[cdad]

Hello again, dad:

In order to have a few more children, HAVING a few more varmints MIGHT be one of the prices we have to pay.

excon

The question was thrown out there and I had answered it. All things can be abused when used incorrectly. Try following the invention and life of dynomite and you will see abuses from its original intention.

[tomder55]

Tom get real, that idiot used a military weapon

No he didn't .He used one that looked like a military weapon.

Edit... even when we had a so called "assault rifle"ban... all they did was ban semi-automatics that looked like military rifles. Hunters that wanted one could legally get them... as long as it looked like a hunting rifle.

[tomder55]

Hello again, tom:

Nahhhh... He'd have to KNOW about a fertalizer bomb. He'd have to KNOW how to make it. He'd have to KNOW where to buy the makings. He'd have to HAVE the money to buy it. He'd have to MAKE it.

But, the GUN was right on the table.... That makes it SOOOOOOO much EASIER to murder these children. I know you don't understand... I'm sorry.

excon

Materials for fertilizer bombs not regulated | Homeland Security News Wire

If it was an impulse attack then yes I agree. But I am sure this was planned many days in advance ;despite the stupid FOX report this morning .

[odinn7]

It shows the complete lack of knowledge of guns when a civilian AR is constantly referred to as a "military weapon". The similarity is the appearance. That's it. But I suppose we can create more panic and make the rifle look worse by calling it a military weapon... oh, and an "automatic weapon"...

Also, I keep seeing "weapons of mass destruction" in this thread. Really? I was always under the impression that WMD was in reference to bombs, missiles, bio-weapons... now we need to include an AR in that as well...

Well, I guess it does sound better... so much more evil.

[tomder55]

Professor Adam Lankford wrote this op ed Monday comparing mass killers in the US to suicide bombers outside the US. He finds striking simularities:

There appears to be a triad of factors that sets these killers apart. The first is that they are generally struggling with mental health problems that have produced their desire to die. The specific psychiatric diagnoses vary widely, and include everything from clinical depression and post-traumatic stress disorder to schizophrenia and others forms of psychosis. The suicide rate was 12.4 per 100,000 people in the United States in 2010 (the highest in 15 years). Suicide is relatively rare, but it is rarer still in most Muslim countries. This is a very limited pool from which most suicide terrorists and rampage shooters come.

The second factor is a deep sense of victimization and belief that the killer's life has been ruined by someone else, who has bullied, oppressed or persecuted him. Not surprisingly, the presence of mental illness can inflame these beliefs, leading perpetrators to have irrational and exaggerated perceptions of their own victimization. It makes little difference whether the perceived victimizer is an enemy government (in the case of suicide terrorists) or their boss, co-workers, fellow students or family members (in the case of rampage shooters).

The key is that the aggrieved individual feels that he has been terribly mistreated and that violent vengeance is justified. In many cases, the target for revenge becomes broader and more symbolic than a single person, so that an entire type or category of people is deemed responsible for the attacker's pain and suffering. Then, the urge to commit suicide becomes a desire for murder-suicide, which is even rarer; a recent meta-analysis of 16 studies suggests that only two to three of every one million Americans commit murder-suicide each year.

The third factor is the desire to acquire fame and glory through killing. More than 70 percent of murder-suicides are between spouses or romantic or sexual partners, and these crimes usually take place at home. Attackers who commit murder-suicide in public are far more brazen and unusual. Most suicide terrorists believe they will be honored and celebrated as “martyrs” after their deaths and, sure enough, terrorist organizations produce martyrdom videos and memorabilia so that other desperate souls will volunteer to blow themselves up.

Similarly, rampage shooters have often been captivated by the idea that they will become posthumously famous. “Isn't it fun to get the respect that we're going to deserve?” the Columbine shooter Eric Harris remarked. He had fantasized with his fellow attacker, Dylan Klebold, that the filmmakers Steven Spielberg and Quentin Tarantino would fight over the rights to their life story.

Although we can only speculate, Adam Lanza's decision to target elementary school children in Newtown, Conn. may have been a calculated attempt to get as much attention as possible. Despite misconceptions to the contrary, many mentally ill people are quite capable of staging their attacks for symbolic effect. In 2002, the Washington-area snipers John Allen Muhammad and Lee Boyd Malvo shot a middle schooler, then taunted the police with a note that said “Your children are not safe anywhere at any time.” Mr. Lanza may have realized that the only thing that generates more attention than killing random innocent adults is killing random innocent children.

It is tempting to look back at recent history and wonder what's wrong with America — our culture and our policies. But underneath the pain, the rage and the desire to die, rampage shooters like Mr. Lanza are remarkably similar to aberrant mass killers — including suicide terrorists — in other countries. The difference rests in how they are shaped by cultural forces and which destructive behaviors they seek to copy. The United States has had more than its share of rampage shootings, but only a few suicide attacks. Other countries are regularly plagued by suicidal explosions, but rarely experience a school shooting.

I can't help but wonder about Eric Harris, Dylan Klebold, Seung-Hui Cho and Adam Lanza. If they had been born in Gaza or the West Bank, shaped by terrorist organizations' hateful propaganda, would they have strapped bombs around their waists and blown themselves up? I'm afraid the answer is yes.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/18/op...lers.html?_r=0
Research on Suicide Terrorism, Mass Shootings, Criminal Behavior, and More

[excon]

Hello again, tom:

Professor Adam Lankford wrote this op ed Monday comparing mass killers in the US to suicide bombers outside the US. He finds striking simularities:

All the more reason to make sure they CAN'T get their hands on weapons of mass destruction.

Excon

[tomder55]

Now a semi-automatic is a wmd ? Lol

Today the President created a taskforce headed by Joe Biden to come up with gun control legislation... yes this Joe Biden

Biden and his Beretta - YouTube

[Wondergirl]

Today the President created a taskforce headed by Joe Biden to come up with gun control legislation

Do you know who will be on this taskforce? It sounds like the agenda will include discussion about
1. legislation to reinstate a ban on assault-style weapons (expired in 2004).
2. closing a gun show loophole allowing people to buy arms from private dealers without background checks
3. legislation limiting high-capacity ammunition magazines

I'm guessing other taskforces will be formed to discuss the mental health issues and maybe the impact of violent entertainment (?). And I hope it won't be only talk with no reasonable and worthwhile action.

[paraclete]

It shows the complete lack of knowledge of guns when a civilian AR is constantly referred to as a "military weapon". The similarity is the appearance. That's it. But I suppose we can create more panic and make the rifle look worse by calling it a military weapon....oh, and an "automatic weapon"....

Also, I keep seeing "weapons of mass destruction" in this thread. Really? I was always under the impression that WMD was in reference to bombs, missiles, bio-weapons....now we need to include an AR in that as well....

Well, I guess it does sound better....so much more evil.

You have your head in the sand it is the same weapon as the M16, the armalite rifle used by military forces, It just doesn't operate on automatic and there is one verson of it that takes large calibre ammunition and WMD isn't just confined to things that kill many people in one place

[odinn7]

You have your head in the sand it is the same weapon as the M16, the armalite rifle used by military forces, It just doesn't operate on automatic and there is one verson of it that takes large calibre ammunition and WMD isn't just confined to things that kill many people in one place

It's not the same "weapon"... It doesn't have a select fire option and the trigger group is made for semi only. The rifle would need to be modified to accept an auto trigger group. Therefore, it is not the same rifle.

And who has their head in the sand?
WMD as defined by the FBI: FBI WMD FAQs

[speechlesstx]

now a semi-automatic is a wmd ? lol

Today the President created a taskforce headed by Joe Biden to come up with gun control legislation ...... yes this Joe Biden

Biden and his Beretta - YouTube

I wonder why he didn't get Dingy Harry Reid and Diane Feinstein to figure it out?

[excon]

Hello again, tom:

now a semi-automatic is a wmd ? Lol

You call 'em what YOU want, and I'll call 'em what I want..

ANY weapon that can wipe out 100 people in 30 seconds, and with a quick change of the magazine, another 100, IS a weapon of mass destruction in MY book.. It don't surprise me none that we don't agree.

Excon

[paraclete]

I'm with you ex, there has been pussyfooting around this issue for a long time, I'll tell you this so the gunnuts have something to look forward to.

You would be aware that we have some stringent gun control laws here, well in the aftermath of recent gang violence and an on the street assassination among our more violent residents, no prizes for guessing who, they will move to ban semi-automatic hand guns in my state.
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news...-1226540732055

And the interesting thing is there isn't even a ripple of protest

Enough pussyfooting around on this issue no matter where you live!

[Alty]

Hello again, tom:

You call 'em what YOU want, and I'll call 'em what I want..

ANY weapon that can wipe out 100 people in 30 seconds, and with a quick change of the magazine, another 100, IS a weapon of mass destruction in MY book.. It don't surprise me none that we don't agree.

excon

I agree with you 100%. That's been my point this entire time. To me, a gun that has a 100 bullet clip that can shoot 100 bullets in a matter of seconds, is a dangerous weapon that should not have been in the hands of a civilian.

On fb I'm having this same argument, and I'm repeatedly told that this tragedy would still have happened had the killer not had this gun, but just a 6 shooter handgun or a knife. Well, if you look at this crime, right after shots were heard, teachers hid their students, the school was put on lockdown. Would people have still died if the killer had only had a 6 shooter handgun or knife? Probably. But 26 people? Doubtful.

We can't prevent murder, we can't prevent things like this from happening completely, but we can sure as hell make it harder for people to kill dozens of people in a few minutes, by limiting the weapons they have access to. Had this killer not had access to the weapons he had, 20 parents wouldn't be grieving the loss of their children tonight. Would any be grieving? Could be, the shooter could be a good shot and aim and hit all 6 targets if he had the kind of gun I believe is the only type of weapon that should be allowed for civilians. But 20 children? I doubt it.

I have 3 weapons, I have one that can hold 5 bullets. Trust me, that's all I need for protection. If you break into my home and my dogs don't tear you apart, I will take you down, and I won't need all 5 bullets to do it. So why does anyone else need 100 bullet clips, and guns that can hold those clips? I'm not a gun aficionado, that's obvious, but I can aim and shoot, and 5 bullets is all I need if you intend to do me harm. Frankly, I most likely wouldn't even need that, I have a baseball bat and two dogs that are very protective of their family home, and only accept invited guests that we personally greet.

[paraclete]

So why does anyone else need 100 bullet clips, and guns that can hold those clips? .

Let me try and answer your question. Because of the rambo mystique. There is a belief that a courageous, if inadequately trained citizen, will be victorious over an armed attacker, that the attacker will back off if confronted. The attacker in the Newtown case went prepared to be confronted, he wore a bullet proof vest, proving his obvious intent to fight it out. There is also some sort of belief that the US is about to suffer some form of invasion which will require the average citizen to defend themselves, thus they need weapons with high magazine capacity. This is some sort of hangover from the revolution and it is true that for about fifty years they might have had reason for concern. Fact is they have created the situation where they need to defend themselves against each other. This is called paranoia

[tomder55]

There is no legal gun on the market that can "wipe out 100 people in 30 seconds" . A rapid rate of fire of a Bushmaster AR-15 is about 45 rpm and that depends on the ability of the shooter to pull the trigger at that rate . As I already said ,I have no problem with restrictions on magazine sizes.

[Wondergirl]

There is no legal gun on the market that can "wipe out 100 people in 30 seconds" . A rapid rate of fire of a Bushmaster AR-15 is about 45 rpm and that depends on the ability of the shooter to pull the trigger at that rate . As I already said ,I have no problem with restrictions on magazine sizes.

And my husband said there were probably 30 bullets in the clip and he had to pull the trigger for each shot -- it wasn't an automatic spray of bullets after one trigger pull.

[tomder55]

And my husband said there were probably 30 bullets in the clip and he had to pull the trigger for each shot -- it wasn't an automatic spray of bullets after one trigger pull.

yes ;each shot has to be the result of an independent trigger pull. The semi-automatic differs from the bolt action in that a bullet resets in the chamber automatically. The clip size sounds right.

[Alty]

And my husband said there were probably 30 bullets in the clip and he had to pull the trigger for each shot -- it wasn't an automatic spray of bullets after one trigger pull.

Where did your husband get this information?

Edit. If the shooter had 30 bullets in his gun, then he didn't have to reload once to kill the 26 people he killed.

[Wondergirl]

Where did your husband get this information?

Edit. If the shooter had 30 bullets in his gun, then he didn't have to reload once to kill the 26 people he killed.

He knows from personal knowledge as a gun collector that a Bushmaster is semi-automatic (one trigger pull for each shot) and that 30 rounds is the usual for it for one magazine.

Here is something from online CNN --

"The primary weapon used in the attack was a "Bushmaster AR-15 assault-type weapon," said Connecticut State Police Lt. Paul Vance. The rifle is a Bushmaster version of a widely made AR-15, the civilian version of the M-16 rifle used by the U.S. military. The original M-16 patent ran out years ago, and now the AR-15 is manufactured by several gunmakers. Unlike the military version, the AR-15 is a semiautomatic, firing one bullet per squeeze of the trigger. But like the M-16, ammunition is loaded through a magazine. In the school shooting, police say Lanza's rifle used numerous 30-round magazines."

Newtown shooter's guns: What we know - CNN.com

Edit: The children were shot multiple times. Lanza reloaded and used more than one magazine.

2nd edit: And Lanza shot staff and students who were in more than one room, i.e. he walked around from room to room..