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Sherwinkle · Jan 18, 2013, 03:01 PM

I called a breeder in October of 2011 and wanted to put a deposit on a malamute puppy due in the spring of 2012. The breeder said that she also had a litter due in November so I had the choice of which litter I preferred. I talked to my husband and we decided the November litter would be great timing. I sent a $100 deposit to be on the waiting list. Well, there were no puppies in November, the dam was not actually pregnant. There were no litters in the spring; although between December and July there were 5 occasions that she thought one of the females might be in heat or expecting. Each time my hopes of a puppy were raised and then dashed when puppies were not born. In November of this year I received an email saying they had recently bred one of the females and to expect puppies in about 7 weeks. It’s been 9 weeks to date and no puppies or any further information from the breeder. I have not contacted her this time because I just wanted to see how long it would take her to contact me. In the past, I was extremely excited and would ask for updates as time went along. Now I want to just get my money back after too many false hopes. There is no signed contract other than an email stating there is a $100 deposit required to be on the waiting list; it is non-refundable but does go toward the purchase of the pup. I think this is a little ridiculous by now. Does anyone think I have grounds for asking for my deposit back?

joypulv · Jan 18, 2013, 03:16 PM

Probably; just ask. If they say no, then file small claims. If you win, you get the filing fee as part of the award. If you are in different states, you have a problem, although many courts allow for the case to be resolved without appearing in court - IF the defendant agrees to pay.

Have you done online research on the reliability of the breeder?

Sherwinkle · Jan 18, 2013, 03:27 PM

The breeder is in the same state. I researched as much as I could and couldn't find anything negative. Of course website has a great selection of testimonials.
I guess one of my concerns is, if I ask for the deposit back, for the said reasons, does that seem as though I'm backing out of the deal which would indicate I lose the deposit? I had never done this before so I didn't think to ask about time frame. Live and learn.

joypulv · Jan 18, 2013, 04:10 PM

Many courts consider a time frame that was unstated to be no more than a year.
Small claims anyway, where judges have leeway to make judgments without necessarily quoting statutes - I've seen it. This is $100 after all, and I can see you winning this in a heartbeat. A 'deposit' that doesn't result in delivery is no longer considered non-refundable. I would write a firm message to the breeder saying this. If the filing fee is $50 in your state, they stand to lose $150. Don't wimp out on this. For all you know, they are running a scam and all the testimonials are fake. Or if not, they are strapped for cash and are taking more deposits than they have pups, and giving them to the most threatening buyers first.

Alty · Jan 18, 2013, 04:17 PM

I'm not a legal expert, but I have dealt with breeders before. The main issue I see here is that you don't seem to have a fixed date for when you'll get a puppy. In other words, the contract says $100 deposit which goes towards the purchase of a puppy. It doesn't say when you'll get that puppy. If the contract had clearly stated "One hundred dollar deposit for puppy to be born November 2012", and no puppies were born, then I think you'd have a case to get your money back. As it stands, it's a grey area, since she could still fulfill her end of the contract, since there's no set date.

In other words, I agree with Joy. Find out what time frame she has to fulfill her end of the contract. November 2012 was only 2 months ago. You may have to give her at least a year in order to produce a puppy for you to purchase.

Sherwinkle · Jan 18, 2013, 04:29 PM

Actually the initial deposit was given in October of 2011 for a puppy that was due in November of 2011. So it's been 15 months. Still I can see some difficulty since a time frame was not specified.

Alty · Jan 18, 2013, 04:51 PM

Originally Posted by Sherwinkle

Actually the initial deposit was given in October of 2011 for a puppy that was due in November of 2011. So it's been 15 months. Still I can see some difficulty since a time frame was not specified.

So initially you put a deposit on a puppy due in 2012, but she told you she had a litter due in November of 2011?

Sorry, Since you mentioned 2012, I thought you meant November 2012.

If it's been over a year and no puppy, then I would say yes, ask for the deposit back. If she says no, you can take it small claims, and hope that you win.

If you tell me your general location I may be able to help you find a legitimate breeder in your area. I don't need your town, just your state, or province, or other (since this is an international site), and the breed, malamute? I would also urge you to check out your local shelter, or breed specific shelters. You may be able to find a purebred puppy to rescue, instead of going to a breeder. There are breed specific shelters all over the world, all purebred dogs looking for a home, many of them under the age of 2, some even puppies.

joypulv · Jan 18, 2013, 05:28 PM

I would also start some serious research into the reputation of this breeder, since you give no indication of how you found them, or how far away they are. Scams are indeed prevalent. Some people call all the vets in the area of the breeder as a start, but you can also keep googling, and sooner or later blogs appear if there are scammed people.
And I would tell them this too. If you aren't firm they will walk all over you (if they are scamming) and even start telling you they don't like your threatening tone, etc, to get you to back off.

Sherwinkle · Jan 18, 2013, 05:30 PM

That was part my fault. It was apparently harder than I thought to write clearly about a chain of events. When I sent my deposit in October of 2011, I thought her first litter was due in the spring but that's when she told me they were expecting a litter the following month (Nov. 2011). We hadn't planned on getting one quite so quickly but were happy about it.

I've never written on a forum before so I appreciate everyone's responses.

Lucky098 · Jan 18, 2013, 07:52 PM

Do you know if her puppies sell quickly? The reason I ask, even though there are no puppies, people purchase puppies by specific breedings and sometimes they will be sold before they are born. Maybe you are dead last on the waiting list? That also would be worth looking into.

JudyKayTee · Jan 19, 2013, 05:21 AM

Apparently my lengthy answer on the other thread concerning contracts and dog breeding didn't satisfy the OP?

Sherwinkle · Jan 19, 2013, 07:59 AM

Originally Posted by JudyKayTee

Apparently my lengthy answer on the other thread concerning contracts and dog breeding didn't satisfy the OP?

Sorry, after I posted my question on the other thread I saw it was an other one so I thought I had to start a new thread. Forum newbie. Anyway, I just read your response on the other thread. I'll probably just give up on the deposit and find a shelter dog. Thank you!

joypulv · Jan 19, 2013, 08:25 AM

I wish you wouldn't, for the sake of others who might be scammed.
Or tell us who this breeder is, if you don't mind.
One of hundreds of us might know people who know people who live next door...

JudyKayTee · Jan 19, 2013, 12:07 PM

Joy, I've come across this before in the scope of my "job." The way the contract is written is the problem and, yes, there are scammers out there. It is SO important to know the background, the history of the breeder if a person decides to buy from a breeder.

These contracts routinely say that the deposit is on a list of people "eligible" to purchase a puppy from the next litter. I have a male and female, both neutered/spayed. In theory I could hand you a contract and take your deposit on their next litter - you'd be waiting a very long time. Could you prove fraud? In my case (with two neutered dogs), yes. BUT if you are in another State it would cost you more than $100 to get $100.

And we all know how I feel about breeders.

But, yes, this is a scam, including in my area.

The breeder in this case didn't violate the contract - the deposit is to be placed on a list. The OP is on a list!

And to the OP - sorry if I jumped on you. This happens all the time. People don't like one answer so they post again on another Board. You are the exception - and I appreciate the explanation and, again, sorry I jumped on you.

joypulv · Jan 19, 2013, 12:15 PM

Aside from one person taking a breeder to court (I have twice seen a court award a deposit back if it was more than a year old), there is the cumulative reporting to local law enforcement and blogs. Why not stop this?
This breeder might be a grey area scammer who does have pups, but who takes 100 or more deposits for each one, and who counts on a good number of people giving up. 100 x 100 = 10,000, not small change.

Sherwinkle · Jan 19, 2013, 02:10 PM

I appreciate the sincere responses that I've received. I'm a bit conflicted here. I don't feel right in naming the breeder online since I don't think she's a scammer. I visited her kennel and saw the dogs that she has and they seem well taken care of and have had litters in the past. My main question was if anyone felt I had grounds to ask for my deposit back after such a long time with no puppy. My opinion now is that, since there was no time frame determined up front, my deposit keeps me on the waiting list for as long as it takes to get a puppy. Not the best arrangement but one that I can understand now from all the points of view you have all offered.
Thank you all.

JudyKayTee · Jan 19, 2013, 02:12 PM

"Joy," here's the legal hook. The $100 was, as I understand it, the fee to be placed on the waiting list. If/when the OP purchased a puppy, that $100 went toward the purchase. I do not believe it was a legal deposit - it doesn't appear that that is how the contract was written. And, again, the OP was placed on the list - probably not worth $100 but I don't see that the contract was broken.

And Sherwinkle, yes, I agree with you - you are on the waiting list for life!

Alty · Jan 21, 2013, 05:45 PM

Judy made the contract part very clear. I do have to ask, and Judy, you know I'm not a legal expert, but, since the breeder did give a specific date to the OP for a puppy, and it's been over a year since that date, does that help the OP at all?

Maybe court isn't the answer, but surely the OP can at least ask for her deposit back, and hope for the best? If not, then cough it up to experience and either find another breeder or go the rescue route.

Sherwinkle, my offer still stands. If you want a purebred you don't have to get one from a breeder. There are literally thousands of breed specific shelters all over the world, purebred dogs, sometimes even puppies. Unless you yourself are planning to breed, you don't need a show quality dog. You can get a dog in the breed of your choosing at a fraction of the cost you'd pay at a breeder, and you'd be saving a life. If you'd like me to help you find those shelters, I'm more than willing.

Sherwinkle · Jan 21, 2013, 08:11 PM

Thanks for your offer. I'll just keep looking locally. By the way, what is an OP?

Alty · Jan 21, 2013, 08:48 PM

Originally Posted by Sherwinkle

Thanks for your offer. I'll just keep looking locally. By the way, what is an OP?

OP = Original Poster. That's the person that posted the question. :)