things, but it's all abnormal.

If the main reason for preferring to be a Muslim rather than some other religion is so that you like the way the women behave, then I feel sorry for that.
Most of us just try to find someone compatible to love & share their life without restrictions & stereotyping.

I'm afraid its NOT a sterotype. It's a precept of the religion. I don't dispute that not all Muslim men, especially westernized ones treat their wives that way. But if they don't, they are not following the teachings of Islam that closely.

I think your experience is the exception. Again, you need to do a LOT more research.

Well I'm sorry to hear that you're first husband beat you or whatever, but half of my family is Muslim and most of my uncles came to America when they were 18! They would never lay a hand on their wives!! Muslim men who do beat their wives just make us look bad, but it also depends on what ethnicity the man is. I am Lebanese and that has never happened in my family! Yemens or other ethnicites may beat their wives, but they just make us Lebanese look bad! They should not be compared to each other! Lebanese is a completely different thing then Yemen or Palestinian, etc. That is SUCH a stereo type! And I really am sorry that you had that experience but trust me no good Arabic Muslim guy beats there wife.

Well, he came from Lebanon in his early 20's and not 18. So that's a relief that he isn't one of your uncles! Just kidding!
I meant the women were westernized. You may be limited to Muslim women only though. Even so, in America, they may want more freedom than what they have... one day!

It is taking me forever to drop my former faith... they just won't let me go... I wrote letters only to have them return... I made phone calls.. they tell me... I am just going through the change... what I found more interesting and supporting are those of my family that are Muslims and Lutheran faith... there seemed to less arguments about other faith... this will be your life at the end... you will have to live forever with that final decision... your father... if he is a true christian will and should not hate you for your new direction... open minds are and should be the trait of most true faith... the reaction of the fruit from the christian faith will be challenged in your decision and again no one should be disassociating you and wishing your death... when you make the choice... it is your heart condition that you should follow... now if you are underage then you will truly have to follow the direction of the father and mother... when you leave the house... if being a muslim is still within you... then that is what you should believe... these are challenging times and evil is working hard to collect his masses... do not hate the faith... just dis-like rotten fruit...

in response to Mahlia513's original question:

I can agree with the above quote, though the rest of what she said is hard to grasp without reading the rest of the thread history.

I would challenge you to read the Bible, and what Jesus said about himself, his purpose, and how we as humans fit into the whole big picture. These things will compel you to make a choice. There is no ambiguity, no wishy washy new age spirituality there.

Obviously you must make your own decision for what you will believe, and it will affect you for eternity. Whatever examples of any religion you see exhibited in other humans, take it/them with a grain of salt, because we're all imperfect. In other words, don't let someones' interpretations of morals and values override the much more important absolute values that the God of the Old and New Testaments represents.

Jesus made many clear statements that require a clear acceptance or rejection of Him and His claims. His deeds also impacted history in an undeniable and irreversible fashion, which also has to be reckoned with by each individual.

So, read both the Quran and the Bible, and ask Him to help you see the Truth.

May you quickly see the Light!

Hi Don't make enemies in choosing what you want, keep as you are you get both sides of a argument and god knows what you feel, You don't gain any medals by choosing one or the other I would think god would prefer someone who knows both sides of a story than just knowing one. CARL.

As I see it, you are very fortunate to have been born into such a diverse family, and you are wise beyond your years in questioning the claims of the various religions to be the only right one. My own experience was limited to a single fundamentalist Christian denomination until I was older than you are now. It was a years-long struggle for me to break free of these narrow minded rigid views and find a larger perspective on the life of the spirit. I know it may be tempting to pick just one religion and limit your belief and experience as required by the teachers of that faith. But I would urge you to see each religious tradition as a different facet of the complex jewel of spiritual life and experience. Take the best of each, but give your exclusive moral allegiance to none. Those who rigidly adhere to one or the other of these religions will have trouble accepting your choice if it is anything other than the one they hold, and they may well reject or shun you for it. But if they truly love you they will come around eventually. Far better to follow the light of your own conscience wherever that leads you than to choose only out of fear of being ostracised. This may not lead you to the easiest life you could have, but I sense that you are far too intelligent and honest to be satisfied for long with a rigid orthodoxy of any kind.

I totally disagree with you scotgem. I am sure you know there is a huge difference between cultures and religion, you can not put them on the same spot. If so called muslim men beat their wives, they are doing totally against the Islamic religion. Islam doesn't give permission to anyone to beat up one's wife.

I would say those who do these kind of acts don't know about Islam because having a name like muslim or born in muslim family don't make you a muslim. To be a muslim one has to practice, I believe not just in Islam but in any other religion one do have to practice the religion to be a good follower of... and once one start practicing it becomes hard for one to hurt anybody.



Check out the following links, about the women in Islam.

http://islamqa.com/special/index.php...site=16&ln=eng

http://www.irf.net/irf/faqonislam/index.htm

WHOA! You need to go back and read what I said. I never said anything about Muslim men beating their wives. You seened to have picked up on a throwaway comment by the OP that I responded to and totally misinterpeted what I actually said.

What I have said in this thread that the Muslim culture generally holds women as second class citizens. Women have a place in the home and little more. I agreed that it was not true of all Muslims, but it is something taught in the culture.

You have to be more specific in order for us to know what you are referring to. What morals and what values? A true Christian is honest, peaceful, loving, kind. So I don't see where you can find flaw with the Christian morals unless you are mistaking apostate Christian morality with true Christian morality. So perhaps what you really should be doing is seeking a Christian denomination that truly adheres to the Christian morals as outlined in the Bible instead of casting Jesus' Ransom Sacrifice aside as if it were of no value.


If you speak to a Christian member of your family he will tell you that you are making a grave mistake.

Your religious decisions shouldn't be based on what others think about you.

I apologize, if I misunderstood. Correct me if I am wrong, I don't know the religion of Islam much but I have learnt a bit about it by searching around and meeting with people.

When you said , don't u think "its a precept of the culture" make more sense then the religion. As u said it is something taught in the culture, or uneducated background but not a religion,

I didn't mean that exactly you said about beating the women's, misbehaving with them.


Could u explain a bit more what you mean by "I don't dispute that not all Muslim men, especially westernized ones treat their wives that way. But if they don't, they are not following the teachings of Islam that closely. "

Thanks

Its hard to separate the religion of Islam from the culture. I read the site you linked to that listed excerpts that seem to show Islam does hold women in high esteem. But I look at the culture in Islamic/Muslim countries where women are required to cover up completely, walk behind men in public, where they are usually not invited to participate in decisions that are held as the province of the male.

If one does a WEB search on oppression of islamic women they will find several articles that deal with the issue on both sides.

Though it is hard to separte religion and culture from each other, but in reality they are separate.
"Culture is the shared knowledge and schemes created by a set of people for perceiving, interpreting, expressing, and responding to the social realities around them" (p. 9). By Lederach, J.P. (1995). Preparing for peace: Conflict transformation across cultures. Syracuse, NY: Syracuse University Press

"Religion: Relation of human beings to God or the gods or to whatever they consider sacred or, in some cases, merely supernatural."
—Britannica Concise Encyclopedia (online, 2006)

We can not judge or give openios about religion by some culture.

Let say Americans and asians or africans have the same religion chritianity, budism, islam or any other, but do they share the same culture, I don't think so. I have spent a bit of my life in a islamic country, where I would say there are about 10% or so of the people are christian, where as the major religion is Islam in the country, do those 10% peole share their religion because they are living in a country that has 90% muslims, no, do they share culture of course yeah.

So culture and religion are different from each other.

If one is searching around about a specific religion or culture, he/she need to make sure, who has written about the topic. If I am searching about a christianity, I would have to ask somebody who is christian, a muslim or a budist won't talk all positive about christianity or v.vrsa. We need to know whome we are asking to, from where we are getting the information.

If in a culture women walk behind the men in public .etc, might ask somebody from that culture why, what is the reason behind it, why women have to cover up.


Thanks for the info.

I realize that culture and religion are different, but with Islam, the lines are much more blurred then with other religions.

May I ask what lines?

Please don't mind, I do know about chritianity a bit, but trying to learn about Islam a bit also.

Thanks

In most other religions the practice of that religion doesn't govern one's daily lives to extent Islam does. In most Christian sects, the practice of the religion centers around going to church on Sundays. Yes Christians are exorted to lead a "christian" life, but that's mostly about being moral and ethical. In Judiasm, there are a few more rules, especially about eating and the way one dresses and certain daily rituals. But those are more observed by the orthodox and not as much my other sects.

But in Islam the rules govern a much greater portion of daily life. What one eats and drinks. How one dresses. How they do so many things. I spoke earlier that Islamic people aren't allowed to borrow money. When the religion dictates so much of one's life, it blurs the lines between religion and culture.

Mahlia's concerns seem more about what her parents may think of her than any other issue. Most,(not all), religions have a good moral code, so it is probably safe to say that almost any religion will do to live by. Just put the major ones in a hat and draw one. Having said that, it is quite another thing to choose a faith to die by. Our hereafter is much longer and more important than our here and now. Put a lot of sincere prayer into your search.